The greatest achievement so far of Walt & Mearsheimer is that they have knocked down a wall in the American discourse: They have licensed ideas and statements that would have been impossible to imagine even a month ago.
On Monday at Hopkins’s SAIS in D.C., there was a forum for Trita Parsi’s fabulous book on the Iran/Israel/U.S. triangle, Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Iran, Israel and the United States. Newsweek Senior Editor Michael Hirsh, the magazine’s former foreign editor, was one of the respondents, and in the Q-and-A, a Georgetown grad student asked why the U.S. was not negotiating with Iran re nukes, and whether this reflected pressure from the Israelis. Hirsh answered that the reason was "entirely ideological." The Bush Administration still adheres to the "neocon position… essentially, that by talking to a regime you legitimize it."
"As I said earlier, with North Korea, the only reason they changed their tune a little bit–’Kim Jong Il is evil’–is that they simply got too distracted by [the ongoing problems in] Iraq. And North Korea is not important enough. On Iran, considerations of the Israeli lobby and Israel do come into play to some degree, I don’t know how much… But they do. It is seen as a different animal…"
I don’t think Hirsh would have used the word "lobby" pre-Walt/Mearsheimer. Wow. Isn’t it about time we talked about this, when we are threatening to bomb Iran? Will Hirsh put W&M on the cover of Newsweek?
Related posts:
- ‘New Yorker’ Editor: Israel and Lobby Bear Responsibility for Iraq War
- Perestroika: James Fallows Says “Mainly… Jewish” Faction Pushes for Iran Showdown
- ‘Newsweek’ is namby-pamby on the Israel lobby
- Tom Friedman says ‘everyone knows’ Israel lobby blocked US policy re settlements
- Will Rising Political Temperature over Iran Compel Journalists to Look at the Israel Lobby?
{ 38 comments }
How much is that saying?
"On Iran, considerations of the Israeli lobby and Israel do come into play to some degree, I don't know how much… But they do. It is seen as a different animal…""
is a VERY different statement than "the Israel lobby forced …." as is implied by your headline.
Pro-Israel Lobby (JINSA, PNAC, AIPAC, etc.) Pushing for War with Iran as Well:
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=49800
Defend Cong. Moran from AIPAC Media Attacks (Updated):
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=79095
Air Force refused to fly weapons (nukes) to Middle East theater (Cheney and 'A Clean Break' David Wurmser involved?):
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?p=390040#390040
D.C. Notes: Wes Clark is Steamed & BORCHGRAVE:
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=65914
The Gorilla in the Room is US Support for Israel
http://representativepress.blogspot.com/2005/08/gorilla-in-room-is-us-support-for.html
One of W&M's other notable achievements has been the forging Richard Witty into one of the most prolific apologists Zionism has ever known.
By the way Richard, are you a pseudonym for Marty Peretz, or do you merely idolize him?
Prominent Mideast analyst associated with AIPAC espionage case:
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=40990
I prefer the term advocate for liberal Zionism, to "apologist".
Americans have put Israel on a pedestal, and that has to rectified.
Israel, and the neocon American Jewish PACS, don't seem to understand how they are being played, or used, by others, as a wedge, to isolate America from the rest of the Middle East, and world. The war drum is continually pounded by these groups, making them look unreasonable, and unstable. This, as opposed to intelligent diplomacy.
America will suffer strategically and economically if it does not recognize Israel's crimes against the Arabs, including torture and genocide. Once Israel is seen for what it really is, as opposed to an old ideal, progress can be made here, and in the middle east..
Liberal Zionism: First we ethnically cleanse Palestine, then we talk about human rights and the great progressive Jewish tradition.
Liberal Zionism: First we send our sons and daughters to kill Arabs, then we let them smoke weed in a commune and travel the world for a few years.
Judaism: We enslave or Genocide all non Jews, then we rule the world with an Iron Rod.
Remember, we're the Jews, and all others are subhuman. The world was made only for the Torah and the Jews.
Richard Witty may be a Cyber Warrior for Israel, what I like to call a "megaphony":
Israel’s Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages.
In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate.
Jonny Cline, of the international student group, said that Jewish students and youth groups with their understanding of the web environment were ideally placed to present another side to the debate.
“We’re saying to these people that if Israel is being bashed, don’t ignore it, change it,” Mr Cline said. “A poll like CNN’s takes just a few seconds to vote in, but if thousands take part the outcome will be changed. What’s vital is that the international face of the conflict is balanced.”
Related Links
In Lebanon: five faces
War on two fronts
More innocent blood is shed as Israel steps up offensive
Doron Barkat, 29, in Jerusalem, spends long nights trawling the web to try to swing the debate Israel’s way. “When I see internet polls for or against Israel I send out a mailing list to vote for Israel,” he said. “It can be that after 15 minutes there will be 400 votes for Israel.
“It’s very satisfying. There are also forums where Lebanese and Israelis talk.”
Israel’s Foreign Ministry must avoid direct involvement with the campaign but is in contact with international Jewish and evangelical Christian groups, distributing internet information packs.
Amir Gissin, the Israeli Foreign Ministry’s public relations director, said: “The internet’s become a leading tool for news, shaping the world view of millions. Our problem is the foreign media shows Lebanese suffering, but not Israeli. We’re bypassing that filter by distributing pictures showing how northern Israelis suffer from Katyusha rocket attacks.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693911.ece
More ridicule, rather than thought?
There are wrongs that Palestinians are experiencing, but certainly the term "genocide" is a callous exageration.
The word has meaning.
You sound like you're from the "young republicans", or maybe one of the Larouche organizations, both of which put the worst of ADL or AIPAC to shame in the extremes of its methods.
Liberal Zionist = Complete hypocrite.
Every one of them a charlatan.
"The era of darkness will end. Prisoners will return home, the occupied lands will be freed, Palestine and Iraq will be liberated from the dominion of the occupiers and the people of America and Europe will be free of the pressures exerted by the Zionists." (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, 2007)
Genocide? What's in a word?
Exploring the new antisemitism.
Probably the most grotesque and malignant antisemitic fabrication of all time is the ancient, "Blood Libel", which briefly put, accuses the Jews of using the blood of Christian children to make Passover matzo. Of course it isn't true, but it is about the worst lie ever made up about the Jews. It is considered the height of antisemitic poison.
How does it compare with reality?
For many years the entire world has been watching Israeli soldiers shooting small boys who have been tossing rocks at them.
How do a few nonexistent matzos compare with all those dead little rock throwing Palestinian boys?
That is what Pipes and Dershowitz are trying to cover up when they hide behind the accusation of antisemtism.
I tend to question vehemence.
I surmise that anyone that has an "anti" orientation and with enormous momentum and force, is at least partially attempting to not be seen.
It happens a lot in politics. Vehemence rather than inquiry, one-dimensional inquiry rather than multi-dimensional.
'is a VERY different statement than "the Israel lobby *forced* …." as is implied by your headline.'
You quote his statement but use a word that was not in the title.
I don't think you can type an honest sentence.
mullah cimoc say ameriki so smart for realize israeli spy net in white house and pentagon to control all usa,
this the traitor. ameriki him need identify all him israeli spy nets and destroy so quick or ameriki society become destroy even worse than LBT (low back tattoo) slut and feminize mans.
look at usa so bad now. even hyundai better car making than the ford, or the chevrolet or the dodge. this big disgrace for ameriki.
now only strong point for usa be viagra pill and 7-11 cheese nacho.
Daveg must not understand that it is anti-semitic to not permit the Israel lobby to misquote.
Wow! What a revelation. Editor of Newspeak noticing Israel's influence in our foreign policy. That might explain why nobody reads his rag anymore. Just a little slow on the uptake,wouldn't you say? Who do you think owns Newspeak anyway? The Irish? Actually Katherine Meyers Graham(The Post). But what really controls content in media is advertising. Look it up
.
Seranade mentioned the 'megaphone' software. Here is the site that tracks websites and organizes internet activism for Israel where one can also download the 'megaphone':
http://giyus.org/
(giyus = Give Israel Your United Support)
Check out the Online Alerts section and the blog. Priceless.
Lots of useful tools for apologists. Imagine how desperate they must be to create the 'megaphone' and also a shameless propaganda manual, the Hasbara handbook, which everyone should read to spot immediately those apologists who are trained to waste one's time:
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf
Megaphone, Hasbara manual, Dershowitz. It doesn't look good for Israel.
.
Ask Phil if he thought my inference was unfair.
"misquote".
"shaping" vs "forced", definitely an escalation.
"shaping" though is very different than "do come into play to some degree"
Of possible interest is this recent story:
http://politics.reddit.com/info/2u6yj/comments
Richard Witty "There are wrongs that Palestinians are experiencing, but certainly the term "genocide" is a callous exageration."
How about The New Warsaw Ghetto? Does that fit better?
Senate approves Lieberman resolution on Iran
By ANDREW MIGA | Associated Press Writer
6:56 PM EDT, September 26, 2007
WASHINGTON – The Senate on Wednesday approved a resolution urging the State Department to designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps a terrorist organization, a move aimed at bringing additional economic pressure on Iran.
The measure passed 76-22.
The proposal by Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., and Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., attracted overwhelming bipartisan support. But a small group of Democrats said they feared that labeling the state-sponsored organization a terrorist group could be interpreted as a congressional authorization of military force in Iran.
Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., was among those voting against the amendment. Dodd referred to the 2002 congressional vote authorizing the use of force that led to President Bush's decision to invade Iraq.
"We shouldn't repeat our mistakes and enable this president again," Dodd said in a statement.
Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., branded the Lieberman-Kyl measure as Vice President Dick Cheney's "fondest pipe dream."
Lieberman and Kyl have said their resolution does not authorize the use of force against Iran. It was instead crafted to cut off financial support for Iran, they said.
"It is vital to the national security interests of the United States that the Iranian government not be allowed to prevail in its proxy war against us in Iraq," Lieberman said in a statement. "This amendment makes it clear both to our enemies and our friends that the United States will not retreat in the face of Iranian terrorism."
The Revolutionary Guard is training, arming, funding and directing extremists inside Iraq who are killing U.S. troops, Lieberman has said.
The Bush administration is considering wide-ranging sanctions against the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps' Quds force, which is accused of supporting insurgents in Iraq, by naming it an international terrorist group.
The Senate vote came one day after Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad addressed the U.N. General Assembly.
During a tense appearance at Columbia University Monday, Ahmadinejad defended Holocaust revisionists and raised questions about who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks. His visit this week has drawn thousands of protesters.
The Iranian leader has denied the chief accusations against Iran, that it is providing weapons to kill U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, supporting terrorism or breaking international law by developing nuclear weapons.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct–lieberman-iran0926sep26,0,6941186.story
**********
No comment other than to say that this IS effectively a congressional authorization of military force in Iran.
We need to stop referring to AIPAC, JINSA, ADL or any so called Holocaust and Settlement Indusries as Israeli Lobbies. Israeli sucks – a good Lobby would have us thinking otherwise.
The truth is that these "groups" are just Arms Dealer Lobbies hiding behind the "Holocaust Shield" and doing dirty work for the gun runners who are making Trillions off a global enterprise of genocide and war crimes.
If I were an Israeli – I would demand an audit!
The Jewish past was peppered with tragedies.
Christianity's past was full of crimes.
==================================
Together, we can redeem the past.
=============================
Most Christians have realized it that it is a crime to be anti-Zionist.
Anti-Zionists are lynching the wrong party.
It would be more constructive to say that some Zionists became delusionary and eat and drink the Old Testament.
While most Israelis are just decent people, and do not wish harm to anybody, not like the mass murderer mullahs.
Iraq was a terrible country. Built while killing indiscriminately.
Iran is the same. A murder plot.
If these two will never be put on a decent track, the world will be suffering.
The comments here are so fake.
My sympathy for the Palestinians does not limit my critical views on their many wrongs.
Arafat and co. was a petty dictatorship rule. Not beneficial to freedom.
The Palestinian society must redeem itself – while asking for Israeli cooperation, the respectable elements should come to the front and become the leaders.
The Hamas leaders are wrong. Just another version of petty dictators.
We can help the Palestinians if we ask them to calm down and look for internal solutions before blaming Israel for the tragedies – all tragedies.
The tragedies were not the fault of the Israelis.
The Palestinian politics seemed like a suicide so far. Perhaps Palestinian leaders made just too many bad judgments.
It can be changed for the future.
Does the Hasbara also provide a style manual for Zionist apologists:
Here is Witty for instance:
"The effort was a good and necessary effort.
…
It deserves sympathy, not contempt.
Zionism was bold. That is a certainty. Pioneer."
And here is Steve:
"Iraq was a terrible country. Built while killing indiscriminately.
Iran is the same. A murder plot.
…
The comments here are so fake.
…
Arafat and co. was a petty dictatorship rule. Not beneficial to freedom.
…
The Hamas leaders are wrong. Just another version of petty dictators. "
Those statements look more like exclamations than anything else. Perhaps these scribes are told to limit the length of their statements to that of banner headlines."
Well yeah…duh. You can only hide the truth for so long and then Allah reveals what you hoped would remain hidden forever.
I wouldn't necessarily credit any one "person" with this humonguous social change.
After what we went through last year in Lebanon…THAT is what opened everyone's eyes. It (Hezbollah) won a Divine Victory not only for muslims but for the whole planet which is now (as Ahmadinijad pointed out eloquently to the UN general assembly)…which is now full of monstrous poverty, heinous political officials and basically, murder, mayhem and racial/gender abuses.
What should Americans fear more, Islamofascists or Zionist treason?
I hate to put in a plug for Pat Buchanan, but this article is common sense swarupa:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22559
Choice bit:
"Libya was a "state sponsor of terror," and Col. Khadafi was responsible for Pan Am 103, the Lockerbie massacre of school kids coming home for Christmas. And President Bush secretly negotiated a renewal of relations in return for Khadafi giving up his nuclear program and compensating the families of the victims of that atrocity. Has Ahmadinejad ever committed an act of terror like this?
Richard Nixon went to Moscow and concluded strategic arms agreements while Moscow was the arms supplier of the enemy we were fighting in Vietnam that used, at Hue, mass murder as a war tactic.
Nixon went to Beijing to toast Mao Zedong, the greatest mass murderer in history, responsible for the deaths of 37,000 Americans in Korea, who was, in 1972, persecuting and murdering dissidents in the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution run by his crazed wife, and transshipping Russian weapons into Vietnam.
And Nixon is today hailed as a statesman for having gone there.
In 1959, President Eisenhower rode up Pennsylvania Avenue in an open convertible with Nikita Khrushchev, Stalin's gauleiter in Ukraine, who, three years before his tour of the United States, had sent tanks into Budapest to butcher the patriots of the Hungarian Revolution.
What has Ahmadinejad done to rival these monsters? "
Actaully if you look up the legal definition, GENOCIDE is the right description of Israeli treatment of Palestinians
these postings are often a good copy of the rush limbaugh demagogy with an opposite effect.
anti zionism is not very moral.
moral would be to inspire the Palestinians to formulate a constructive self-respecting policy – without extremism.
the fascist anti zionists can no find one decent individuals in the zionist past.
they do not have the energy to read history.
propaganda is tasteless in all colors.
communits, khomeinist, hamas, gush emmunim, kahane etc.
all wrong!
Come to think of it Uncle Adolf was right about these people after all.
The ONLY reason that the Zionists haven't completely exterminated the native Palestinians is because we live in the age of mass communication, because the whole world is watching. As it is, they control the media and
have the best P.R. programs so they do a little at a time and get away with murder
I just found solid proof that the Zionists are the force behind the Iraq invasion and are actively killing innocent Muslims. Not only that, but they are inducing other American soliders to do the same. Whoever was saying that they send others to do their dirty work is dead wrong. They do it themselves, and they seem to do it quite well. This is from a blog by some guy named Michael Totten. He is in Iraq and here is what he reports.
RAMADI, IRAQ – I met and interviewed dozens of Army officers in Baghdad and Ramadi, but none who were as admired and respected by the men who serve under them as much as 3rd Infantry Division Lieutenant Colonel Mike Silverman from Midway, Georgia. Junior officers and enlisted men nicknamed him “the forty pound brainer,” and admire him for his guts as well as his head. “He went out and spent 12 hours a day in his hot tank,” during the battle of Ramadi one soldier said. “He risked getting blown up just like everyone else.” “I had served with him before,” said another. “When he told me he needed me in Ramadi, that was all I needed to hear. I mean, I didn’t have any choice because the Army gave me my orders, but that didn’t matter once I knew Colonel Silverman was out here.” “I’d do anything for that man,” said a third, “and I don’t like officers.”
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