Comments on: Obama Reminds Jews of a Time When Israel Was Wrong

By: americangoy

americangoy — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

"Note that The Post refers to a"recent book about the 'Israel lobby'", as Newsweek also did this week, without giving credit to the authors, Walt and Mearsheimer."

All together now in conspirational whisper, a la Harry Potter movie scene:

"They....who must NOT...be...named".

By: Oarwell

Oarwell — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

More from Obama's important talk, from the Antiwar blog:

Barack Obama reportedly said something very important and long overdue to a group of some 100 Cleveland Jewish leaders on Sunday — that being pro-Likud and being “pro-Israel” are two different things.

“I think there is a strain within the pro-Israel community that says unless you adopt a unwavering pro-Likud approach to Israel that you’re anti-Israel and that can’t be the measure of our friendship with Israel. If we cannot have an honest dialogue about how do we achieve these goals, then we’re not going to make progress.”

Apparently in defense of his consultations with Zbigniew Brzezinski, who has been harshly critical of neo-conservative influence in the Bush administration, Obama said:

“Frankly some of the commentary that I’ve seen which suggests guilt by association or the notion that unless we are never ever going to ask any difficult questions about how we move peace forward or secure Israel that is non military or non belligerent or doesn’t talk about just crushing the opposition that that somehow is being soft or anti-Israel, I think we’re going to have problems moving forward.”

And he contrasted those constraints on the debate here with the breadth and vigor of the discussion of those same issues in Israel itself.

“There was a very honest, thoughtful debate taking place inside Israel. All of you, I’m sure, have experienced this when you travel there. Understandably, because of the pressure that Israel is under, I think the U.S. pro-Israel community is sometimes a little more protective or concerned about opening up that conversation. But all I’m saying though is that actually ultimately should be our goal, to have that same clear-eyed view about how we approach these issues.”

Pretty amazing, like watching glaciers melt in fast-forward.

By: Oarwell

Oarwell — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Scrolling down, I see you've already written about this; sorry for the redundancy.

By: samuel burke

samuel burke — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

phil, israel has always been wrong when it comes to what it did to dispossess the palestinian arabs of their land.

that all nations have a history there can be no denying, but obfuscating this reality in the 20th and 21st century is jewish hutzpah extraordinaire.

By: Sean

Sean — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Calling it a "relationship" with South Africa is hardly sufficient. Israel was brokering nuclear secrets to the apartheid regime in exchange for out-of-the-way spots in which to test its own nukes--because, you see, they didn't want us (the folks paying for the nukes) to know. Testing nukes and sharing secrets could have jeopardized U.S. foreign aid, although Israel should have known the fix was always in. But it is sickening, really, to see how our tax dollars are spent. On nuclear weapons for racist expansionists who then turn around and proliferate those weapons to their racist pals on the Horn of Africa.

Yep, that's our lovely little Israel!

By: Zaid Khalil

Zaid Khalil — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

It should also be added that the ADL was found guilty of spying on American Anti-Apartheid activists on behalf of the Apartheid government in South Africa. One of the people who was awarded in the ADL's conviction was Jeffrey Blankfort who did more than anyone in the US to collect the history of the Israel Lobby and fought the hard fight for over 30 years, practically alone, to make this an issue.

By: Richard Witty

Richard Witty — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

If Obama adopts any attitude of "I'm going to stick it to ..."

he will lose.

His value is in bridging potentially conflicting communities, NOT in compelling their divide.

I know its frustrating that he hasn't "promised" to do x, y, z. And, blindly hoping is known to be just the flip-side of fearing.

I think he's on the right track. I didn't see the debate last night. From what I read, Hillary got irritatingly ugly, and without real traction. (The worst combination for her, and for the democratic party.)

By: Richard Witty

Richard Witty — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

On South Africa,

If the tone of the ANC efforts resulted in the emigration of all of the whites, if the ANC really regarded the whites (Boer and English) as unwelcome, then South Africa would be similar to Zimbabwe today, NOT a success by really any measure.

If you want to use the South Africa model, USE it.

"Get the fuck out" ISN'T the South Africa model.

By: Richard Silverstein

Richard Silverstein — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Thanks, Oarwell for pointing out the pro-Israel doesn't equal pro-Likud passage. That's VERY important. Rosner just attacked Obama in Haaretz on that pt. claiming oddly that he was interfering in internal Israeli politics by opposing the Likud.

I've linked here to my own blog post on this subject.

By: Richard Silverstein

Richard Silverstein — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

I've linked here to my own blog post on this subject.