Also, it is pretty clear that American Jews are more willing to intermarry with other "whites" or "asians." There are very few intermarriages with African Americans. This may be because the gap between average social status (and other related measures) is much larger between Jews and African Americans than between other groups. To me, it is the most disadvantaged who have the most to gain via reducing this "genetic gap", the largest pay off both for themselves and for society at large.

I think that the gap between IQs between ethnic groups is bound to close within a couple generations one way or the other. I think that gaps between average IQs of developed weathly nations and poorer nations will continue until the technology for this type of manipulation spreads. I think that in the near term there will likely be many voices that argue against manipulation in this regards as it would represent the loss, in business speak, of a "competitive advantage." It is also a difficult subject to breach.

This is difficult territory in general to discuss.

You are very right that this is going to be a short lived phenomena now that there we are so urbanized and in a high technology/service type of culture in the West. There is huge demand for these types of traits, and technology for manipulation of these traits is within relative reach. There are huge ethical issues and also safety issues with these types of manipulations (which will likely take a couple decades to resolve at least, even though the technology is here to do the basic manipulations.) I think that America may not be the leader in these types of manipulations based on the idiocyncacies in its culture, I think it is much more likely to be something that China embraces before we do, although China is more homogeneous in its population's genetic makeup which means that it is easier to control interactions.

I think that there is a "genetic divide", in much the same way there is a "digital divide" and that we should approach it in the type of mind set. Acknowledging that there is an issue that leads to imbalances and that overall hurts our economy is half the battle. Pretending that segments of our society are just lazy or don't show enough initiative are glossing over the facts of the situation.

Right now reproductive trends in many segments of American society are not exactly what can be considered "eugenic", thus I do disagree with Philip on his argument that this will spread naturally through out the population, there will be some spread of these genetic traits but relying on interbreeding alone would dozens of generations.

I think the future could entail the emergence of a type of Monsanto for human beings. A couple decades off still, but you can sketch out the general outline of how such endeavors could work.

You are right in a way. You obviously didn't read the article that Philip linked to. In it Murray says that some types of assimilation are a way of filtering less bright Jews away from Judaism. Murray was talking about ancient times, but it is still somewhat relevant today:

"If you were dumb and a Jew, it was a lot easier to be a Christian."

I suggest reading through Murray's longer take in Commentary. My interpretation of your comment is that you only have a light grasp on the subject:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm?id=10855

If Jews value learning, does that translate into only the smart breeding, the smart breeding more, or does it just mean Jewish culture is a culture of learning, which means Jews are more educated and are taught to think, rather than innate intelligence? Further, do Jews have more opportunities through the hordeing of resources and doleing them out solely to Jews? Before you scream "anti-Semite" realize that there is as much proof for what I say as what y'all say… minimal and anecdotal.

Everyone, read what you write. Do you not see why there would be anti-semitism if this is how you perceive yourself, as better than everyone else?

Almost every ethnic group I have ever run into to had some pride.

Defenestrator wrote: "If Jews value learning, does that translate into only the smart breeding, the smart breeding more, or does it just mean Jewish culture is a culture of learning, which means Jews are more educated and are taught to think, rather than innate intelligence?"

The interesting thing is that the Jewish strategy as outlined by Murry doesn't mean that only the smart breed, but rather only those who were sufficiently educated and interested in the complexities of Halakha remains Jews, the rest assimilated. This is only possible if there is another population to assimilate into (and Murray gives the example of Christianity, an offshot of Judaism, as one alternative that "dumb Jews" could assimilate into it.)

The truth is that it is probably a combination of nuture and nature, both feeding into each other.

Defenestrator wrote: "Further, do Jews have more opportunities through the hordeing of resources and doleing them out solely to Jews?"

It is built into the genetic structure of humans to favor those we perceive as similar to us (kinship), either in general culture or ethnicity or religion. Members of any community, be it a neighborhood, church, etc, help each other. There are studies those that show that as diversity increases in a neighborhood, there is more suspicion and less cooperation, which is probably a result of those communities no longer perceiving each other as true kinship partners, but rather competitors. This is a long term problem is in society.

I think you are identifying universal qualities associated with ethnic groups in general and then applying them only to Jews.

There are smart Jews and dumb Jews, same as there are smart and dumb anything.

The value of learning is cultural, and worth retaining as a value, even if it doesn't result in income as much as other characteristics.

We have enough, so therefore can afford some leisure, and some good use of it.

Please join JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE & BAY AREA WOMEN IN BLACK
in a discussion and book-reading with writer/poet activist/scholar

MELANIE KAYE/KANTROWITZ
celebrating her new book
THE COLORS OF JEWS: RACIAL POLITICS & RADICAL DIASPORISM
Sunday, Nov. 4, 4-6pm
Cafe Leila, 1724 San Pablo Ave., Berkeley,(between University Ave. and Francisco)

THE COLOR OF JEWS examines views on Jews and whiteness – as well as the complexities of African/Jewish relations, the racial mix and disparate voices of the Jewish community, contemporary Jewish anti-racist and multicultural models, and the diasporic state of Jewish life in the United States.

Kaye-Kantrowitz's new book is a rich and exciting exploration of multicultural Jewish identity, a de-centering of Israel, a re-centering of Diaspora in Jewish life, and a look at what this all means for progressive Jewish activism. It greatly expanded my understanding of what it means to be Jewish.
–Paul Kivel

Mind-stretching, moving, and pragmatic … this is a book of hope.
– Adrienne Rich

Dr. Melanie Kaye/Kantrowitz was founding director of Jews for Racial and Economic Justice in NYC. She is a member of the Advisory Board of Jewish Voice for Peace. A women's studies pioneer, Melanie continues to be active in anti-war, lgbt, feminist, anti-racist, and labor movements. Previous books include THE ISSUE IS POWER & MY JEWISH FACE – and THE TRIBE OF DINA, co-edited with Irena Klepfisz.

$10 Donation requested to cover expenses, no one turned away. You are also welcome to join us after the reading, from 6:30pm-8:30pm for a dinner reception for Melanie (additional $15 requested for dinner)

Save the date for this upcoming events:

Nov 28, 7.30 pm film screening, YOUNG, JEWISH AND LEFT

Nov 29, 7.30 pm, book reading, ALICE ROTHCHILD: BROKEN PROMISES, BROKEN DREAMS, STORIES OF JEWISH AND PALESTINIAN TRAUMA AND RESILIENCE

for more info on these events, go to link to jewishvoiceforpeace.org
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