Comments on: The Great Debate at Cooper Union Last Night

By: RobertHume

RobertHume — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

"The newspaperobviouslywas the New York Times, in which Judt's op-ed taking Walt/Mearsheimer's side, appeared last April, as I recall, to stunning effect. I say resonant, and damning, because Let's consider the lesson of this story: You can only speak out on this issue if you're Jewish? Oh my god, how did we get here..."

Yes, it is a disgrace that on issues which are existential for all US citizens, specifically including Christians, that we cannot speak out without looking over our shoulders.

We look to lose the great achievements of our civilization, our cities, in mushroom clouds and we are supposed to be silent? We see millions dead and we are supposed to remain silent so that the settlements can expand?

It seems so even as we speak; the Iran war is on the horizon.

By: Joe Wu

Joe Wu — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Repeating my concern that blaming a lobby group for the consequences of their successes.
Sure its useful to ID the elephants in a room – just dont blame them for being elephants – if you dont want elephants in the room then do things different.

By: Realist

Realist — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Thanks for the report – the first I have found so far. I hope it will be followed by many more. Was C-SPAN (or someone else) taping the debate?

By: simkhe

simkhe — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

The debate was taped by the radio program "Beyond the Pale: Radical Jewish Culture and Politics," the WBAI program that airs every Sunday from noon to 1pm and that has been bringing critical views on this issue (among many other things)to the airwaves for more than 10 years now. Watch their website for info on when it will be aired.

By: thewiseking

thewiseking — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Has anyone ever actually attended one of these Cooper Union "debates"?
If you think that upper west siders are ugly, you have got to see this. The room is filled with angry smelly old leftists with an admixture of paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theorists. The stage is populated with puffed up pseudo-intellectuals who prattle on endlessly and incoherently. It is actually amusing, in a sad sort of way, when one of the "debaters" engages one of the under-medicated patients in the crowd, not realizing one is pissing in the wind when arguing with a psychotic. If someone who is actually cogent ever takes the stage, which is a rarity, they quickly realize they have erred badly. After all, one must never wrestle with a pig since you will both get filthy and the pig will enjoy it.

By: APS

APS — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

"Rashid Khalidi was the emotional life of the debate."....

And therein lied the problem with the Khalidi, Mearsheimer and Walt side of the "debate". It was all emotion, without logic or dispassionate objectivity.

As apologists for CAIR and Islamic terror organizations, I can see why Mearsheimer & Walt would find it convenient to scapegoat Israel, and blame her for 9/11 and our problems with Muslims,etc.

But the objective reality is - Islam is on a worldwide killing spree, and every fair minded person knows it. From Darfur to Thailand to the Phillipines to Beslan to the Kashmir, London, Madrid, Bali, New York, the Danish cartoon Jihad, the Pope, the fact is there is a problem with Islamic society and blaming the victims of their terror just doesn't cut it anymore. Just look at the Shiite and Sunnis murdering each other in Iraq. Sadly, Mohammed's followers can't even get along with each other.

Of course the terrorists hate Jews and Israel; which only proves that there is a strong correlation between being criminally insane and being anti-semitic. But this is something we already knew, and in fact its proven regularly by the pro-Islamist commenters on this very blog.

By: Peter H

Peter H — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Sounds like a interesting debate. I hope to get a watch to watch (listen) to it.

By: thewiseking

thewiseking — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

if i offended anyone out here, i am sorry.
have a happy new year!

By: Mr_dude

Mr_dude — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Walt & Mearsheimer admits that this is not their specialty, instead being american firster realists. Massing would have made a better debating member, but how can you have a debate without one of the men that brought the whole issue into light.

Interesting group of people supporting the "what lobby?" side, being members of the lobby they admit is useless.

Ross also said that if Gore was elected, they would not have invaded Iraq. That is debatable since Gore was one of the biggest Islamophobe in the Democratic party. And it was that whole Islamophobia from the Democratic party that practically abandoned this minority group, which the Republicans went to court, which is how the Democrats lost places like Florida.

By: Tom Als

Tom Als — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Yet: No one could leave the hall unconvinced that there is an Israel lobby.

So? There's an Environmental lobby, a Womens lobby, a Muslim lobby, a Fat lobby. What's your point?

Ooooooohhhhhhh… I get it. When Jews lobby, they must be trying to manipulate government. When everyone else does it, it's a sign of a healthy democracy.