Comments on: YIVO Betrays Its Purpose, and Denies History of Israel Lobby

By: Ed.

Ed. — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

'In joining this debate in this way they are enlisting the 6,000,000 Jewish martyrs in the AIPAC cause, as if millions of the 6,000,000 weren't socialists, communists, and anti-zionists along with Orthodox Jews, Zionists, assimilationists, etc.'

Co-opting "the Jews" in any given ideological cause by presuming to speak for all of them on any given issue is a boilerplate Jewish-ideologue tactic. Jewish ideologues complain about supposed anti-Semites generalizing about all Jews, but themselves speak of Jews as a monolithic group. This is why it is important to distinguish between groups, for example, by specifying pro Israel Jews as "Jewish Zionists" the same way fanatical pro Israel Christians are identified as "Christian Zionists."

Also, why don't more Jews complain when other Jews refer to "the Jews" in monolithic terms (ie framing Walt and Mearsheimer's scholarship as an attack upon "the Jews"? If such generalizations are acceptable under some circumstances, why not others?

By: Charles Keating

Charles Keating — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Ed, that's a good point regarding speaking about a group in monolithic terms. Hitler did the same thing. Germans couldn't do anything about it; nor can Americans or Israelis. Money talks, and all else walks. There's no choice in the 21st Century except Plutocracy or Fanatic Religion (not that they are always exclusive).

By: Jim Haywood

Jim Haywood — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

"[The YIVO bulletin] includes a full page diatribe against Walt-Mearsheimer ... Unbelievable. YIVO is a scholarly institution whose goal is to preserve the language and culture of Eastern European Jews. In joining this debate in this way they are enlisting the 6,000,000 Jewish martyrs in the AIPAC cause, as if millions of the 6,000,000 weren't socialists, communists, and anti-zionists."

Very well said, Phil. Why should a scholarly organization whose mission is to preserve the Yiddish language and document east European Jewish culture be taking such a pointed position on a contemporary book which has little to do with either objective?

As you so incisively point out, anti-zionism was very mainstream among pre-World War II Jewry, probably constituting the majority consensus.

It's scary and saddening to see the extent to which the zionist meme has infected even organizations such as YIVO, which surely could serve its mandate better by keeping a prudent distance from the Walt/Mearsheimer fray.

Wow ... is Judaism ever headed for a self-devised crisis. It didn't have to be this way. But even moderate, constructive critics were slandered and ignored as antisemites. I have a sense of gathering tragedy ...

By: Charles Keating

Charles Keating — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Of course Hitler didn't need warrentless electronic searches and a fake fourth estate press. The clock stopped in 1938? Not hardly; it had just begun, and with the minute hand pointing to the latest righteous victims, the second hand adding up the real victims.

By: Ed.

Ed. — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

By the way, the illegitimacy of generalizing about "the Jews" should be extrapolated to generalizations about "the American people." Was the terrorism of 9/11 really an attack on "the American people," or was it an attack upon the foreign policies of the new Pharisees running Washington? Examination of the evidence points most certainly to the latter.

By: J. Martillo

J. Martillo — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

The purple-coded test in link to eaazi.blogspot.com
relates to Martin Peretz' role as a director at YIVO.

By: Charles Keating

Charles Keating — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Most Israelis, like most Americans, have no say in the regime that governs them–neither political voting system (for party versus candidate, but within a 2-party system) gives a shit about the everyman vote as both can easily ignore it.

By: Charles Keating

Charles Keating — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Damn! No wonder Jesus freaked out in the Temple.

By: Ed.

Ed. — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Yeah, and their desecration of the Temple pales in comparison to what the corrupt Establishment has done to Washington.

By: Tony Karon

Tony Karon — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Phil -- in my comment about the deeply entrenched tropes, I guess I wasn't being completely clear. I'm not discounting the lobby, far from it; what I'm noting is their success in establishing as conventional wisdom all sorts of nasty right-wing positions which run contra to U.S. (and arguably even Israeli) interests. The point I was trying to make is that a lot of the general AIPAC lines have been internalized in the U.S. political mainstream. And in the process, AIPAC has established itself as synonymous not just with Israel, but with philo-Semitism. What you see at that annual AIPAC conference where Democrats and Republicans line up to kiss ass is a graphic demonstration of the fact that AIPAC no longer even needs to go after the politicians, they come to AIPAC cap in hand.

It's not even a behavior or a principle about which mainstream politicians bother to think any more, it's par for the course. I guess that's what I was trying to get at...