The paddling Jimmy Carter is receiving for making criticisms of Israel that are common in Israel demonstrates a law of the Israel conversation: It is one thing for Jews to criticize Israel, but it’s not O.K. for non-Jews to do so. This law is demonstrated by the Hillel chapters I wrote about the other day: it’s OK for Jewish groups to host the Israel veterans Breaking the Silence, but those same groups will criticize Palestinian organizations when they sponsor the very same program—as if the Arab groups are doing so as the first step toward a pogrom.
Jews feel that they can claim this exclusivity as a (historically) persecuted people. In the same way it is O.K. for blacks to use the n-word, but Michael Richards ended his career by using the word.
The law came to mind after I got a small book published by the American Jewish Historical Society, called “Essays on American Zionism.” (1980). There is an essay in this book by Abba Eban, the famously eloquent Israeli Ambassador to the U.N.
Eban’s essay is about Jewish influence on the White House. “Influence” is his word, so is “pressure.” In fact Eban describes as absolutely key to Israel’s emergence the very thing that the Times recently dismissed as an antisemitic delusion—Jewish influence on Harry Truman.
Some statements from Eban:
—”Public influence” by the American Zionist movement leader Rabbi Abba Silver “would have failed if other avenues of pressure and influence had not been brought to bear on presidential decisions.”
—Before the 1944 Democratic Convention, Jewish leaders were told that Senator Harry Truman needed $25,000 for publicity so that he might replace FDR’s then-VP Henry Wallace. “I told Boyle that I didn’t know Senator Truman,’ [Zionist and manufacturer Dewey] Stone later recalled, ‘but… if he wanted me to take a gamble I would make the $25,000 available’… When President Roosevelt died in 1945 Harry S. Truman succeeded him and Dewey Stone was among the few to whom he owed a political debt.”
—In ’48, Truman feared losing, and Stone raised crucial funds, along with his friend Abe Feinberg, another leading Zionist; and they “thereafter had fairly free access to Truman in times of crisis.”
—Also in ’48, when Truman complained of pressure from Zionists, Jewish leaders arranged for the visit to the White House by Truman’s former haberdashery partner Eddie Jacobson in order that Jacobson might become “a lever of influence in the central international predicament of the age.”
—The “need for Israel’s friends to have a permanent link with the White House arose again” in the case of JFK. Stone and other friends of Israel did not trust JFK because of his father’s equivocal views of Nazi Germany. In Aug. 1960, Kennedy came to Feinberg’s apartment at the Hotel Pierre and met with “a group of influential Jewish leaders [who] interrogated Kennedy stringently on matters affecting Jews and Israel.” As a result, Stone had a “close, personal relationship” with Kennedy till he died.
—Indeed, “without the support of American Jewry” Israel would not have been able to emerge from “vulnerability and weakness into sovereignty.” This “extraordinary solidarity and kinship… enlarged Israel’s power beyond the limited dimensions of its space and size.”
God bless him, Eban is merely describing the workings of part of the Israel lobby. For statements less emphatic than Eban’s, Walt and Mearsheimer have been described in the press as antisemites. Keep in mind that one of the key things these influencers were trying to influence was Truman’s decision to support the formation of a Jewish state in ’47 and recognize Israel in ’48. If he hadn’t done so, English control of Mandatory Palestine would have gone over to a United Nations trusteeship of the territory. You have to wonder if a more deliberate process might not have worked out better.
Philip Weiss would be a lot more convincing if he actually dealt with the substance of the harsh criticism Carter has received, starting with that of Kenneth Stein, Carter's former associate and co-author. Weiss' version of the "conversation" is that all criticism of Israel's opponents is out of bounds, no better than what he charges the "Israel Lobby" with.
As usual, douche bag Weiss makes no sense- Eban and Carter are talking about completely different topics.
Will somebody please turn this broken record off…Does the Observer realize what junk they have on their website??? It''s the same crap over and over and over…
Phil, in an absolutely brilliant piece of investigative reporting, and in exhibiting courage in bucking the LOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, that dwarfs the guys that hit the beach at Iwo Jima or flew the torpedo planes at Midway, because after all going up against the LOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is something that takes more courage than that. You've got us, we bought Truman, Kennedy, and pretty much every president going back to Washington. Actually Carter himself is a Zion/Nazi. Giving us cover to continue with our neferious activities. Behind the scenes of course.
I don't believe Kenneth Stein has given any "substance" to his criticisms of President Carter. He said the specifics will come later. So how can we — yet — judge his views?
Fear of an open discussion of Israel's bloody suppression of the Palestians must force Zionists to hysteria and personal attacks on those who dare to be critical. Can't those who contribute comments bring themselves to address the substance of issues at hand? Perhaps these pathetic comments are a product of the the Zionist Megaphone Project to flood webpages with personal attacks.
Cicero:
You got us man. You see the e-mails go out from Jerusalem and everything swings into action. Personally I'm going to reccomend that we evict you from your home. We can do it you know. After ethnic cleansing the Palestinians, kiling Christ, and not to mention the black plauge your nothing, Now, I know the "nakba" is the worst thing that's ever happened to any people, anytime anywhere. And the average Palestinian had a marble house, 40 acres of oive trees and that the whole area was paradise until the accrused Jews took over but let me ask you this scumbag. If the Palestinians are being so bloodily oppressed how did Arafats widow end up with 500 million dollars in a swiss bank account. How come their population is growing in leaps and bounds, and how come whenever I see pictures of Palestinians nobody seems like their starving, far from it. If they were then perhaps they shouldn't have wrecked the green houses that they took over in the Gaza strip. Nobody ever talks about the total inability of Arabs to construct a civilized society, where is it. Where are the scientific advances, the human rights, they can'e make anything, they can't do anything except complain. It's boring already.
Phil,
Please change subject.
Eyrrick reforms for Muslims.
Simply, reforms for Muslims.
Ijtihad to sweep Islamic nations.
Assistance to the suffering
minorities in Iran, Iraq,
Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia,
Malaysia..
Moderating the proLifers of America ..etc.
Israel is not one monolithic bock.
Many intelligent and
non-apartheid people live there, too.
Plenty of choices.
Try to knock sense into the
American modern and stone-age
Orthodoxies.
From the Forward:
A prominent Middle East scholar, Kenneth W. Stein, announced his resignation as a fellow of Emory University’s Carter Center, in response to former President Jimmy Carter’s new book, “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.”
Stein did not give the book’s title in the e-mail announcing his resignation, saying that it was “a title too inflammatory to even print.”
Carter’s book, published last month, is based on his years as a peace negotiator, including his role in the 1978 Camp David peace accords between Israel and Egypt. The book has drawn widespread criticism from Jewish activists.
Stein was the first executive director of the Carter Center, and he is now the director of the university’s Middle East Research Program and of the Emory Institute for the Study of Modern Israel. Carter and Stein co-wrote a book in 1984 called “The Blood of Abraham.” Stein said he was present in the room, as well, during a number of events recollected in Carter’s new book, and his notes show “little similarity to points claimed in the book. Being a former President does not give one a unique privilege to invent information”
Stein characterized Carter’s book as “replete with factual errors, copied materials not cited, superficialities, glaring omissions, and simply invented segments.”
In his e-mail, Stein said that he plans in the future to more fully rebut the errors that he found in Carter’s book.
Stein said that in his early years working with Carter, “we carefully avoided polemics or special pleading. This book does not hold to those standards. My continued association with the Center leaves the impression that I am sanctioning a series of egregious errors and polemical conclusions which appeared in President Carter’s book.”
Stein will continue in his other academic positions at Emory.
One has to distinguish two aspects of the current attempts at zionist damage control.
One is portentious language, to terrify the non-Jewish rubes.
The other is coded threats to Jews who get out of line, which only the latter will understand.
Unless of course some of the recipients of these coded threats blow the whistle, by decoding them, in the newspapers the non-Jewish rubes read.
Thank you Jimmy Carter and Phil for taking Israel off the pedastal. It is long past time that Israel, the top military power in that area and a nuclear power also, should be subject to criticism. Why should Arabs have to pay for what the Nazis did? Cut out a piece of Texas and form a Jewish state if you must. There is a puddle of Jews in a sea of Arabs and you anticipate no problems. Get real. Israel trades artillary shells for bottle rockets and continues to appropriate more Palestinian land, then wonders why it has lost the moral high ground in the Middle East. Ten times the number of Palestinians have been killed as Jews and the numbers keep getting more lopsided. Please open your eyes, there can be no good guys in a cycle of violence.
Yes, decent people don't know it, but the threats to Phill are based in a "law" called Din Moser. Take a look at what the Jewish Enciclopedia tells about the Moserim.
The hysteric, over-the-top comments you've received are wonderful for saving with this file together, for several classroom teaching purposes. And we do use these, believe me.
The comments, the nature of their language and intentions, just hammer the point home as to why we Americans are tired of Israel, the very real Israeli lobby money forcing itself as the sole center of our political rights.
There has been NO comparable historical situation with a living President actually being called out for treason, because he dares to SPEAK ON A SUBJECT! And he disagrees with the power of the Israel lobby.
There has been no comparable situation of a living President who actually MANAGED a peace initiative between Israel and Palestine, to be "educated" on that subject decades later.
There has been also no such comparable situation to a living President having to introduce in a LA times editorial, the reality of what we are not getting in most of the press – the fact there are few Universities inviting him in, he is being blacklisted. A Nobel Prize really goes far nowadays, unless you speak against the reality of what is going on in regards to Israel and Apartheid Policies.
Imagine, we Americans are asked to understand he FIRST should be considered as wrong, as anti-semite, before even beginning a dialog on his book, his epxeriences, and his FACTS – that is, FACTS – that he has brought together.
This is our President who actually managed a peace initiative. Right? Not Bush, Cheney and the Halliburton gang – those guys are supposedly not bothersome to the Israeli lobby, and to Universities who won't invite Carter now. Sure, makes sense.
While I don't expect New York State, with some billion dollars yearly trade with Israel (its second or largest trading partner) to be on Carter's side and invite him to any university soon. But that's always been the point (Hillary…) there are other states, and there are many, many other Americans.
People forget Carter brought faith into the White House. It was an issue back then, and now, amidst all these Wolfowitz neo-cons, the Israeli and Born-Again Old Testament thumpers waiting for Armageddon to get to their selfish view of a rightful place, while Carter's actions since decades, have shown what faith has to do with social issues and humanity.
Finally, one sees a long term plan of culture in the U.S. to be controlled and harassment as the method. But it goes deeper politically speaking. The Kennedy Center, our nations representative cultural center, is not a political vehicle right? So it is said. It is an AMERICAN CULTURAL CENTER. It doesn't allow any corporate sponsor to place their logos and so on on it, and doesn't divide itself up into spaces for special interest groups and so on.
EXCEPT…there have been only two nations who have passed by the laws, found finances and apparently enough weight to get themselves a lounge for entertaining and lobbying in the hallowed AMERICAN, NATIONAL CULTURAL halls, just down the street from the White house: China and Israel.
I suppose that is just the nature of the situation, the sole American arts and cultural center in the nations capital, with its laws, is being officially used with lounge-offices, for China, Israeli lobby. Israel, who hasn't enough money, can afford that on equal with China…
What do you think the Capital is doing.
Hey hey hey, here comes fat Albert. Look, I don't pretend to know what you teach in your undoubedly Saudi financed Madressa but nobody has accused Carter of being treasonous. Just an antisemitic asshole. Which he is. Two other things, he "brilliantly" mishandled the Iranian situation to such an extent that they've gone from being an ally to being a hostile enemy soon to be nuclear. And second, scumbag. The credit for the camp david accords go to Anwar Sadat and Menachem Begin. Not Jimmy Carter. Begin is gone from natural causes, and oh yah, Sadat was guned down by the Moslem brotherhood. Has far as the Kennedy center goes, what in Gods name are your talking about?
When Bill gets his Nobel Prize, then he can call Jimmy Carter names. Until that time, he might consider lightening up on the insipid tirades.
Nobody likes a elitists or bigots.
Fred:
Jimmy Carter got a noble peace prize because the committee thought it was a great way to say fuck you to President Bush. Not because he did anything constructive. And I wouldn't be too proud of geting anything that Yasir Arafat got. And "insipid tirades" ouch I'm wounded by your slahing wit
I've commented quite a bit on the Israeli-Palestinian problem going back to the 70's. At that time some folks on the internet were suspicious that I was an anti-Semite because I was a Christian, not Jewish, but I think they changed their minds.
Since then, on the internet, I've not been so accused or harrassed … much … But I do think that many Christians are afraid of that; and they also feel, or used to feel, that they do not have a dog in that fight.
But we do have a dog in that fight. Nuclear detonations in our cities, on top of past oil embargos and 9/11. So Christians must get involved. We need many more Christians as brave as Carter. There are certainly few persons in the world with Carter's experience, as pointed out here.
And if you read his book, his historical and continuing experiences in the occupied teerritories, as well as friendships and acquaintences and interviews at the highest levels in both Israel and Palestine evoke wonder and unequaled by anyone on earth, I suspect.
Mr. Hume, I agree, Americans do have a dog in this fight, and it is absolutely imperative that this debate take place. It is long overdue.
Bin Laden said that the oppression of the Palestinians by Israel was a cause motivating his terrorist attacks. It probably was not true, but the point is, he thought he could get brownie points in the Muslim world by saying it. Clearly much of the anti-American sentiment in the middle east has to do with American foreign policy in the region, and in particular, America's support for Israeli policies with respect to the Palestinians.
Jimmy Carter is a great humanitarian, and the suggestion that he is anti anyone for their membership in a religious group is simply contemptable.
Wow Bill…You're a real genius there. I'm sure Sadat and Begin would've naturally decided to come to a presidential retreat in rural Virginia and then sign a historic treaty even without someone pushing them to do so. By the way love your Madrasah comment, real Fox News-like over there (Way to go Shepard Smith!)
The problem with Carter is not that he is criticizing Israel, the problem is that his book is RIDDLED WITH FAIRY TALES. There are so many inaccurate claims, so many one-sided and DISHONEST portrayals of what he describes as "FACTS", and so many CONTRADICTIONS, that any professional editor in any reputable newspaper would have sent his "stuff" straight to the trash.
Someone has claimed that it seems like the book must have been written by someone at the ministry of propaganda in Damascus, using Carter's name on it.
Or maybe Carter is becoming SENILE?
Or maybe he's been always a FOOL?
And one more thing: Please, be HONEST and take some time to actually LEARN THE FACTS.
It's very convenient to blame Israel for the "occupation" as if it is the problem in the Middle East… As if BEFORE THE OCCUPATION, before June of 1967 — the Arabs were not in the business of KILLING JEWS…
Arabs' racism and barbaric violence (that started in 1929 and never stopped for ONE SINGLE DAY since) is the CAUSE for the 1967 Six-Day War and the "occupation"… It's not the "occupation" that caused Arabs' hatred against Jews….
And it's not the "occupation" that sent Arabs/Muslims to attack us on 9/11, or bomb the London subways, or Madrid trains, or torch 200 yungsters in a Bali night club, or attack civilians in a Philippines market, or German tourist in Cairo, or fellow Arabs in Amman.
Blaming it all on "the Jews" and Ignoring Arab Terrorism as the most MAJOR factor in the Mideast conflict – is just utterly dishonest.
…Which is what Carter does, in so many words…
Amik, I'm betting you haven't read the book, or I think you would have provided concrete examples of where Jimmy Carter "made up stuff".
I haven't read the book either, but I've ordered it.
Jimmy Carter has been on several TV news programs, in the course of his book tour, and he doesn't sound the least bit senile, or foolish, to me.
I think it's time to ask Jewish Americans "Are you an American first? Or are you a Jew first?" Because it's starting to look like that's a conflict of interest for many American Jews.
I can understand the need for a Jewish homeland. But I can't understand the abandonment of the security of USA residents to the interests of the Israelis, by American Jews. That doesn't sit well with me.
And apparently it doesn't sit well with Jimmy Carter, either. I would suggest you find out what he stands for by visiting the Carter Center's official website.
Ah yes Deborah, the old dual loyalty charge. And I bet some of your best friends are Jewish. First, Jews have been in tremendous plus to America in every field of endeavor, including the miliatary and if you dont think so I'd invite you to visit the Jewish War Veterans Museum in Washington. Second, when someone is obsessively focused on Israel to the exclusion of every other issue in the world, which Jimmy Carter and Phil Weiss are then yes I would call them anti-semitic. I'll give you an example, we lost 50,000 men in Korea. and we still have 30,000+ men there whose only function is to be killed in the first hours in order to draw us into the war. This is for a country that has a major trade surplus with us and is generally anti American. Yet that doesn't bother you. We have men in 100+ countries and are the only thing standing between the gulf emirates and the Shia hordes. Yet the only thing that people like you see is the "crimes" of a people that have been shit on for 3500 years in the most horrific ways possible. And you take the side of Islamic fundamentalists with everything that that entails. If the Israelis really wanted to crack down and cleanse the land of Palestinians, ( which by the way menat Jews before 1948 ) don't you think they would have done it. And if the militaryy balance was reversed do you seriously think that there would be a Jew left alive in the region. The question is not Israel vs. America. It's whether your on Israel's side or Hamas's side. And you sweetheart are on the side of Hamas and Hezbollah with everything that entails. Even though has a women and presumably someone with liberal sensabiities you should be on Israel's side. Yet your not. And the only explanation for that is an intrinsic hatred for Jews. At least be honest about it. And yes you can be born Jewish, ie Phil Weiss and hate Jews. It's called being an apsikoros and has a long history.
"I think it's time to ask Jewish Americans "Are you an American first? Or are you a Jew first?" Because it's starting to look like that's a conflict of interest for many American Jews."
Also: "Apartheid"??? Just reading the book's NAME is a clear indication of Carter's biased — but mostly FRIVOLOUS approach to the Mideast conflict.
What "Apartheid"? This is another CHEAP buzz word that the Arab propaganda machine keeps SELLING to the weak minded and the ignorant.
They also like another buzz word: "Nazis" when describing Israelis… NEVER MIND THAT THE ARABS WERE HITLER'S BEST ALLIES IN THE 40S…
Intereting that for the first 20 years of Israeli occupation in the Gaza and West Bank — nobody has used the word "Apartheid"… Only after the violence began, in late 1987, and escalated to a massive surge of deadly terror attacks, when Israelis had to DEFEND themselves, creating road blocks, building fences and barriers, hunting the killers and clamping down on the terror infrastructure — did the Arab propaganda start using the "Apartheid" buzz word…. And idiots like Carter swallow it.
I tell you, the Goebels in Damascus, Teheran and Ramallah are SMILING with much CYNICISM at the stupidity of tose GULLIBLES (like Carter) who swallow their junk.
"We have men in 100+ countries and are the only thing standing between the gulf emirates and the Shia hordes." says Pearlman.
Typical neocon armchair warrior terminology and delusions of grandeur. People like Pearlman are the real "free riders" in the political ethics sense : the people who wreck all equitable dealing because it doesn't give them an extension of their free ride.
Rowan:
I know your a national socialist and you feel bad about missing those great old days, invading Poland and rounding up Jews but what exactly are you talking about. Are there not Shia hordes and are we not the only defense between them and the oil producing gulf emirates.
Amik, Carter has explained that the title of his book is intended to be provocative, he wants to provoke a debate within America. He has also explained that the "Apartheid" is not in Israel, it is in the Palestinian's land. But it is imposed by Israelis.
The Israeli government was able to dismantle a couple of the settlements, which proves that it can, so why stop there?
Maybe you should read the book before you trash it?
Mr Pearlman, I am focusing on a single issue here, and the only side I'm taking is America's side. I would like to see a resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, because it is my understanding that much of the anti-American sentiment in the middle east is due to that ongoing situation, coupled with America's perceived support of Israeli policies regarding the Palestinians.
Just because there may be many more issues to resolve does not mean that nothing should be done about this one.
Amik and Pearlman,
Holocaust survivors have repeatedly castigated comparisons to Nazism being used against Israel's foes. It may be a nasty little propaganda trick you lazy, brainwashed activists like to use all the time since you don't bother to study actual history, but it is an utter disgrace and gravely offensive to keep throwing such nonsense accusations against not just foes of Israel but now, even against reasonable people who dare criticize Israel.
If you think that shamelessly attacking pretty much everyone with the nazi libel benefits Israel, think again you ignorant morons.
There is nothing that pleases the real anti-Semites more than having you morons crying wolf ALL the time, calling even Carter an anti-Semite! Or Tutu and Mandela, who yes, have called Israel an apartheid state. Nothing will please the real anti-Semites more than more flattenings of whole countries as reprisals for the kidnapping of a couple of soldiers, more Beit-Hanoun artillery mistakes, more theft of Palestinian PRIVATE land, more fanatics like Meir Kahane and Lieberman, who will soon be calling the shots.
If I didn't know for a fact that you guys are brainwashed simpletons I would be wondering whether you are working for the real neo-nazis.
Just as many people in the US are starting to wonder whether the neo-cons actually work for Iran, since their policies have made Iran a superpower already, and for Al-Qaida too, since their policies have created more recruits than Osama could have ever imagined, plus pretty soon a new failed state to operate from!
Congratulations! Maybe the evangelicals who support you Eretz Israel fanatics and the neo-cons while waiting for Armageddon are really on to something. They are the only friends you are left with while more than 150 countries continuously vote against Israel's policies.
Oh, wait. You also have the support of the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru and Palau! No wonder in the National Brands Index, Israel ranks worst by far.
Way to go! Keep it up, you are doing a GREAT job.
Bill, first off learn to have an intelligent conversation…STOP using the term "Shia hordes", because the Iranians, quite honestly, are not even half as threatening as the Huns or other hordes such as Saddam his Baathists or Rowan and his 'national socialists' (ie just look at their economy, end of arguement). Secondly to reiterate the point that Deborah was trying to make,
it is definitely time that we start pressuring Israel to push for peace, instead of letting them go willy-nilly with their foreign policy. Yeah, I know that Israel's policies are only one of the handful of causes for international terrorism, but it is still nevertheless a very important and symbolic reason many hate US, which gives Israel $2 billion annually to fund their wars.
Don't you think we should at least pause to think about how much we've spoiled Israel with war funding, which Carter has done, and actually make them think twice about their policies? (I know you don't, but hey its just a rhetorical question to anyone out there)
First of all ladies an gentlemen, Rowan Berkely is a self described national socialist, ie nazi. And yes, Jimmy Carter is ant-semitic. When you focus totally on the supposed "war crimes" of Israel to the exclusion of anybody else doing anything else, yes that is anti-semitic, what else would you call it. Nobody seems to have any problem with aide to Egypt, Jordan, South Korea, or to be perfectly frank all the money and men we've spent saving Moslems, Kuwait Bosnia, and else where, along with 60 yrs of Nato. When you view the Jews as the souce of all the evil, either regionally or around the world, yes, that's antisemitism. Lastly, Enoch, Hamas has explicitly said no recognition, no negotiation under any circumstances and the war goes on until Israel is exterminated. Your imposing your western outlook on a situation where it doesn't apply. It sounds pretty racist to me. So, let me put a question to you and everybody else. Where is the Arab leaders who are offering an ironclad peace and have the power to make it stick. Like Diogenes, find me the Arabs, in charge that want peace. They don't exist. And that's totally leaving aside the Iranians.
Your either on Israel's side or your on the side of jihad. There is no other choice and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend other wise.
Pearlman,
It is intellectually dishonest to present yourself, a bigot who thinks Arabs are animals, as some kind of thoughtful moderate who would like peace.
The truth is you don't want Israel to make peace until the Biblical Greater Israel fantasy is achieved through more settlements and wars.
Supporting that makes you an extremist and an enemy of peace.
You admire Lieberman whose program is to expel all Palestinians and even a great number of Israeli Arab citizens.
That's called ethnic cleansing and you are for it.
You have repeatedly called Arabs animals.
That makes you a racist.
You also continuously and shamelessly keep insulting people, calling them anti-Semites because they beg to differ.
That makes you an ignorant moron.
And your "Your [sic] either on Israel's side or your [sic] on the side of jihad" nonsense assumes that people who read this blog can't differentiate between Lieberman's Israel and Rabin's Israel policies. And that when the majority of Israelis support the dismantlement of settlements and talking to Hamas.
That makes you a tricky little bastard who tries to present your extremist preferences and Israel as one, making everybody else, including Israel's majority, anti-Semites.
As your Hasbara manual declares, when out of your depth and when exposed as a bigot, it's better to leave quietly. If not, I promise I will be posting some VERY embarrassing stuff, including Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum's anti-Zionist polemics.
Enough said.
Alan:
Wow, racist, moron, and idiot. I'm wounded by your slahing rhetoric. Personally I think the Satmars are idiots but put Teitelbaums entire writings up. I don't care. What I'm asking for is some sign of Arab willingness to make peace, any sign. And let me spell it out for you. HAMAS DOESN'T WANT TO TALK. They're very clear about it. Are you that paternalistic about the Arabs that you don't take them at their word? I actually respect their willingness to say exactly what their goal is.
The choice is between a liberal western democracy that has been under the gun since day one. Or Islamic fundamentalists with everything that entails. What possible reason would Israel have to withdraw from the mountain ridge that overlooks the coastal plane after the experiences with Gaza and Southern Lebanon. They make an alliance with Iran, put rockets up there and the entire country becomes untenable. I don't want that to happen, you do. Be honest about.
Oh, and by the way the Prime minister of Israel is Ehud Olmert and the chief party in the coalition is Kadima. And all Liberman wants to do is redraw the borders and incorparate has many Jews has possible and exclude has many Arabs as possible. Not moving anybody out of their houses. I would think that the Arabs who are presently in israel would be panting to exchange their Israeli citizenship for Palestinian citizenship. I would think that being out from under the Zionist jackboot and be ruled by Hamas and Islamic Jihad would be something they want, why on earth wouldn't they.
If I didn't know for a fact that you guys are brainwashed simpletons I would be wondering whether you are working for the real neo-nazis.
Alan, you are the real simpleton here. The guys you call brainwashed activists are doing exactly the job they are supposed to do:
1 – insult the host population till the anger at Jews reach boiling point;
2 – issue threats at non-compliant Jews;
They are doing the herding. Stopping the assimilating flow, creating distrust among people and fear in the Jew. While they receive applause and protection from the jewish establishment people like you think they are lunatics. They know exactly what they are doing. You, on the other hand, know very little about this ancient jewish tradition and attribute this kind of behaviour to an entity you call "the real neo-nazis".
Wow again Bill…Calling me a racist when you actually support
Lieberman's plans for ethnic redistricting which by the way does call for an exchange of populations!(Hell, you might as well support Farakhan's plan to create a seperate black nation in our backyard). First of all, no one is calling the Jews, or even Israel, the root of all
evil in this world. We're (well at least I am) saying that Israel needs to change its policies. The only reason
I 'attack' them for getting so much military funding is because they use it to flatten other countries (ie Lebanon twice) and they use it so haphazardly against the Palestenians, whereas other countries that get this funding arent so gung-ho and the ones that attempt to be (ie Pakistan) are also hated by their own people. Secondly, I dont see why a Western outlook would fail, when it had delivered much more stability in the region 10 years ago than what we have today(ie look at the Palestenian unemployment figures and Israeli tourism figures from '96). If you dont believe that two sides can reasonably sit down and have a talk, just because people on one side who want peace 'don't exist', then what does that make you? Also regarding Hamas' commitment to the destruction of Israel, 3 words Bill: THINGS CAN CHANGE; just look at the PLO before '93. Bill your problem is that youre too easily frightened by the other side, thinking of them as 'hordes', all following Hamas' dedication to the destruction of Israel. In reality most people just want a decent job, so that they can put bread on their tables and give their children a decent education and some healthcare ,which is exactly what Hamas has attempted to do.
Pearlman says, "Are we not the only defense between the Shia hordes and the oil producing gulf emirates?"
Who's the "we" in that sentence, Bill? Are you posting from Tel Aviv?
A little geography lesson David, The main shiite concentrations have to go through the US military to get to the oil wells on th gulf. We I suppose is rhetorical, America, us. But, am I in the service like my father and grandfather was before me, no. Are you in the service ?
Anonymous, you wrote:
"Alan, you are the real simpleton here. The guys you call brainwashed activists are doing exactly the job they are supposed to do:
1 – insult the host population till the anger at Jews reach boiling point;"
a) You call this an "ancient jewish tradition". I would like to be educated on that, any material you might guide me to?
b) Being a simpleton, I find it difficult to see how "insult[ing] the host population till the anger at Jews reach boiling point" can be good for Jews.
Unless you are McDonald and consider this dangerous "game" an interesting evolutionary strategy to keep Jews together through intentional, provoked hatred of the host populations in spite of the suffering such hatred would bring upon Jews. And in spite of the fact that without the US, Israel would probably not make it for long.
Please elaborate. We simpletons get easily confused.
Anonymous:
Interesting how you make that schism between the host population and the eternal cosmopolitan Jew. And personally I didn't get that memo about the ancient Jewish traditions. I must have missed that day in Hebrew school but let me ask you this asshole. You seem to want Israel destroyed and Jews expunged from America. Doesn't leave us with a whole lot of options does it?
Enoch claims: "they use it to flatten other countries (ie Lebanon twice)" — and I wonder WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR INFORMATION FROM?….
Again, learning anything FROM the Arab media is not neccessarilly learning the real FACTS, it's usually the opposit. Israelis were NOT fighting Lebanon, but fighting a Shia, Iranian-sponsored militia, which HIJACKED a soveriegn country like Lebanon, forcing their own "foreign policy", taking over the south and the border with Israel, shooting Katyusha rockets at Israeli farms and towns every now and then, planting road-side bombs along the ISRAELI side of the border every couple months…
…And kidnapping Israeli soldiers from INSIDE Israel. That's in addition to weekly threats that "we have 12,000 rockets that cover all of Israel and we are planning to destroy Israel"… Just as their leader, little Hitler from Teheran has been promising the Muslim world, to "wipe Israel from the map".
Israel did NOT "flatten" Lebanon. Israel COULD flatten Lebanon if it wished to do so. Israelis were fighting Hezbollah, not Lebanon.
Just this past week Israeli Air Force has published reconnaissance VIDEO clips showing Hezbollah militants coming out of civilains' homes with rocket-launcher trucks, and driving back to those homes after launching those rockets into Israeli towns.
Again, you don't bother to actually STUDY the facts, 'cause the FACTS may not play well with your hateful agenda.
That's 'cause YOU HATE FIRST, AND LOOK FOR EXCUSES LATER.
You keep expecting Israel to "make peace with the Palestinians", but you guys also "forget" that Israel DID make major concessions and returned EVERY INCH of land when it could get a real, honest peace treaty from its arch enemy — Egypt, in 1979.
As much as the Isrealis are YEARNING for peace and quiet in their region, in the next decade, there is NO CHANCE of "making peace with the Palestinians" WHY? 'Cause there are enough EVIL, POWERFUL forces that would see to it that it will not happen.
…Just look at what's going on in Lebanon these very days, when Iranian and Syrians are "taking care" of things there… Lebanon used to predominantly CHRISTIAN, but today most of them FLED.
…Just as Bethlehem used to be 80% Christian when Arafat was granted full control over the West Bank in 1993, but today they are less than 12% of the population.
Makes you wonder why.
Amik, youre crazy man (seriously you need to get help). First off I forgot where the bombs were dropped? Oh yeah on Lebanon! What Hezbollah did was wrong, but what Israel did was far worse, launching one of the most pointless and disastrous wars in this new millenium. Speaking of the facts, just look at them: $5 billion damage to the economy of Lebanon (21% of their economy) and close to 1200 dead, not to mention people who are still dying today due to Israel's careless use of cluster bombs (basically mines) in residential areas. Also to further enlighten you, Lebanon was invaded not twice, but three times, in '78,'82 and '06. I know this all must seem like ancient history to you, but just consider it for the next time Israel decides to invade Lebanon. By the way, I love your comparison of Ahmedinejad and company to Hitler. As I was explaining to your colleague Bill, Iran is no where near of as a threat as Nazi Germany or even Saddam's Iraq (Just look at their economies and how the Iran-Iraq war played out, end of arguement). To say so would lead us into another useless quagmire.
Man, you read these comments and you wonder where these dumb Jews come from. Provincial, parochial, fundamentalist, smelly, ill-educated.
But I have to wonder. Is it that the Jewish lumpen tend to be Zionists and the Jews I know are Americans and proud Israelis?
Maybe these Jews who post here are as typical of Jews as the Muslim Shiites in South Beirut are of Muslims?
Is this our Hezbollah or just our lumpenproletariat: salesmen, bakers, longshoremen, petty accountants, and diamond cutters.
Weird.
I guess we can't all be Einstein!
I think I figured it out. Your posters here have spent their lives being scared of black people, running and hiding from the big goyim. For them, the IDF is the tough Jew they could never be. So they sit around in yeshiva jerking off to pictures of Israeli soldiers and wishing they too could beat up an Arab.
But they can't. Pathetic weaklings.
God, they make me sick.
Just keep the pointless arguements coming Amik. I serisouly think you need to use Wikipedia, Google etc. because your facts are completely skewed (ie Christians did not make up 80% of Bethlehem in '93, it was only in the 1950's and 1960's that they were replaced as the majority by Muslims due to their high birth rates above all). Furthermore making peace with Egypt is different from making peace with the Palestenians, which Israel has been all too reluctant to tackle. Yes there are 'EVIL ,POWERFUL' forces but their role is more of a vocally supportive role opposed to a financial and political role (Palestenians, particullary get most of their financing now-a-days from Saudi Arabia and many Gulf states and they actually used to get most of their funds from Israeli tax receipts before the boycott).
I know the "EVIL,POWERFUL" forces has their own agendas for dominance, but I also realize that they are not the sole reason for there not being a major,productive peace confrence in the past 6 1/2 years.
"Amik, youre crazy man (seriously you need to get help)." — He he, Thanks enoch. I know you get a bit nervous when someone dares to not only disagree with you, but actually show some KNOWLEDGE of the FACTS. I must be a THREAT to you, enoch.
"but what Israel did was far worse, launching one of the most pointless and disastrous wars in this new millenium." — Wow, you tend to get quite EMOTIONAL, enoch. What do you actually KNOW about all this?
And WHERE do you get your information from? Sounds to me like quoting some SLOGANS from some "reliable" web sites. Again — HATE FIRST, FIND YOUR EXCUSES — LATER, isn't it?
"God, they make me sick." — Hey, Jeff, dear, people like you do not deserve a response. Too much beer in your system don't do good to your brain.
But BTW, just for the record, I'm not a Jew who "sit around in yeshiva", I'm not even an observant Jew, and I did serve in the Israeli army. Sorry, Jeffry, you need to find some new excuses. A bit more INTELLIGENT, maybe? How about a cup of coffee, first?
"I serisouly think you need to use Wikipedia, Google etc." — the problem, enoch, is that you like to use ONLY those sources that play to your wicked tune. Wikipedia has never been suspected of being a reliable source (when anybody can "contribute" to it, freely).
The facts are there, even if you don't like them. Christians were about 80% of Bethlehem population when Arafat took over as a result of the '93 Oslo Accord. 3 years ago they were about 18%. Today, they are less than 12%.
They were constantly threatened by the notorious Abayat Muslim family who are the Mafioso of Bethlehem, their businesses were torched, their women raped, their homes were ransaced.
Which is exactly what's been happening in Lebanon in the past 30 years.
"Palestenians, particullary get most of their financing now-a-days from Saudi Arabia and many Gulf states" — This is simply BS. Had they gotten all that money from those you claim to give them, they wouldn't be in such a bad shape as they are now. NO, SIR, they get their money, lots of money from IRAN. Which is not even a secret, Iran says so and the Hamas leadership says so. Hamas leader Haniya is in Teheran now.
You need to get some real education about the issues, enoch. Calling others crazy and using empty, hollow slogans are not making you look more reliable.
Amik, I forgive you. I hadn't realized English is not your native tongue. You may not be a
stinky yeshiva bocher but simply a foreigner. My apologies. I'm sure in a few years, your English will be as clear as my Hungarian.
Wow! First of Amik the only real threat you are is to society in general (seriously how do you function man). Second off I dont even want to know where you get your facts from. I think I'll give myself a pat on the back right now for actually 'disclosing' the sources of my facts, which by the way arent innacurate (theres actually certain screening processes for Wikipedia and yeah if you want, cite Britannica too, which I double checked). 80% is totally and laughablly inaccurate. Just because one 'mafioso' like family decides to harass a bunch of Christian families (because thats what mafioso families do opposed to gun and drug traficking) doesnt mean there was a 68% decrease, which is by and far ridiculous. Good story, poor facts my friend.
Also, sticking to the topic of facts, most of the Palestenian Aid DOES (Its fun pretending to be you here with the random CAPITALIZING) come from Arab countries. Just read/listen the news (even Fox News or the even worse Israeli News) and you'll find out that the Arab League recently broke the financial blockade of the Palestinians donating $900 million which is by and large their biggest benefactor. Yeah its no secret that Iran gives money, but they come in a far distant second. Lastly, that statement regarding the war is true of most anyone you ask it, Israeli or non-Israeli (although for diff't reasons).
The war was basically 1 month of 'shock and awe' resulting in a stalemate. What were the benefits for either side? Oh yeah while were on the topic of 'slogans', I definitely want to tell you how much I love yours, although Im not doing either of the two (Hating or finding excuses? Whats wrong with you man). Just because I criticize Israel doesnt mean I hate it or Jews in general. I dont get
this logic.
Rowan Berkely is a self described national socialist, ie nazi.
– that's news to me, Bill. Sources please.
Deborah has of course brought up the crucial point. Which the AIPAC/Israeli crowd has of course attempted to smother with their usual strategies of smoke and heat and hysteria. It won't work anymore, guys. Not with us and not with hundreds of thousands like us. The Queen Mary is slowly turning around mid-ocean.
To paraphrase our beloved Leader, the Question must be asked: "Are you with US, or are you agin US?" Are you thinking of America first, or are you thinking of Israel first? The AIPAC/Israeli reply is: "There is no difference, the interests of the US are the interests of Israel."
And furthermore, says Pearlman, that stalwart front-line defender of Israel and of Jews everywhere (with the exception of lil' Philly Weiss of course, who doesn't count as a Jew anymore) … furthermore says Pearlman, the Real Question is not are you for US or are you for Israel, the real Crucial Question is: "Are you for Israel or are you for Hamas?"
"Are you for Israel or are you for the unwashed Islamic hordes?" Are you for Israel or are you for Israel's enemies? That, according to Pearlman is the crucial question which should be engaging all right-thinking Americans.
No, Pearlman. No, no and no. The cause of America, the well-being of this country, the international reputation of this country, the physical security of this country and her citizens, the domestic economy, the neediness of our own citizens, the moral imperative for this country to make right what she has done wrong, the historic imperative for this country to fully manifest her glorious Constitution — this is the concern, this is the legitimate and proper concern of Americans. This is what comes well ahead of any concern we might have for the holy cause of a foreign nation. Although I have to hand it to you and to others like you, it is a truly impressive accomplishment the way a pipsqueak Middle Eastern nation with no oil reserves has managed to pussywhip this great nation into doing doing its' bidding for so long. A marvellous high-wire act composed only of chutzpah and propoganda. With a huge dollop of blackmail lacing the whole structure together. Impressive.
In the 1930's the American left was finally forced to abandon their hopes and dreams and fascination with the great Communist experiment in Russia. It was a noble cause. But it died on the vine, failing to bear any other than bitter fruit. The Stalinist genocide of millions of Ukranians finally put paid to that experiment and that dream. There is some analogy here to the historic support of the American left to the cause of Israel. Israel has proved a bitter disappointment. And to paraphrase Madeline Albright: "The huge cost that we are paying for Israel — it is no longer worth it."
Deborah has of course brought up the crucial point. Which the AIPAC/Israeli crowd has of course attempted to smother with their usual strategies of smoke and heat and hysteria. It won't work anymore, guys. Not with us and not with hundreds of thousands like us. The Queen Mary is slowly turning around mid-ocean.
To paraphrase our beloved Leader, the Question must be asked: "Are you with US, or are you agin US?" Are you thinking of America first, or are you thinking of Israel first? The AIPAC/Israeli reply is: "There is no difference, the interests of the US are the interests of Israel."
And furthermore, says Pearlman, that stalwart front-line defender of Israel and of Jews everywhere (with the exception of lil' Philly Weiss of course, who doesn't count as a Jew anymore) … furthermore says Pearlman, the Real Question is not are you for US or are you for Israel, the real Crucial Question is: "Are you for Israel or are you for Hamas?"
"Are you for Israel or are you for the unwashed Islamic hordes?" Are you for Israel or are you for Israel's enemies? That, according to Pearlman is the crucial question which should be engaging all right-thinking Americans.
No, Pearlman. No, no and no. The cause of America, the well-being of this country, the international reputation of this country, the physical security of this country and her citizens, the domestic economy, the neediness of our own citizens, the moral imperative for this country to make right what she has done wrong, the historic imperative for this country to fully manifest her glorious Constitution — this is the concern, this is the legitimate and proper concern of Americans. This is what comes well ahead of any concern we might have for the holy cause of a foreign nation. Although I have to hand it to you and to others like you, it is a truly impressive accomplishment the way a pipsqueak Middle Eastern nation with no oil reserves has managed to pussywhip this great nation into doing doing its' bidding for so long. A marvellous high-wire act composed only of chutzpah and propoganda. With a huge dollop of blackmail lacing the whole structure together. Impressive.
In the 1930's the American left was finally forced to abandon their hopes and dreams and fascination with the great Communist experiment in Russia. It was a noble cause. But it died on the vine, failing to bear any other than bitter fruit. The Stalinist genocide of millions of Ukranians finally put paid to that experiment and that dream. There is some analogy here to the historic support of the American left to the cause of Israel. Israel has proved a bitter disappointment. And to paraphrase Madeline Albright: "The huge cost that we are paying for Israel — it is no longer worth it."
Hey Brenda, half of all Americans own stocks. I doubt that you're in that half, but if you were you'd be glad that Israel is driving the NASDAQ and NYSE up with stocks like Google, Intel, IBM, Berkshire Hathaway and Boeing.
Half of all American support Israel because they care primarily about their wallets and not about little Osamas running around Gaza ranting about destroying their investments….
The Arabs want to destroy civilization becasue they are jealous of it.