Comments on: I Witness the Israel Lobby in Action http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:31:24 +0000 hourly 1 By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73922 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73922 <p>Well, ZOA don't want to let any not revisionist tendencies gain any traction. They are a revisionist partisan outfit. That's nothing new.</p> Well, ZOA don't want to let any not revisionist tendencies gain any traction. They are a revisionist partisan outfit. That's nothing new.

]]> By: LanceThruster http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73923 LanceThruster Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73923 <p>It's amazing to me that in the face of such disciplined gatekeeping here, it is not recognized by most as happening elsewhere, and on a far larger scale.</p> It's amazing to me that in the face of such disciplined gatekeeping here, it is not recognized by most as happening elsewhere, and on a far larger scale.

]]> By: dave http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73924 dave Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73924 <p><i>"It achieved something important," one of the Jewish students said. "People perceive pro-Israel groups as monolithic. They think that we are not able to take responsibility for the bad things that happen."</i></p> <p>If only he had said it was important because what is being done in Palestine is a crime. If only he had said it was important American Jews are, as a group, responsible for the crime. As it is, he appears to think it's important because it promotes a flattering image of Jews.</p> <p>This is just more of the judeocentric gatekeeping that has poisoned the Left in this country.</p> "It achieved something important," one of the Jewish students said. "People perceive pro-Israel groups as monolithic. They think that we are not able to take responsibility for the bad things that happen."

If only he had said it was important because what is being done in Palestine is a crime. If only he had said it was important American Jews are, as a group, responsible for the crime. As it is, he appears to think it's important because it promotes a flattering image of Jews.

This is just more of the judeocentric gatekeeping that has poisoned the Left in this country.

]]> By: MJ Rosenberg http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73925 MJ Rosenberg Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73925 <p>Great piece, Phil.<br /> Funny how the self-proclaimed advocates of Israel do not understand that the best hasbara (information/propaganda) for Israel is by exposing Americans to the best Israelis, the most thoughtful -- which means opponents of the occupation. The Jewish right think it advances Israel's cause by presenting the Ugly Israel, the defenders of the occupation, the racists, the Carter-bashers, the Israel-is-always-right crowd. <br /> In fact, a truly successful pro-Israel strategy would only showcase the good Israel, not the thugs. <br /> I think an event like this is truly significant because the Jewish kids who attend will, perhaps, join forces with those Israelis, American Jews, Palestinians and others who are determined to achieve a fair, just two-state agreement.<br /> The ZOA and others of their ilk do more damage to Israel than to anyone else. But they will never understand that. Hate overpowers rational thought.</p> Great piece, Phil.
Funny how the self-proclaimed advocates of Israel do not understand that the best hasbara (information/propaganda) for Israel is by exposing Americans to the best Israelis, the most thoughtful — which means opponents of the occupation. The Jewish right think it advances Israel's cause by presenting the Ugly Israel, the defenders of the occupation, the racists, the Carter-bashers, the Israel-is-always-right crowd.
In fact, a truly successful pro-Israel strategy would only showcase the good Israel, not the thugs.
I think an event like this is truly significant because the Jewish kids who attend will, perhaps, join forces with those Israelis, American Jews, Palestinians and others who are determined to achieve a fair, just two-state agreement.
The ZOA and others of their ilk do more damage to Israel than to anyone else. But they will never understand that. Hate overpowers rational thought.

]]> By: lester http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73926 lester Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73926 <p>this type of censorship is going to lead to people giving up on israel and abandoning it. the argument being: if muslims are as horrible as the zionists say, the jews should leave. that's the direction it's going in the US. ms glaser is the one playing with fire</p> this type of censorship is going to lead to people giving up on israel and abandoning it. the argument being: if muslims are as horrible as the zionists say, the jews should leave. that's the direction it's going in the US. ms glaser is the one playing with fire

]]> By: p isaac http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73927 p isaac Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73927 <p>The premises of Weiss' column are false. It is not dangerous, inconvenient or difficult to criticize Israel or Israeli policies. It is done all the time. It is the default position on campus. It is common in the Jewish community. What have been the adverse consequences to any of the critics? <br /> What Weiss fails to do is address the real problem. How does a democratic society maintain its reasonable security when faced with a neighboring population implacably hostile to its existence: but to which the democratic society is militarily dominant? What is the tolerable level of domestic disruption,inconvenience and casualties in the moral and political interests in maintaining the comfort or pride of the hostile neighbors? <br /> It isn't as though the Israelis engage in this gratuitously. They conduct their policies in order to physically safeguard the Israeli population as best as they can consistent with not inflicting counterproductive or gratuitous violence or sanctions on their hostile neighbors.<br /> Doves in this process always contend the Israeli actions are the issue; but short of disappearing there has been nothing the Israelis have been able to do that has ever been theoretically acceptable to the Arab states around it.<br /> The "lost opportunities " always turn out to be partial or conditional or preconditions or insincere. <br /> That doesn't absolve the Israelis of the responsibility to try to maintain a morally defensible defense policy; but it does place in context the circumstances in which their practical choices must be made.</p> The premises of Weiss' column are false. It is not dangerous, inconvenient or difficult to criticize Israel or Israeli policies. It is done all the time. It is the default position on campus. It is common in the Jewish community. What have been the adverse consequences to any of the critics?
What Weiss fails to do is address the real problem. How does a democratic society maintain its reasonable security when faced with a neighboring population implacably hostile to its existence: but to which the democratic society is militarily dominant? What is the tolerable level of domestic disruption,inconvenience and casualties in the moral and political interests in maintaining the comfort or pride of the hostile neighbors?
It isn't as though the Israelis engage in this gratuitously. They conduct their policies in order to physically safeguard the Israeli population as best as they can consistent with not inflicting counterproductive or gratuitous violence or sanctions on their hostile neighbors.
Doves in this process always contend the Israeli actions are the issue; but short of disappearing there has been nothing the Israelis have been able to do that has ever been theoretically acceptable to the Arab states around it.
The "lost opportunities " always turn out to be partial or conditional or preconditions or insincere.
That doesn't absolve the Israelis of the responsibility to try to maintain a morally defensible defense policy; but it does place in context the circumstances in which their practical choices must be made.

]]> By: lester http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73928 lester Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73928 <p>p isaac- your boring pre-written "post" is refuted by the "playing with fire" remark in the piece you didn't read</p> p isaac- your boring pre-written "post" is refuted by the "playing with fire" remark in the piece you didn't read

]]> By: dave http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73929 dave Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73929 <p><i>"Hate overpowers rational thought."</i></p> <p>BTW, although I think most people can sense the hatred energizing the rabid Israel supporters ("Bill Pearlman" springs to mind), I'm curious just where you think this hate is focused. Is it Muslims they hate? Is it the Jewish-American students who have a different strategy for normalizing Israel's image? Is it the American students who attend events like this and start asking questions? Is it American society for permitting their schools to voice these points of view? Or is it a broader hatred of all Gentiles?</p> <p>If you divide the world into us and them, and don't trust them enough to let them hear the truth, what is the right word for that attitude?</p> "Hate overpowers rational thought."

BTW, although I think most people can sense the hatred energizing the rabid Israel supporters ("Bill Pearlman" springs to mind), I'm curious just where you think this hate is focused. Is it Muslims they hate? Is it the Jewish-American students who have a different strategy for normalizing Israel's image? Is it the American students who attend events like this and start asking questions? Is it American society for permitting their schools to voice these points of view? Or is it a broader hatred of all Gentiles?

If you divide the world into us and them, and don't trust them enough to let them hear the truth, what is the right word for that attitude?

]]> By: teddy http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73930 teddy Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73930 <p>How many anti-Israel "progressives" does it take to screw in a lightbulb? It doesn't matter, they'll never see the light anyway.</p> How many anti-Israel "progressives" does it take to screw in a lightbulb? It doesn't matter, they'll never see the light anyway.

]]> By: trouvere http://mondoweiss.net/2006/12/i_witness_the_i.html/comment-page-1#comment-73931 trouvere Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/12/26/i_witness_the_i.html#comment-73931 <p>p isaac: "They conduct their policies in order to physically safeguard the Israeli population as best as they can consistent with not inflicting counterproductive or gratuitous violence or sanctions on their hostile neighbors."</p> <p>today's headline: "Israel has approved a new settlement in the West Bank to house former Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip."</p> p isaac: "They conduct their policies in order to physically safeguard the Israeli population as best as they can consistent with not inflicting counterproductive or gratuitous violence or sanctions on their hostile neighbors."

today's headline: "Israel has approved a new settlement in the West Bank to house former Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip."

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