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	<title>Comments on: Glenn Greenwald on &#8220;Israel-centric&#8221; Neocons</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: saifedean</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71827</link>
		<dc:creator>saifedean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71827</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think I actually agree with Dan in that I do worry about a backlash on the issue of American support for Israel; I worry that this backlash will be spearheaded by populist right-wing jingoism that will carry lots of anti-Semitic undertones, and that might cause deep problems in American society that I genuinely fear.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However, I agree with Phil (and disagree with Dan) that the right way to approach this topic is not for progressives to avoid it, not discuss it, or frown on it when it crosses certain &#039;divine&#039; topics like Zionism and Israel&#039;s racism. But for it to be owned by progressive elements in America with a clear understanding of what it means, how Israel mest up, how America enabled it to mess up, and how this can be fixed, to make sure that when the right-wing dormant anti-Semites start peddling their nonsensical &quot;it&#039;s all the Jews&#039; fault&quot; venom, they won&#039;t find anyone to hear them out.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The best way to avoid any horrible backlash is to be open about this and have an open discussion. Sunlight is the best disenfectant.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I actually agree with Dan in that I do worry about a backlash on the issue of American support for Israel; I worry that this backlash will be spearheaded by populist right-wing jingoism that will carry lots of anti-Semitic undertones, and that might cause deep problems in American society that I genuinely fear.</p>
<p>However, I agree with Phil (and disagree with Dan) that the right way to approach this topic is not for progressives to avoid it, not discuss it, or frown on it when it crosses certain &#39;divine&#39; topics like Zionism and Israel&#39;s racism. But for it to be owned by progressive elements in America with a clear understanding of what it means, how Israel mest up, how America enabled it to mess up, and how this can be fixed, to make sure that when the right-wing dormant anti-Semites start peddling their nonsensical &quot;it&#39;s all the Jews&#39; fault&quot; venom, they won&#39;t find anyone to hear them out.</p>
<p>The best way to avoid any horrible backlash is to be open about this and have an open discussion. Sunlight is the best disenfectant.</p>
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		<title>By: Oarwell</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71828</link>
		<dc:creator>Oarwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71828</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;But, in a sense, we&#039;re all parties to a hidden agenda, which is that of the war profiteer.  Very few comment on the bias towards war caused by munitions manufacturers; ie, the &quot;military-industrial complex.&quot;  If we accept Smedley Butler&#039;s thesis that &#039;War is a Racket,&#039; then it seems somewhat particularist (and, therefore, lending itself to allegations of invidious intent)to focus solely on Jewish neo-cons.  Is Halliburton Jewish?  Lockheed? Newport News Shipbuilding?  Grumman? What about all these companies?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.homelanddefensestocks.com/Companies/HomelandDefense/Stock_List.asp&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I admire your efforts, Phil, and if you want to concentrate on this very narrow perspective, that&#039;s your call, but dare to make the connections: wars are immensely profitable for a certain sector, and that sector is not (at least to my knowledge) identifiably Jewish.  Far larger forces are at play than mere sectarian passion (or, for that matter, oil thirst).  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Many people wonder why the Palestinian dilemma festers, 50 years on.  One reason, I&#039;m reasonably certain, is that the Israeli security status quo (ie. not good), is profitable to certain defense sectors (and, by extension, to venal Israeli politicians), and they have no interest in changing that (lucrative) reality.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Many on the libertarian right and on the left readily acknowledge that &quot;perpetual war for perpetual peace&quot; in the West means perpetually windgall profits for a few (as well as burgeoning Big Brotherism.)  If our own &quot;GWOT&quot; is viewed as a scam, if many if not most past U.S. wars can be viewed as wars of imperial rapacity (the reason General Butler came to see himself as a &quot;gangster for American corporations&quot;), then I doubt the Israeli situation is much different.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Follow the money to the War Pigs.  You will find them to be a rather ecumenical group.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, in a sense, we&#39;re all parties to a hidden agenda, which is that of the war profiteer.  Very few comment on the bias towards war caused by munitions manufacturers; ie, the &quot;military-industrial complex.&quot;  If we accept Smedley Butler&#39;s thesis that &#39;War is a Racket,&#39; then it seems somewhat particularist (and, therefore, lending itself to allegations of invidious intent)to focus solely on Jewish neo-cons.  Is Halliburton Jewish?  Lockheed? Newport News Shipbuilding?  Grumman? What about all these companies?</p>
<p>http://www.homelanddefensestocks.com/Companies/HomelandDefense/Stock_List.asp</p>
<p>I admire your efforts, Phil, and if you want to concentrate on this very narrow perspective, that&#39;s your call, but dare to make the connections: wars are immensely profitable for a certain sector, and that sector is not (at least to my knowledge) identifiably Jewish.  Far larger forces are at play than mere sectarian passion (or, for that matter, oil thirst).  </p>
<p>Many people wonder why the Palestinian dilemma festers, 50 years on.  One reason, I&#39;m reasonably certain, is that the Israeli security status quo (ie. not good), is profitable to certain defense sectors (and, by extension, to venal Israeli politicians), and they have no interest in changing that (lucrative) reality.  </p>
<p>Many on the libertarian right and on the left readily acknowledge that &quot;perpetual war for perpetual peace&quot; in the West means perpetually windgall profits for a few (as well as burgeoning Big Brotherism.)  If our own &quot;GWOT&quot; is viewed as a scam, if many if not most past U.S. wars can be viewed as wars of imperial rapacity (the reason General Butler came to see himself as a &quot;gangster for American corporations&quot;), then I doubt the Israeli situation is much different.</p>
<p>Follow the money to the War Pigs.  You will find them to be a rather ecumenical group.</p>
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		<title>By: cooper</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71829</link>
		<dc:creator>cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71829</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Media coverage of Israel&#039;s underground in the US –&lt;br /&gt;
and the 9/11 connection in chronological order:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Media coverage of Israel&#39;s underground in the US –<br />
and the 9/11 connection in chronological order:</p>
<p>http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php</p>
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		<title>By: cooper</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71830</link>
		<dc:creator>cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71830</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;When the realization begins to dawn that at least one substantial factor as to why America waged Middle Eastern war(s) is because influential individuals with an overarching devotion to Israel pushed for war against Israel&#039;s enemies, then an anti-Israeli backlash is highly likely to occur. And the backlash is likely to be far more severe and hostile than anything that would ever happen naturally, meaning in the absence of such manipulation...&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17260.htm&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.madcowprod.com/index58bb.html&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/052204/geo_15672724.shtml&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3484.htm&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52681,00.html&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/80403_fbi29.shtml&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;When the realization begins to dawn that at least one substantial factor as to why America waged Middle Eastern war(s) is because influential individuals with an overarching devotion to Israel pushed for war against Israel&#39;s enemies, then an anti-Israeli backlash is highly likely to occur. And the backlash is likely to be far more severe and hostile than anything that would ever happen naturally, meaning in the absence of such manipulation&#8230;&quot;</p>
</p>
<p>http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17260.htm</p>
<p>http://www.madcowprod.com/index58bb.html</p>
<p>http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/052204/geo_15672724.shtml</p>
<p>http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3484.htm</p>
<p>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52681,00.html</p>
<p>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/80403_fbi29.shtml</p>
<p>http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm</p>
<p>http://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71831</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71831</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Iraqi chaos is a disaster to the ordinary Iraqis.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The chaos has one creator: Iranian mullah junta.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The US government wanted Saddam out and a close build up of military forces next to Iran.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Iran has thrown in significant resource to generate fluctuating anarchy in Iraq.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;All happy celebrating viewers are as evil as the Iranian junta.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But, the chaos will have no winners, and the burden will be on the ordinary Iranians who will pay for the destruction of Iran when the conflict will spread to there.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Gaza and Lebanon have paid their price already. Iran may be next.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Iraqi chaos is a disaster to the ordinary Iraqis.</p>
<p>The chaos has one creator: Iranian mullah junta.</p>
<p>The US government wanted Saddam out and a close build up of military forces next to Iran.</p>
<p>Iran has thrown in significant resource to generate fluctuating anarchy in Iraq.</p>
<p>All happy celebrating viewers are as evil as the Iranian junta.</p>
<p>But, the chaos will have no winners, and the burden will be on the ordinary Iranians who will pay for the destruction of Iran when the conflict will spread to there.</p>
<p>Gaza and Lebanon have paid their price already. Iran may be next.</p>
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		<title>By: Montag</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71832</link>
		<dc:creator>Montag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71832</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here&#039;s a disturbing article from the Marine Corps Times about a huge 7.2 square mile mockup of an Arab town built in Israel for IDF training.  It can have its configuration changed to look like specific towns in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon or Syria.  But it will ALSO be used to train U.S. forces on their way to Iraq!  What kind of message does this send to the Arabs--a permanent Zionist-Crusader war against any and all of them? &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/06/marine_israel_combattraining_070624/&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#39;s a disturbing article from the Marine Corps Times about a huge 7.2 square mile mockup of an Arab town built in Israel for IDF training.  It can have its configuration changed to look like specific towns in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon or Syria.  But it will ALSO be used to train U.S. forces on their way to Iraq!  What kind of message does this send to the Arabs&#8211;a permanent Zionist-Crusader war against any and all of them? </p>
<p>http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/06/marine_israel_combattraining_070624/</p>
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		<title>By: lester</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71833</link>
		<dc:creator>lester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71833</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;steve- that was a pretty scary response, only partially because it has nothing to do with the topic.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;saifedean- &quot;I think I actually agree with Dan in that I do worry about a backlash on the issue of American support for Israel; I worry that this backlash will be spearheaded by populist right-wing jingoism that will carry lots of anti-Semitic undertones, and that might cause deep problems in American society that I genuinely fear.&#039;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
boo hoo.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;anyway, yes the neo cons, like other religious extremists (they are still sort of forming their fire and brimstone judaism, the muslims and others have had a long head start)  are virtual charicatures of the racist view of all jews.  I&#039;ve met a number of muslims who are stereotypes.  they are a MAD tv sketch poking fun of muslims.  The three abrahamic faiths are the three stooges of humanity and we need to keep the extremists way way way in the back.  they need to be in the stock room, not the main office.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>steve- that was a pretty scary response, only partially because it has nothing to do with the topic.</p>
<p>saifedean- &quot;I think I actually agree with Dan in that I do worry about a backlash on the issue of American support for Israel; I worry that this backlash will be spearheaded by populist right-wing jingoism that will carry lots of anti-Semitic undertones, and that might cause deep problems in American society that I genuinely fear.&#39;</p>
<p>
boo hoo.</p>
</p>
<p>anyway, yes the neo cons, like other religious extremists (they are still sort of forming their fire and brimstone judaism, the muslims and others have had a long head start)  are virtual charicatures of the racist view of all jews.  I&#39;ve met a number of muslims who are stereotypes.  they are a MAD tv sketch poking fun of muslims.  The three abrahamic faiths are the three stooges of humanity and we need to keep the extremists way way way in the back.  they need to be in the stock room, not the main office.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Chaihorsky</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71834</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Chaihorsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71834</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;To Phil - &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I actually vehemently object to &quot;liberal&quot; ownership of anti-war and anti-Zionist ideas. The fact that Republican Party veered off traditional Conservative value system does not transfer traditional anti-war, mind-your-own-business, curb-governmental-powers agenda into the hands of liberals.&lt;br /&gt;
I would recommend everyone to pick  &quot;The American Conservative&quot; magazine once and take a look if you like it. Its a true paleocon publication that many liberals absolutely adore.&lt;br /&gt;
BTW, being a very Conservative Republican (I suspended my Republican membership after US-Nato invasion into Yugoslavia) I always believed that if we get rid of special interest lobbying power, liberals and conservatives will find their position much closer and compromises and alliences much easier to forge that we used to believe.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To Steve:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course. Iranians also were behind  Nazi Holocaust. Hitler himself was an Iranian, actually. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Gaza is on its way to become a seat of Hamas, which, together with Hizbullah slowly becoming the  most dynamic political movement in the region. Lebanon war created a panic among Israeli hawks and won morally so convincingly that Israeli government lost its own population support. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Iran next? If the victory over Iran will be of any similarity of the victories over Gaza or Lebanon, God help us.&lt;br /&gt;
If Iran is attacked, independant of short-term results, a long term process of Sunni-Shia and Arab-Pharsi unification into pre-schism monolithic Islamic region will be greatly accelerated.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Phil &#8211; </p>
<p>I actually vehemently object to &quot;liberal&quot; ownership of anti-war and anti-Zionist ideas. The fact that Republican Party veered off traditional Conservative value system does not transfer traditional anti-war, mind-your-own-business, curb-governmental-powers agenda into the hands of liberals.<br />
I would recommend everyone to pick  &quot;The American Conservative&quot; magazine once and take a look if you like it. Its a true paleocon publication that many liberals absolutely adore.<br />
BTW, being a very Conservative Republican (I suspended my Republican membership after US-Nato invasion into Yugoslavia) I always believed that if we get rid of special interest lobbying power, liberals and conservatives will find their position much closer and compromises and alliences much easier to forge that we used to believe.</p>
<p>To Steve:</p>
<p>Of course. Iranians also were behind  Nazi Holocaust. Hitler himself was an Iranian, actually. </p>
<p>Gaza is on its way to become a seat of Hamas, which, together with Hizbullah slowly becoming the  most dynamic political movement in the region. Lebanon war created a panic among Israeli hawks and won morally so convincingly that Israeli government lost its own population support. </p>
<p>Iran next? If the victory over Iran will be of any similarity of the victories over Gaza or Lebanon, God help us.<br />
If Iran is attacked, independant of short-term results, a long term process of Sunni-Shia and Arab-Pharsi unification into pre-schism monolithic Islamic region will be greatly accelerated.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71835</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71835</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Alex, I agree with you that the left/right paradigm is increasingly unhelpful for analyzing current events, and is in fact often used to intentionally distract. But Phil is way ahead of you: he has written for The American Conservative a couple of times.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, I agree with you that the left/right paradigm is increasingly unhelpful for analyzing current events, and is in fact often used to intentionally distract. But Phil is way ahead of you: he has written for The American Conservative a couple of times.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/06/glenn-greenwald-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-71836</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/06/25/glenn-greenwald-2.html#comment-71836</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Another chink in the armor, this from a Dutch current affairs program--&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YorwoqFGCn4&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgZQpHsfWNw&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(You would think that at least a FEW of these viewpoints would show up in the famously free U.S. media this anniversary year -- if only to be ridiculed as &quot;revisionist.&quot; It&#039;s not as if the 1967 War is not still affecting all our lives.)&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another chink in the armor, this from a Dutch current affairs program&#8211;<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YorwoqFGCn4br">link to youtube.com</a><br /> /><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgZQpHsfWNw/p">link to youtube.com</a></p>
<p>
(You would think that at least a FEW of these viewpoints would show up in the famously free U.S. media this anniversary year &#8212; if only to be ridiculed as &quot;revisionist.&quot; It&#39;s not as if the 1967 War is not still affecting all our lives.)</p>
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