There’s an attack on Norman in Jewlicious, referring to comments he made about his Jewishness in Nextbook, but the best piece I’ve seen is The American Conservative’s interview of five years back. The folks from TAC asked about Israel and the neocons:
NM: I start with a set of
simple, unsophisticated notions about Israel. It was such a small
country when it began. If the Arab leaders had had any kind of human
goodness in them, they could have said, these people have been through
hell. Let’s treat them with Islamic courtesy, the way we are supposed
to treat strangers. Instead they declared them the enemy. The Israelis
had no choice but to become strong and to get allied with us. In the
course of doing so, some of the best aspects of the Jewish
nature—irony, the love of truth, the love of wisdom and justice,
suffered internal depredations.Once
it was a matter of saving their country, everything changed. Quantity
changes quality, which may be the best three words Engels ever wrote.
Quantity changes quality. As the Israelis became tougher, so they lost
any hard-earned and elevated objectivity, any high and disinterested
search for social value. The logo became Israel, my Israel. That was
inevitable. It is also tragic, I think. Israel is now one more
powerhouse in the world. But what they’ve lost is special. Now, they
treat the Palestinians as if the Palestinians were ghetto Jews. It is
one of the great ironies. You know, the older you get, the more you
begin to depend upon irony as the last human element you can rely on.
Whatever exists will, sooner or later, be turned inside out.AC: Do you think there is any way they can escape that dilemma with the Palestinians?
NM:I
don’t see how. Not right now. It may be that what they feel is that if
they don’t gamble now, they will be destroyed later. If a war with Iraq
ends with Americans installed there, Israel could feel more secure for
decades to come. But it could prove a dangerous support. For a good
many powerful Americans, the future question in Empire might become:
How much is our support of Israel still to our advantage and how much
to our disadvantage? The realpolitikers in the American establishment
have to have mixed feelings even now about Israel. The neo-cons may
feel this is our best shot, this is our best opportunity, this is the
moment when we have to take a chance because, if we don’t now, we are
likely to be doomed 10, 20, 30 years down the road.But,
again, I say, you don’t gamble that way. I’ve always been thoroughly
opposed to gambling with your last thousand bucks. Especially if you
have a family. That is one reason I am a Left-Conservative. That is the
conservative part of me.[There is an] inner crisis in Israel. I think they are ready
to say: We are no longer humanists. We’ve become the opposite of
ourselves. Still, we protect the country. We dare the unknown. If
Saddam unloads on us? If a large part of Israel is lost to such a war?
Well, sometimes one must undergo serious surgery. I think the Sharons
are ready for that. Of course, the neocons here will not be losing
their own arm or leg or lungs.
That guy was wicked smart…
Liked to box, too. "Why be a bookish intellectual?"
Wicked smart? What a fucking idiotic PUTZ:
"If the Arab leaders had had any kind of human goodness in them, they could have said, these people have been through hell. Let’s treat them with Islamic courtesy, the way we are supposed to treat strangers. Instead they declared them the enemy."
Oh, gee, Norm, did you ever think about the ethnic cleansing as a reason for not treating the colonialist invaders with "Islamic courtesy"?
This quote reveals profound stupidity and total lack of understanding.
Fuck you, Mailer.
I like Mailer’s writing because on most issues, he was generally brutally honest. But, like most Jews, when it came to his own tribe, he apparently lived in a world of denial.
In particular, I object to his narrative, which frames the Jewish Zionists as victims: "If the Arab leaders had had any kind of human goodness in them, they could have said, these people have been through hell. Let’s treat them with Islamic courtesy, the way we are supposed to treat strangers. Instead they declared them the enemy. The Israelis had no choice but to become strong and to get allied with us."
This portrays premeditated Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestinians merely as a defensive measure, which we now know to be untrue. Even the Israeli government is slowly admitting as much. From UPI:
'Historic revisionism is now under way. Without fanfare, just below the media radar screen, the Israeli Education Ministry has approved a textbook for Arab third-graders in Israel that concedes the war that gave birth to Israel was a “nakba” for the Palestinians. The textbook refers to the “expulsion” of some of the Palestinians and the “confiscation of many Arab-owned lands.”…Ilan Pappe, an Israeli historian and Haifa University lecturer, whose ninth book is titled “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine,” documents how Israel was born with lands forcibly seized from its Palestinian inhabitants who had lived there for hundreds of years.'
http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Emerging_Threats/Analysis/2007/08/06/commentary_embarrassing_history/1248/print_view/
I also object to Mailer's spin that the neocons saw lying the US into the Iraq war on behalf of Israel as their "best shot, this is our best opportunity, this is the moment when we have to take a chance because, if we don’t now, we are likely to be doomed 10, 20, 30 years down the road."
Again, by ignoring the fact that the neocons were, and are, working toward a Jewish empire built upon the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and the subjugation of Iraqis and other Muslims who stand in its way, he is attempting to portray Jewish fascism as merely defensive in nature, not offensive. This is nonsense, and everyone knows it.
If even Jews like Mailer live in a fantasy world denying the ongoing, malicious nature of large and influential segments of their tribe, there is little hope that average Jews will ever see the light.
That, ultimately, may be the real tragedy of the Jewish people: their stubborn refusal to examine their own bigotry, hypocrisy, narcissism, racism and malice.
It is a "tragedy" that is self-inflicted.
Two things are evident:
1. Phil should never, ever use the word "wicked" again, unless he's dissecting an L. Frank Baum allegory.
2. Intra-tribal fawning may satisfy the Witty contingent but it hardly makes this blog interesting. I'm not saying wail away at the Jews; I am saying, keep your eye on the ball, so you can crack a knuckleball like "Oh my those mean Arabs didn't even accept Jewish supremecism in the Holy Land! Hey! What gives!" straight out of the park. You have that laser too, Phil, quit toasting hot dogs with it, please.
Mailer: Wicked Smart?
A smart Jew would realize that the whole Zionist plan was and is inherently flawed.
1.There were Arabs living there,
2. the state is neither financially nor morally viable,
3. it has brought out the dual loyalty nature of Jews that makes too many of them untrustworthy. I know find myself wondering when a govt official does something against the US national interest id he Jewish…did the Lobby get to him etc
(Note to Richard Witty: US national interest is not the same thing as the Jewish transnational interest…as a rootless cosmopolitan who attempts to mask his Jewish racism behind humanitarian jargon you may be unwilling to began to empathise with the non-Jewish world and realise that we want to include you in our nation but you have to drop the dual loyalty. Or else: disaster looms for you)
we need to have transparency in govt yet people like Witty would object if we asked people like him to register as foreign agents and declare his non-US interests and just how much US blood and treasure he would like to expend on the Zionist state
RE:
"That, ultimately, may be the real tragedy of the Jewish people: their stubborn refusal to examine their own bigotry, hypocrisy, narcissism, racism and malice."
OTH, they will survive, unlike, e.g., the Nordic people.
So the Arabs of Palestine never had any choice but to fight? There was never an opportunity to make peace with the Jews and peacefully co-exist? Not after Zurich in 1929, after partition in 1947, after Camp David in 1979, after Oslo, or any times in between? Violent resistance was and is the only path?
"OTH, they will survive, unlike, e.g., the Nordic people."
Indeed, Charles, but you must have in mind that jews or rather the "thing" described by Ed are a natural component of human ecology, that is if they didn't exist they would eventually be created.
When we see the palestinians of today we see the remnants of the new testament judeans, but when we see the ashkenazi brutes, we also perceive in them the continuity of the pharisaic mindset, even if the ashkenazi himself has no significant connection to the new testament pharisees. That's because in truth the "anomaly" is not an anomaly at all, but a necessary condition of the human mind and that condition happens to be nourished (by lack of better options) in "the jews".
Bottom line: nature always opts for a more numerous "right" (as in right-handed) strategy and one or more less conspicuous sinister (as in left-handedness) strategies. Thats because there are circumstances when the right strategy does not work. Possibly our "right" human configuration is too unstable as apparent in the accelerated replacement of peoples, languages and cultures and because of that a self-obssessed, archaic mentality is needed as a backup or as a dumping component, or even as a social corrosive to accelerate the slow corruption of decadent societies and help humanity get rid of the part of it which was dragging the rest to the bottom.
The fact is jews will survive whether they like it or not, whether they are the same people of today or not, as long as there is a little jewish impetus alive they will be completely able to recreate themselves, simply because nature (or their god, whatever) has chosen them to occupy the spaces where our strategy is inneficient.
Maybe we need the jews to show us how wrong we were in the past, for they repeat our errors all the time for us to see. Maybe they point the way for us when we are stuck in medieval labyrinths or maybe they create economical depressions for us when nature wants to put an end in the excess of water pigs? Who knows?
Yes, maybe we need the jews, if only to remember us of who we are and what is, after all, good for us. Maybe the wound in american society caused by the virulent zionification of the american jewish institutions is an opportunity for the american people to rethink the past century not only in the light of their successes as they do so much, but also in the light of their excesses and mistakes. Americans are getting more fat, more ignorant, more indolent by the day. Jews are in part to blame for the dismall state of the giant, but the problem seems to be that the gentiles are very much confortable with the situation to the point of giving themselves the luxury of wreaking havoc in other countries as if they were inhabited by mites.
Americans will follow the lead of the elite jews towards empire, or follow the lead of their hearts towards a gentler future, a big swiss, maybe. The jews will be with you or with your rivals, but they surely will be.
Ok, no one but Charles read it, Sorry, Charles, if it was obscure but I felt I had to try and answer your lamment. Besides, my other option was to explain ForSubZioGoy that as father of "Compassionate Genocidalism" Richard Witty has become Nobel Peace Prize material.
Anonymous wrote: "…That's because in truth the "anomaly" is not an anomaly at all, but a necessary condition of the human mind and that condition happens to be nourished (by lack of better options) in "the jews"…"Possibly our "right" human configuration is too unstable as apparent in the accelerated replacement of peoples, languages and cultures and because of that a self-obssessed, archaic mentality is needed as a backup or as a dumping component, or even as a social corrosive to accelerate the slow corruption of decadent societies and help humanity get rid of the part of it which was dragging the rest to the bottom…nature (or their god, whatever) has chosen them to occupy the spaces where our strategy is inneficient."
The point of your post, as I interpret it, seems to be that Jews serve some natural, ecological function. You offer a variety of possibilities, perhaps the most striking of which is as a “social corrosive to…help humanity get rid of the part of it which was dragging the rest to the bottom,”
and perhaps the most insightful of which is as a preservative of the “self-obssessed, archaic” mentality in rapidly evolving societies ie the self-preservation instinct. I happen to agree with your “take,” but I disagree with its implications, which is that they (to the extent that they act collectively) have a natural right to behave the way they do.
Everything you say about the Jews could also be said about the Nazis, yet few would argue that the Nazis were serving some Darwinist function. And those who make such arguments are driven from public discourse as supremacists.
Yet when Jews embrace supremacism (which I believe is an inherent part of their religious doctrine, and as such, something they have done regularly to one degree or another under one guise or another for ages), all kinds of apologists come out of the woodwork to defend their right to do so, with all manner of excuses and justifications for their abhorrent behavior.
Yes, “the Jews” will indeed survive their own cultural Judeofascism, despite themselves. The only question is how many of us will be obliterated before their inevitable overreach results in a backlash that restores the natural order, ie the restoration of non-Zionist, non-misanthropes to positions of power and authority.
You see, speaking of nature, it is unnatural to have a tiny band of gentile hating Jews and their sycophantic shabbos goy enablers holding life or death sway over millions of people that, when it come right down to it, they deeply despise, and always will.
In laymen’s terms, it’s called putting the fox in charge of the henhouse.
Americans have made the mistake of allowing Judeofascists to get a foothold on their soil, and the country has been in an almost shocking downward spiral ever since. And again, its only natural: the Judeofascists hate the people over which they are now lording. Which direction but down does a people being led by a hate-filled elite that is hostile to their very existence expect to go?
Anonymous said: "Yes, maybe we need the jews, if only to remember us of who we are and what is, after all, good for us."
Ed grabbed the opportunity to know who we are and what is good for us (or at least what isn't good).
"…but I disagree with its implications, which is that they (to the extent that they act collectively) have a natural right to behave the way they do."
So do I. They have the same right as earthquakes: not a moral right, but a right which arises from their being part of this world. It's our task to contain the outbursts of judaic oppression, but when we try to erase their presence (not us, I mean the "right" strategy) then we just become ourselves the "thing".
"Everything you say about the Jews could also be said about the Nazis, yet few would argue that the Nazis were serving some Darwinist function."
What is the difference between nazism and christianity? Both emulates the "thing", but christianity is a form of containment, fulfillment, like channeling the lava of a volcano into the sea and turning destruction into creation and clouds, lots of clouds. But nazism is genuine "thing" material, it's something like "we need no jews here for we have become the jews ourselves." Nazism, as we can see in Israel, is a form of stationary judaism, the same laws in a different dynamic. Now we see americanism turning into another judaic emulation as America has morphed from the new Zion into the mother to Zion and then into it's lover and twin soul. Beware the founding fathers being killed by the jealous son!
Decent jews must understand that theirs is a strategy in which really evil people can flourish provided that their evilness is directed towards the gentiles. The problem is that they seem to have a fractured mind: for them a jew doing evil things does it only in a fictional universe, a universe of words and ideas, not of real beings. They are so self-restrained towards themselves that they would rather walk the path to doom than face the horror of their own actions.
In my simplist mind I believe that the key to equilibrium lies in the non acceptance of guilty undeserved. The guilty mind always confuses justice with condescendence. The guilty mind affords rights but forgets duties. The guilty is a bad judge and right now it's time to be just and justice will be served when the new jewish elite is willing to be submitted to the same duties to which the elites who created America allowed themselves to be submitted. Elite jews should not become royalty in republican lands.
But I digress. What Ed said is what really matters. Should the "thing" become a dominant strategy we will become slaves of mind and body.
Anonymous wrote: "The guilty is a bad judge and right now it's time to be just and justice will be served when the new jewish elite is willing to be submitted to the same duties to which the elites who created America allowed themselves to be submitted."
But that's the problem, isn't it? The Jewish elite will never submit to their duties toward the gentiles because 1) Jewish culture and religion is filled with enmity for gentiles and always has been (which begot it all kinds of horrible backlashes, including the Holocaust); 2)the backlashes are fixated upon by cynical Jewish leaders, who then cite them as yet more proof that the gentile can never be trusted, and when he is down, he should be kept there by any and all means necessary; 3)the Jewish religion, in its purest form (not the retail "love of truth, the love of wisdom and justice" version advertised to gullible gentiles and Jewish fence sitters feeling pangs of doubt and guilt) teaches contempt for non-Jews and always has; 4)those Jews that were genetically disposed to sympathy or empathy for the gentiles (like, for example, Jesus) have always been more likely to assimilate or have been driven out of the religion altogether leaving, over time, primarily the most inbred, fanatical, and hate filled mad-doggers to carry on and indoctrinate their version of the religion to succeeding generations.
In short, for all the reasons mentioned above, the Jew feels no moral, ethical or spiritual duty toward the gentile and never has. If he did, he probably wouldn't really be a Jew. So asking an indoctrinated Jew to "submit" to the gentiles is like asking him to submit to Christianity: he'd rather die.
What we are seeing in America with this whole "self-hating Jew" phenomenon is corrupt Jewish leaders driving out those brethern who have questions and doubts about the morality, indeed, the humanity, of Jewish leadership. What the new Pharisees are basically saying to their outspoken Jewish critics (most of them assimilated, Americanized Jews who aren't falling for the whole "gentiles are evil and deserve whatever they get" line) is "If you don't like the essence of Judaism and insist on empathizing with the goy, then get the F*** out; you're not really a Jew, anyway."
What I am basically saying to the inbred, mad-dog Jews (I call them Judeofascists) is "if you don't like primarily gentile, classically liberal, assimilationist, Christian America, YOU get the F*** out of the US."
If you're looking for a humane solution to the Judeofascist problem, my suggestion has always been to ship their crazy asses to Israel where they belong. In fact, there's probably more than a few GI's who would happily load Abrams, Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Wurmser, Krauthammer, the Podhoretz's, Horowitz and Libby onto a shipping container in person. They could all gang-bang Judy Miller on their way across the ocean.
If "the Greatest Generation" and the narcissitic Boomers had really done their duty, none of that bunch would have ever had the opportunity to lie America into Iraq. I guess they were counting on the fact that modern Christians and Americans don't have any backbone, nor really any deep understanding of Christianity or America. So far, they have been proven right.