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	<title>Comments on: Perestroika: James Fallows Says &#8220;Mainly&#8230; Jewish&#8221; Faction Pushes for Iran Showdown</title>
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	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 21:50:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68547</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68547</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hardball conversation:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;PJB did mention the neoconservatives....the burden is upon the general population to educate themselves about what is going on. PJB may be getting tired of taking arrows for his criticism of the War Party, the destruction of  the American working class thru job outsourcing to India and China etc. As he approaches 70, the old Nixonian whom Nixon described as &quot;intellectually brillant&quot; according to Monica Crowley may be looking to a new generation to take up the fight. He may also be concerned about getting his contract with MSNBC renewed. PJB is a figure of hate for the Jewish community--they all parrot that he is &quot;an isolationist bigot.&quot; Better to speak in code and hope  that alert viewers can pick up on what he is saying or read his more candid remarks in the American Conservative magazine.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hardball conversation:</p>
<p>PJB did mention the neoconservatives&#8230;.the burden is upon the general population to educate themselves about what is going on. PJB may be getting tired of taking arrows for his criticism of the War Party, the destruction of  the American working class thru job outsourcing to India and China etc. As he approaches 70, the old Nixonian whom Nixon described as &quot;intellectually brillant&quot; according to Monica Crowley may be looking to a new generation to take up the fight. He may also be concerned about getting his contract with MSNBC renewed. PJB is a figure of hate for the Jewish community&#8211;they all parrot that he is &quot;an isolationist bigot.&quot; Better to speak in code and hope  that alert viewers can pick up on what he is saying or read his more candid remarks in the American Conservative magazine.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68548</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68548</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You yourself elevate the effect of AIPAC by the generalization that it is THE Israel Lobby.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What do you propose as a practical alternative in relation to Iran?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That would be substantive.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You yourself elevate the effect of AIPAC by the generalization that it is THE Israel Lobby.</p>
<p>What do you propose as a practical alternative in relation to Iran?</p>
<p>That would be substantive.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68549</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68549</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Deterrence works&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1. Iran can be deterred. The old Soviet Union had 30K nukes and they never dared used one against the U.S. The War party wants us to worry about Iran with just a few possible nukes and no means to deliver them.....why would Iran commit suicide and use them against the U.S?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The real reason for AIPAC wanting war with Iran is that they want the US to do Israel&#039;s business for it. AIPAC may fear that a nuclear-armed Iran means more emigration from Israel and hence a weaker Israel.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A drop in tensions in the Mideast would lead to a drop in oil prices and expose the weaknesses of the Iranian regime. The new regime might simply drop the nuke program. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt; Giuliani advisor David Frum wrote the speech calling Iran part of the &quot;Axis of Evil&quot; a few months after Iran helped the US topple their mutual enemy the Taliban. Hence, the Iran regime&#039;s decision to develop a weapon of deterrence seems reasonable on  their part. What would you expect a rational regime to do, Mr Witty?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Why should Americans die for Israel? What is at stake for America? So what if Iran controls the region for a while... All oil will be consumed within 20 years so the region wont matter at all to the U.S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deterrence works</p>
<p>1. Iran can be deterred. The old Soviet Union had 30K nukes and they never dared used one against the U.S. The War party wants us to worry about Iran with just a few possible nukes and no means to deliver them&#8230;..why would Iran commit suicide and use them against the U.S?</p>
<p>The real reason for AIPAC wanting war with Iran is that they want the US to do Israel&#39;s business for it. AIPAC may fear that a nuclear-armed Iran means more emigration from Israel and hence a weaker Israel.</p>
<p>A drop in tensions in the Mideast would lead to a drop in oil prices and expose the weaknesses of the Iranian regime. The new regime might simply drop the nuke program. </p>
<p> Giuliani advisor David Frum wrote the speech calling Iran part of the &quot;Axis of Evil&quot; a few months after Iran helped the US topple their mutual enemy the Taliban. Hence, the Iran regime&#39;s decision to develop a weapon of deterrence seems reasonable on  their part. What would you expect a rational regime to do, Mr Witty?</p>
<p>Why should Americans die for Israel? What is at stake for America? So what if Iran controls the region for a while&#8230; All oil will be consumed within 20 years so the region wont matter at all to the U.S.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68550</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68550</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;It&#039;s just a matter of time before this sort of self-censorship ends.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Being careful (full of care) about one&#039;s words is not an example of &quot;self-censorship&quot;, but is in fact mature freedom of speech.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;It&#39;s just a matter of time before this sort of self-censorship ends.&quot;</p>
<p>Being careful (full of care) about one&#39;s words is not an example of &quot;self-censorship&quot;, but is in fact mature freedom of speech.</p>
</p>
<p></p>
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		<title>By: Renfro</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68551</link>
		<dc:creator>Renfro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68551</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is all anyone needs to understand the Israeli lobby or any other special interest lobby or the people behind them. And the American founders warned us about this a long time ago. They understood that our &quot;democratic tools&quot; of representation and free speech would make America a perfect target and vehicle for those who would  pervert those  democratic engines and use this nation for their own foreign or special interest purpose.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think we are approaching the point where we Americans must destroy our government in order to rebuild it on it&#039;s original principles and save the nation.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Geo Washington Farewell Address 1779&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt; And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. But that jealousy to be useful must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt; Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion. &quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all anyone needs to understand the Israeli lobby or any other special interest lobby or the people behind them. And the American founders warned us about this a long time ago. They understood that our &quot;democratic tools&quot; of representation and free speech would make America a perfect target and vehicle for those who would  pervert those  democratic engines and use this nation for their own foreign or special interest purpose.</p>
<p>I think we are approaching the point where we Americans must destroy our government in order to rebuild it on it&#39;s original principles and save the nation.</p>
<p>Geo Washington Farewell Address 1779</p>
<p>&quot;So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. </p>
<p>It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld.</p>
<p> And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation. </p>
<p>Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. But that jealousy to be useful must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other.</p>
<p> Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests. </p>
<p>However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion. &quot;</p>
<p></p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68552</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68552</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;PJB does mention the Israel lobby and more than once.  So much so that the ADL has mounted a campaign against him:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.adl.org/special_reports/buchanan_own_words/buchanan_intro.asp&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is hard to ask PJB to speak out more as he just get pillared.  There are strength in numbers in this respect.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I also have to say if the push for a War with Iran picks up this stuff will have a lot more resonance.  Right now, the push for war with Iran is in a strange stage, its not full on and its not off.  This type of slow burn makes it hard to rally regular folks into opposition, but it may be effective at possibly slowly converting the general public.  The reason is that the Israel lobby is about a number of levels involving a complex domestic political group that requires some thought, while many of the pro-War propaganda deal with scaring the American public, a much more direct visceral message.  These two messages can&#039;t compare.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think that making fun of the war mongerers and demonstrating that they are trying to scare people is an effective strategy, similar to what Jon Stewart and others have been doing.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PJB does mention the Israel lobby and more than once.  So much so that the ADL has mounted a campaign against him:</p>
<p>http://www.adl.org/special_reports/buchanan_own_words/buchanan_intro.asp</p>
<p>It is hard to ask PJB to speak out more as he just get pillared.  There are strength in numbers in this respect.</p>
<p>I also have to say if the push for a War with Iran picks up this stuff will have a lot more resonance.  Right now, the push for war with Iran is in a strange stage, its not full on and its not off.  This type of slow burn makes it hard to rally regular folks into opposition, but it may be effective at possibly slowly converting the general public.  The reason is that the Israel lobby is about a number of levels involving a complex domestic political group that requires some thought, while many of the pro-War propaganda deal with scaring the American public, a much more direct visceral message.  These two messages can&#39;t compare.</p>
<p>I think that making fun of the war mongerers and demonstrating that they are trying to scare people is an effective strategy, similar to what Jon Stewart and others have been doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68553</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68553</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Crap, the above comment really should have been proofread.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Either way, I don&#039;t think that Pat Buchanan speaking out more on this will change things.  The truth is there is significant financial strength in the Israel lobby and its not going to go away.  People can attack it in various ways, but it has enough money to fund and raise in prominence those that support it.  That is the function of the well funded WINEP, JINSA and AEI think tanks.  Money can force issues in US politics and in recent years, many groups have refined this to a science.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I am not sure what the solution is.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Here is an interesting essay from today&#039;s Guardian:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/10/23/libertarians-are-the-true-social-parasites/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crap, the above comment really should have been proofread.</p>
<p>Either way, I don&#39;t think that Pat Buchanan speaking out more on this will change things.  The truth is there is significant financial strength in the Israel lobby and its not going to go away.  People can attack it in various ways, but it has enough money to fund and raise in prominence those that support it.  That is the function of the well funded WINEP, JINSA and AEI think tanks.  Money can force issues in US politics and in recent years, many groups have refined this to a science.</p>
<p>I am not sure what the solution is.</p>
<p>Here is an interesting essay from today&#39;s Guardian:</p>
<p>http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/10/23/libertarians-are-the-true-social-parasites/</p>
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		<title>By: worthingfr</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68554</link>
		<dc:creator>worthingfr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68554</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mr. Witty, you ask &#039;What do you propose as a practical alternative in relation to Iran?&#039;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Would you please explain what *America* need do *anything* in relation to Iran?  I certainly see how Iran is a problem for Israel, but explain how it is a problem for the U.S.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Witty, you ask &#39;What do you propose as a practical alternative in relation to Iran?&#39;</p>
<p>Would you please explain what *America* need do *anything* in relation to Iran?  I certainly see how Iran is a problem for Israel, but explain how it is a problem for the U.S.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68555</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68555</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Iran: not a threat&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Iran is no threat to the U.S. in any meaningful sense....The Zionists just want us to do their dirty work for them.....in the 1930&#039;s Zionists wanted us to go to war against Hitler...hmm why did the Zionists not just asasinate Hitler? Did they even try? Nope--just get the goyim to do the dirty work. At least in the 1930&#039;s we had Lindberg &lt;br /&gt;
to offset their propaganda machine. Today, we only have a few lonely voices like Ron Paul....notice how Hannity treats Paul after he wins the phone in vote on Fox news?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iran: not a threat</p>
<p>Iran is no threat to the U.S. in any meaningful sense&#8230;.The Zionists just want us to do their dirty work for them&#8230;..in the 1930&#39;s Zionists wanted us to go to war against Hitler&#8230;hmm why did the Zionists not just asasinate Hitler? Did they even try? Nope&#8211;just get the goyim to do the dirty work. At least in the 1930&#39;s we had Lindberg <br />
to offset their propaganda machine. Today, we only have a few lonely voices like Ron Paul&#8230;.notice how Hannity treats Paul after he wins the phone in vote on Fox news?</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2007/10/waltmearsheimer.html/comment-page-1#comment-68556</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2007/10/23/waltmearsheimer.html#comment-68556</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bill Bennet&#039;s price at the AEI&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I wonder how much the AEI pays Bill Bennett (Book of Virtues, $8M gambler) to sit on their board and encourage Americans to believe that Israel&#039;s existence is in the US national interest.&lt;br /&gt;
Is selling your country out for a few nickels virtuous, Bill?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Bennet&#39;s price at the AEI</p>
<p>I wonder how much the AEI pays Bill Bennett (Book of Virtues, $8M gambler) to sit on their board and encourage Americans to believe that Israel&#39;s existence is in the US national interest.<br />
Is selling your country out for a few nickels virtuous, Bill?</p>
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