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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;It&#8217;s Hopeless!&#8217; Cynthia Ozick on the Battle With &#8216;Jewish Defamers of Israel&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 21:50:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mishal</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68607</link>
		<dc:creator>Mishal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68607</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can&#039;t believe they so unabashedly attacked Haaretz and upheld the NYT...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hmm, is there a better term than just &quot;Zionist&quot; to describe the anti-post-Zionist?&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#39;t believe they so unabashedly attacked Haaretz and upheld the NYT&#8230;</p>
<p>Hmm, is there a better term than just &quot;Zionist&quot; to describe the anti-post-Zionist?</p>
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		<title>By: Montag</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68608</link>
		<dc:creator>Montag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68608</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mishal,&lt;br /&gt;
How about &quot;schlemiel?&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They probably didn&#039;t want to mention Iraq because they didn&#039;t want to rub salt in the wound.  They don&#039;t feel that Iraq is as &quot;righteous&quot; as Israel&#039;s march to Massada.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mishal,<br />
How about &quot;schlemiel?&quot;</p>
<p>They probably didn&#39;t want to mention Iraq because they didn&#39;t want to rub salt in the wound.  They don&#39;t feel that Iraq is as &quot;righteous&quot; as Israel&#39;s march to Massada.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68609</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68609</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey Phil - would you tell us how old are you are (at least roughly)?  I&#039;m guessing about 40 or a little higher but maybe that&#039;s wrong.  Anyway it would help in understanding your comments on this post in context.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Phil &#8211; would you tell us how old are you are (at least roughly)?  I&#39;m guessing about 40 or a little higher but maybe that&#39;s wrong.  Anyway it would help in understanding your comments on this post in context.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68610</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68610</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey Phil - would you tell us how old are you are (at least roughly)?  I&#039;m guessing about 40 or a little higher but maybe that&#039;s wrong.  Anyway it would help in understanding your comments on this post in context.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Phil &#8211; would you tell us how old are you are (at least roughly)?  I&#39;m guessing about 40 or a little higher but maybe that&#39;s wrong.  Anyway it would help in understanding your comments on this post in context.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68611</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68611</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mishal has an important question: &quot;Is there a better term than just &#039;Zionist&#039; to describe the anti-post-Zionist?&quot; I have been grappling with that for a while now. It is a term that is currently used to describe both the &quot;messianic&quot; and the &quot;national/political&quot;, according to Rabbi Berger.&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.ameu.org/printer.asp?iid=91&amp;aid=308&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Criticism of Zionists, as far as I can tell, is solely directed at the latter. The question is whether it is fair to the former not to make the proper distinctions. I think not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mishal has an important question: &quot;Is there a better term than just &#39;Zionist&#39; to describe the anti-post-Zionist?&quot; I have been grappling with that for a while now. It is a term that is currently used to describe both the &quot;messianic&quot; and the &quot;national/political&quot;, according to Rabbi Berger.<br />
<a href="http://www.ameu.org/printer.asp?iid=91&#038;aid=308/p">link to ameu.org</a></p>
<p>Criticism of Zionists, as far as I can tell, is solely directed at the latter. The question is whether it is fair to the former not to make the proper distinctions. I think not.</p>
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		<title>By: ej</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68612</link>
		<dc:creator>ej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68612</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Distinguished profs do not delegitimize Israel.&lt;br /&gt;
Israel delegitimizes Israel.&lt;br /&gt;
Profs, distinguished and undistinguished, merely do what profs are supposed to do.&lt;br /&gt;
Interesting implicit damning of that bulwark of integrity, the NYT.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Distinguished profs do not delegitimize Israel.<br />
Israel delegitimizes Israel.<br />
Profs, distinguished and undistinguished, merely do what profs are supposed to do.<br />
Interesting implicit damning of that bulwark of integrity, the NYT.</p>
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		<title>By: ej</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68613</link>
		<dc:creator>ej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68613</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Distinguished profs do not delegitimize Israel.&lt;br /&gt;
Israel delegitimizes Israel.&lt;br /&gt;
Profs, distinguished and undistinguished, merely do what profs are supposed to do.&lt;br /&gt;
Interesting implicit damning of that bulwark of integrity, the NYT.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Distinguished profs do not delegitimize Israel.<br />
Israel delegitimizes Israel.<br />
Profs, distinguished and undistinguished, merely do what profs are supposed to do.<br />
Interesting implicit damning of that bulwark of integrity, the NYT.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68614</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68614</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Phil is 52, maybe 53 now.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You speak of the younger generation becoming alienated from Israel.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;At home, I am both supportive (as in belonging) and very critical of Israel.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My sons are more interested in Israel than I. They both study Hebrew, which I would never. My older son is going to Israel on one of the birthright programs. The only way that I would be willing for him to go, would be if the program were definitively NOT propaganda, not biased, not rah-rah.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The program that he chose clearly isn&#039;t propaganda. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He does have an experience of both anti-semitism in his life (a striking one, if not a violent one), and of connection to his parents, grandparents, and even great-grand-parents history.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You speak in terms of the relaxation of anti-semitism as a reality. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you truly believe that that is true, why do you think it is?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The holocaust was certainly over the edge, but long history of persecution was accepted for generations and generations by liberal Europeans. And, if the relaxation of anti-semitism is so deep to be confident, why would that have occurred?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For myself, I&#039;m not that confident of it, as I hear the permission to express anti-semitism occur more frequently recently than at any time during my life.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;The injury is fresh&quot;. I think you fail to understand human psychology clearly. A man of 62, still with his wits and conscience at any point, is probably still skeptical, still questioning his own assumptions.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is it possible that current rhetoric is familiar and fits the profile of genuine danger, even if not frequently or directly experienced overtly?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;From your articles, I expect that my hope for change takes a different form than your own.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil is 52, maybe 53 now.</p>
<p>You speak of the younger generation becoming alienated from Israel.</p>
<p>At home, I am both supportive (as in belonging) and very critical of Israel.</p>
<p>My sons are more interested in Israel than I. They both study Hebrew, which I would never. My older son is going to Israel on one of the birthright programs. The only way that I would be willing for him to go, would be if the program were definitively NOT propaganda, not biased, not rah-rah.</p>
<p>The program that he chose clearly isn&#39;t propaganda. </p>
<p>He does have an experience of both anti-semitism in his life (a striking one, if not a violent one), and of connection to his parents, grandparents, and even great-grand-parents history.</p>
<p>You speak in terms of the relaxation of anti-semitism as a reality. </p>
<p>If you truly believe that that is true, why do you think it is?</p>
<p>The holocaust was certainly over the edge, but long history of persecution was accepted for generations and generations by liberal Europeans. And, if the relaxation of anti-semitism is so deep to be confident, why would that have occurred?</p>
<p>For myself, I&#39;m not that confident of it, as I hear the permission to express anti-semitism occur more frequently recently than at any time during my life.</p>
<p>&quot;The injury is fresh&quot;. I think you fail to understand human psychology clearly. A man of 62, still with his wits and conscience at any point, is probably still skeptical, still questioning his own assumptions.</p>
<p>Is it possible that current rhetoric is familiar and fits the profile of genuine danger, even if not frequently or directly experienced overtly?</p>
<p>From your articles, I expect that my hope for change takes a different form than your own.</p>
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		<title>By: ej</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68615</link>
		<dc:creator>ej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68615</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;RW:&lt;br /&gt;
your son is going to Israel on a &#039;birthright&#039; program. What fucking birthright?&lt;br /&gt;
I hope that the occupied territories are included in the curriculum. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RW:<br />
your son is going to Israel on a &#39;birthright&#39; program. What fucking birthright?<br />
I hope that the occupied territories are included in the curriculum. </p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/earlier-today-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-68616</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/22/earlier-today-c.html#comment-68616</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rabbi Michael Lerner&#039;s son is in the IDF paratroopers.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We have our own voices. Our children&#039;s are their own.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Phil implied that the Jewish youth are alienated from Judaism.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I convey that that is at most partially true.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The question is what is desired, and what actions on his part does he think is important.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He&#039;s stated that he is an assimilationist. He doesn&#039;t have children.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I do, and that constitutes a living natural tradition to me, in contrast to his armchair philosophical.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabbi Michael Lerner&#39;s son is in the IDF paratroopers.</p>
<p>We have our own voices. Our children&#39;s are their own.</p>
<p>Phil implied that the Jewish youth are alienated from Judaism.</p>
<p>I convey that that is at most partially true.</p>
<p>The question is what is desired, and what actions on his part does he think is important.</p>
<p>He&#39;s stated that he is an assimilationist. He doesn&#39;t have children.</p>
<p>I do, and that constitutes a living natural tradition to me, in contrast to his armchair philosophical.</p>
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