Comments on: Do the Goyim Get to Register an Opinion Re Walt/Mearsheimer? http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Sun, 27 May 2012 21:50:14 +0000 hourly 1 By: TimothyL http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-79316 TimothyL Sun, 10 May 2009 22:22:47 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-79316 Mr. Weiss, I write this as an admirer of your heroic activities on this website. In my opinion, you favor people who are honest, moral and shall I say “law-abiding”. “Bad Jew”/”Good Jew”? I gather from this post, and its antecedent, that the “Good Jew” of whom you speak favored, and was (and is) encouraged to contribute money, effort and argument to aid and advance the post-’67 confiscation of West Bank/Gaza lands to expand the Jewish State. And in the 1830’s, in Georgia, who was a “Good American”? Of course, those Americans who wanted to drive out the Cherokees, a civilized and assimilated people, from their ancient lands in Georgia. As the Cherokee were driven to death and exile at gunpoint by the then-US Defense forces, they sang “Amazing Grace” along the Trail of Tears. [This moving and stirring hymn was composed by a reformed slave-trader who anguished over his own inhumanity.] It is too bad this Christian hymn can’t somehow find its way into the suffering of the Palestinians. I made my living in the world of jurisprudence here in the US. From this I learned about “good” and “bad”. Specifically, where behavior proscribed by criminal law, it is “bad”. No amount of moral argument, religious or nationalistic ideology, or volumes of really smart semantics, can ever change proscribed conduct from “bad” to “good”. The killing off and forced expulsion (really a genocide) of the Cherokees by the US government (using its army) was utterly criminal. The Cherokee had prevailed in the US Supreme Court, which ruled the State of Georgia had no rights (none, nada) to act against the Cherokee Nation. Pres. Jackson (a true Native-American hater) deliberately ignored the law as stated by the Court and “genocided” the Cherokee at the behest of Georgia authorities. In 1967 Theodor Meron, the Israeli Foreign Ministry's legal adviser, reported to Levi Eshkol, the Prime Minister, in a memo marked "Top Secret" and "Extremely Urgent", his unequivocal conclusion "that civilian settlement in the administered territories contravenes the explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention." Forty years later, in 2007, he said "I believe that I would have given the same opinion today." Judge Meron, a holocaust survivor, also disclosed that the Foreign Minister, Abba Eban, was " sympathetic" to his view that civilian settlement would directly conflict with the Hague and Geneva conventions governing the conduct of occupying powers. Despite the legal opinion, Eshkol and the Labor cabinet progressively sanctioned settlements. [This paragraph paraphrases an article in the Independent]. What happened in the Jewish community of which you write, that aid and furtherance of criminal behavior (under the Geneva convention and Hague Convention statutes) by Israel became the standard for a “Good Jew”? A fundamental of criminal law everywhere (in Israel too) is that those who knowingly assist, facilitate or aid criminal behavior are also culpable under the proscriptive statute. An enterprise by a large and diverse number of people which has as its paramount object, the commission of crime, is a true criminal conspiracy, whether the object is to import and market cocaine or steal land under false claim of right. So, in my analysis, the people you describe as “Good Jews” are accomplices, facilitators and/or co-conspirators in Israel’s crime of seizing occupied Palestine. These “Good Jews” may have power, Ph.D.s, be bright, clever and rich ..... whatever.... but they are de facto criminals. They, as the Americans who genocided the Cherokee, will never be brought to the bar. That does not exonerate them or those in the Jewish community which, as you have pointed out, has been hugely complicit in the crimes against the Palestinians and their lands. Sadly, even shockingly, they boast of their complicity “as Jews”. When it comes to crime, you either are or aren't - PEP doesn't apply. Mr. Weiss, I write this as an admirer of your heroic activities on this website. In my opinion, you favor people who are honest, moral and shall I say “law-abiding”. “Bad Jew”/”Good Jew”? I gather from this post, and its antecedent, that the “Good Jew” of whom you speak favored, and was (and is) encouraged to contribute money, effort and argument to aid and advance the post-’67 confiscation of West Bank/Gaza lands to expand the Jewish State. And in the 1830’s, in Georgia, who was a “Good American”? Of course, those Americans who wanted to drive out the Cherokees, a civilized and assimilated people, from their ancient lands in Georgia. As the Cherokee were driven to death and exile at gunpoint by the then-US Defense forces, they sang “Amazing Grace” along the Trail of Tears. [This moving and stirring hymn was composed by a reformed slave-trader who anguished over his own inhumanity.] It is too bad this Christian hymn can’t somehow find its way into the suffering of the Palestinians. I made my living in the world of jurisprudence here in the US. From this I learned about “good” and “bad”. Specifically, where behavior proscribed by criminal law, it is “bad”. No amount of moral argument, religious or nationalistic ideology, or volumes of really smart semantics, can ever change proscribed conduct from “bad” to “good”. The killing off and forced expulsion (really a genocide) of the Cherokees by the US government (using its army) was utterly criminal. The Cherokee had prevailed in the US Supreme Court, which ruled the State of Georgia had no rights (none, nada) to act against the Cherokee Nation. Pres. Jackson (a true Native-American hater) deliberately ignored the law as stated by the Court and “genocided” the Cherokee at the behest of Georgia authorities. In 1967 Theodor Meron, the Israeli Foreign Ministry's legal adviser, reported to Levi Eshkol, the Prime Minister, in a memo marked "Top Secret" and "Extremely Urgent", his unequivocal conclusion "that civilian settlement in the administered territories contravenes the explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention." Forty years later, in 2007, he said "I believe that I would have given the same opinion today." Judge Meron, a holocaust survivor, also disclosed that the Foreign Minister, Abba Eban, was " sympathetic" to his view that civilian settlement would directly conflict with the Hague and Geneva conventions governing the conduct of occupying powers. Despite the legal opinion, Eshkol and the Labor cabinet progressively sanctioned settlements. [This paragraph paraphrases an article in the Independent]. What happened in the Jewish community of which you write, that aid and furtherance of criminal behavior (under the Geneva convention and Hague Convention statutes) by Israel became the standard for a “Good Jew”? A fundamental of criminal law everywhere (in Israel too) is that those who knowingly assist, facilitate or aid criminal behavior are also culpable under the proscriptive statute. An enterprise by a large and diverse number of people which has as its paramount object, the commission of crime, is a true criminal conspiracy, whether the object is to import and market cocaine or steal land under false claim of right. So, in my analysis, the people you describe as “Good Jews” are accomplices, facilitators and/or co-conspirators in Israel’s crime of seizing occupied Palestine. These “Good Jews” may have power, Ph.D.s, be bright, clever and rich ….. whatever…. but they are de facto criminals. They, as the Americans who genocided the Cherokee, will never be brought to the bar. That does not exonerate them or those in the Jewish community which, as you have pointed out, has been hugely complicit in the crimes against the Palestinians and their lands. Sadly, even shockingly, they boast of their complicity “as Jews”. When it comes to crime, you either are or aren't – PEP doesn't apply.

]]> By: Jacobwolfen http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-79315 Jacobwolfen Sun, 10 May 2009 16:27:37 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-79315 But no proof that there was no firing? Responding to charges he had released only a "watered down" version of the report by a four-member U.N. Board of Inquiry (BoI), Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon vehemently denied the accusation. "I would like to categorically reject any impression, any word, called watered down," he told reporters Tuesday. "I told you that this Board of Inquiry is independent. I respect the complete independence of this report." Yet Mondoweiss still posts a misleading headline. But then we can not hold Weiss to any standards at all. But no proof that there was no firing? Responding to charges he had released only a "watered down" version of the report by a four-member U.N. Board of Inquiry (BoI), Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon vehemently denied the accusation. "I would like to categorically reject any impression, any word, called watered down," he told reporters Tuesday. "I told you that this Board of Inquiry is independent. I respect the complete independence of this report." Yet Mondoweiss still posts a misleading headline. But then we can not hold Weiss to any standards at all.

]]> By: max http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-68931 max Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-68931 <p>Not all Jews get to review the book.<br /> Tony Judt did not get asked to review the book.<br /> How about that; I wonder why?<br /> Now that would be interesting.</p> Not all Jews get to review the book.
Tony Judt did not get asked to review the book.
How about that; I wonder why?
Now that would be interesting.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-68932 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-68932 <p>Jimmy Carter commented on the book on an interview with Charlie Rose a couple weeks ago, that he hadn't yet read it, but understood the thesis.</p> <p>I would hope that he would respond as I did (to the article, I haven't read the book), that the content examining who influenced what and how, was interesting but not all that informative.</p> <p>And, that notwithstanding the many statements of "we don't mean to infer a monolithic conspiracy", still elaborated as if that was exactly what they were speaking about.</p> Jimmy Carter commented on the book on an interview with Charlie Rose a couple weeks ago, that he hadn't yet read it, but understood the thesis.

I would hope that he would respond as I did (to the article, I haven't read the book), that the content examining who influenced what and how, was interesting but not all that informative.

And, that notwithstanding the many statements of "we don't mean to infer a monolithic conspiracy", still elaborated as if that was exactly what they were speaking about.

]]> By: Kathy http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-68933 Kathy Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-68933 <p>To Richard Witty, I have faithfully followed your comments on this and other blogs. I am astounded that you have not taken the time to read the Mearsheimer/Walt book.</p> To Richard Witty, I have faithfully followed your comments on this and other blogs. I am astounded that you have not taken the time to read the Mearsheimer/Walt book.

]]> By: Marco Ross http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-68934 Marco Ross Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-68934 <p>They have to get Jews to review the book to ensure that it is well-trashed.<br /> Goyim (like me) do not love Israel. We "support" it to the extent that we wish it well.<br /> With the exception of a few crazy fundies, I have never met a gentile who spends any more time thinking about Israel than about Belgium.<br /> </p> They have to get Jews to review the book to ensure that it is well-trashed.
Goyim (like me) do not love Israel. We "support" it to the extent that we wish it well.
With the exception of a few crazy fundies, I have never met a gentile who spends any more time thinking about Israel than about Belgium.

]]> By: Max http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-68935 Max Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-68935 <p>Remembering the reviews of Fritz Stern's last book-Five Germany's I have Know-I would guess that he also would not be allowed to review<br /> the MW book. <br /> Any more? Dennis Prager would be allowed however </p> Remembering the reviews of Fritz Stern's last book-Five Germany's I have Know-I would guess that he also would not be allowed to review
the MW book.
Any more? Dennis Prager would be allowed however

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-68936 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-68936 <p>When the book is available in my public library, I'll probably read it.</p> <p>The article and interviews were available on the web, which I have read.</p> <p>I was NOT impressed with scholarship of the article, not for lack of supporting documentation, but for the willingness to generalize, and particularly to adopt positions later in the article that they claimed to renounce early in the article. (The Jewish lobby is not monolithic but VERY diverse, not centrally coordinated, and legal.)</p> When the book is available in my public library, I'll probably read it.

The article and interviews were available on the web, which I have read.

I was NOT impressed with scholarship of the article, not for lack of supporting documentation, but for the willingness to generalize, and particularly to adopt positions later in the article that they claimed to renounce early in the article. (The Jewish lobby is not monolithic but VERY diverse, not centrally coordinated, and legal.)

]]> By: RAWAH http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-68937 RAWAH Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-68937 <p>David Duke reviewed it. He loved it.</p> David Duke reviewed it. He loved it.

]]> By: MM http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/do-the-goyim-ge.html/comment-page-1#comment-68938 MM Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/12/do-the-goyim-ge.html#comment-68938 <p>Has Wolf Blitzer had them in The AIPAC Comedy Room yet?</p> <p>If Israel were the shining democracy its apologists describe, would it really need so much "love" from American Jews and so many guns, tanks, and missiles from the U.S. to survive?</p> <p>But alas, colonialism is quite expensive. An equal-opportunity bankruptor of empires. Next up: ours.</p> <p>Richard Witty, could you cite any examples of W&M making generalizations? Or are you making a general statement about their shoddy generalizations? Or more succinctly, could you just explain where your and Abraham Foxman's views of W&M's work diverge? Thanks.</p> Has Wolf Blitzer had them in The AIPAC Comedy Room yet?

If Israel were the shining democracy its apologists describe, would it really need so much "love" from American Jews and so many guns, tanks, and missiles from the U.S. to survive?

But alas, colonialism is quite expensive. An equal-opportunity bankruptor of empires. Next up: ours.

Richard Witty, could you cite any examples of W&M making generalizations? Or are you making a general statement about their shoddy generalizations? Or more succinctly, could you just explain where your and Abraham Foxman's views of W&M's work diverge? Thanks.

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