During the event I attended Saturday at the Arab arts center in New York, Eitan Bronstein, the visiting Israeli activist, made a crucial point regarding the American conversation about Israel/Palestine.
He and his tour had been in Chicago when he heard a one-minute radio ad from some local Jewish committee saying that Palestinians were being taught in their schools to hate Jews. The ad echoed the recent front-page story in the Times saying that the Palestinian children are taught to think of Jews as apes and pigs, also the many campaigns by CAMERA and MEMRI and others to make this a big issue.
Bronstein was shocked to hear the ad. "I cannot believe that this is taken seriously," he told me later. "This could not be published in Israel on the radio. Maybe on a right wing website, yes. But this kind of rightwing Zionist incitement, it is not something that's been so popular or accepted. I think this kind of thing feeds more to a parody show or satirical show in Israel, but not serious discussioin."
As Bronstein explained--and Leon Hadar made a similar point to me last week--Israel is becoming a country like other countries, a normal place where people live and try to imagine their futures. They are in a miserable war, but they don't delude themselves about the causes of that war. It is not about ideology, anti-semitism, racism; it is a dispute over land going back 60 years. Israelis understand this. Of course Hamas is teaching hatred. That is epiphenomenal--relating to the primary cause, a war over land and resources.
In America we are not allowed to have this understanding. Yes Democratic politicians encourage us to think this way about Shiites and Sunnis in Iraq--they hate each other because it is a good oldfashioned struggle for power--but god forbid Israel and the Palestinians can be portrayed in this realistic light. No, in Israel it is good versus evil, and we are on good's side.
I told Bronstein that Tony Kushner had once told me that American Jews, most of whom have never been to Israel, have a view of Israel that is a fantasy based on a delusion. Exodus and Entebbe. Bronstein agreed. "Here there is still kind of outspoken-- the very conservative messages of Zionism. Like to say openly, The Arabs are bad guys. That is a very naive position. In Israel that attitude exists but even on the right it is more sophisticated and implicit than the ways you hear it here." It is related, Bronstein went on, to the shameless use of the Holocaust in political messages re the Arabs. Yes one hears this in Israel. But mainstream Israelis don't generally go in for this stuff; in the U.S. it happens all the time.
This is tragic. It reminds me of the statement in Ambassador Kurtzer's book that the U.S. position at Camp David in 2000 was "manipulated" by pro-Israel views, forces. Our media also are manipulated. This is what Jerome Slater described in his important paper in International Security saying that Haaretz is informing its readers about true Palestinian conditions and the New York Times is keeping them ignorant--and thereby Americans are confined to a false state of awareness that is damaging policy-making and public opinion and in the end the American interest. I try not to be self-pitying about the fact that after a lifetime of journalism, sometimes making $25,000 per article, I can't make a dime exploring the issues I care most about these days--for the blogosphere is something of a cure for those feelings. But my case is a data point underlying the true pity, the state of our democracy. On a fundamental issue involving American security and ideals, Americans are getting a fake story. We are imbibing propaganda night and day. This is about to change.
dunno why I bothered to check back : "Of course Hamas is teaching hatred" is typical of your slimy writing style, phil.
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"Our media also are manipulated. The New York Times is keeping [its readers] ignorant — Americans are living in a false state of awareness and it is damaging policy-making and public opinion and in the end the American interest."
Yep. Here's a little snippet from today's WaPo article about the Mark Penn debacle:
"Some Democrats were concerned about his relatively hawkish views on foreign policy — he is staunchly pro-Israel and centrist."
At least they acknowledge he's pro-Israel, though without further elaboration. (Is it OBLIGATORY to select a pro-Israel campaign strategist?) But the conscious linkage between "pro-Israel and centrist" is propagandistic. Was Ronald Reagan, back in the day, described as "pro-Pinochet and centrist"? I reckon not!
Meanwhile, Canadian Jews are rebelling against their establishment Jewish Lobby, just as American Jews are:
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More than 100 Jews from 26 cities across Canada met March 28-30 to form an organization committed to promoting real peace and justice in the Middle East. Convened by the Alliance of Concerned Jewish Canadians (ACJC), the conference brought together Canadian Jews belonging to 18 different groups to offer an alternative to the uncritical support of Israeli policies by the Canadian Jewish Congress, the Canada-Israel Committee and B’nei Brith, as well as those of the Harper government. The new organization will instead advocate for Canadian policies which respect international and humanitarian law.
Award-winning Jewish-Canadian author Naomi Klein presented the keynote address, “Whatever you do, don’t be normal.” She called on Canada’s Jews to challenge Israel’s “normalization” of policies such as torture, targeted assassinations, collective punishment, and permanent war in the name of security. Israel, she explained, depends heavily on both its tourism and its security industries. These are inherently in conflict: for tourists, it needs to project an image of peaceful normalcy, but to justify its demand for massive military aid and uncritical support for its aggressive treatment of Palestinians, it needs to claim to be immanently in peril. So it is trying to convince the world that it can deliver security through a permanent war on terror.
Representatives of progressive Jewish national groups in the US, the UK, and France all described riding a “tidal wave” of Jewish opposition to Israeli mistreatment of Palestinian people.
http://tinyurl.com/6lz3jt
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Looks like the Holocaust generation, with its polarized "Arabs are bad guys" ideology, has painted itself into a corner and petrified there. Time to let someone else have a go.
Eveything should be okay now since Memri target assassinated Farfur don't you think? We have no independent media in America on matters concerning Israel. You know that.
It's Been Almost a Year Since Glenn Greenwald Bitch Slapped Me Over The AIPAC Espionage Matter
http://homo-sapien-underground.blogspot.com/2008/04/its-been-almost-year-since-glenn.html
That was a rather shameless plug for your blog, liberal white boy.
"the media is manipulated".
What a silly statement. Of course there are editorial emphases, in selection and tone. How could it possibly be different?
Did you ask yourself why different content gets presented in Israel than in the US, say re: Bronstein's assertion?
Its known in Israel already, hence NOT NEWS. Its not known in the US, hence NEWS, evocative or not.
Have you ever edited any regular publication Phil, or just written? I'm not a professional journalist, but on two extended occassions, I edited publications on an ongoing basis. One was a progressive daily four page newspaper (I edited twice weekly, the content was our selection of what we considered important, usually a longer view than say the Washington Post) in Washington DC in 1980. The second was a monthly magazine on energy issues in 1997.
Your comments here aren't "journalism" perse, they are advocacy.
To the extent that a publication is engaging you to investigate, rather than advocate, they MUST engage you for material that you don't have a prejudice about.
I know you get published in the Nation, which is an advocacy publication (I'm sure they pay miserably).
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Harvard Grads Prepare to Bomb Iran – I kid you not. From the JPost:
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When Maj.-Gen. Ido Nehushtan takes up command of the Israel Air Force in May, Harvard University will be able to take a moment to be proud. Nehushtan and his two new deputies [Brig.-Gen. Yohanan Locker and Brig.-Gen. Nimrod Shefer] are all graduates of America's oldest and perhaps most prestigious institution of higher learning.
"Harvard is a great school," one official said. "Now we just have to wait and see what these officers will do in their new positions with their advanced degrees."
Nehushtan and his staff will face a number of challenges, most importantly preparing the IAF for a possible attack on Iranian nuclear sites.
http://tinyurl.com/6r94ku
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Well, if they coordinate with Harvard grad Bush in the White House, it will be an all-Harvard team that lights up Iran's skies with Shock 'n Awe.
Of course, with Bush involved, they may end up accidentally hitting Iceland or Indonesia or Idaho instead. "So Much I," as the Red Hot Chili Peppers sing.
"They are in a miserable war, but they don't delude themselves about the causes of that war. It is not about ideology, anti-semitism, racism; it is a dispute over land going back 60 years. Israelis understand this. Of course Hamas is teaching hatred. That is epiphenomenal"
Israelis aren't naive is your point, I guess. A good one.
Why do you think that Israelis don't vote for the leftist parties there except very incidentally. Meretz for example, is barely existent. Labor is centrist and Zionist, not liberal even really.
If you agree that they are not naive?
In many ways, your points emphasize points that neo-conservatives make, in this case the importance of candor, and the irrelevance of political correctness, idealism and naivete.
Here, Bill Pearlman, LWB, and Richard Silverstein battle it out
regarding what children are taught in schools in the middle east.
It provides some good context for Phil's article here, and makes the point Hillary's public take is totally one-sided:
So, Richard, we should look to the neocons for candor? ROFL
In Israel, it's way more sohpisticated says Phil and friends. Sure it is, Phil, Ashkenazi intellectual elites, right? Wake up call to Phil, they voted crazies like Lieberman in government, what about the Shas party? The ACLU and ADL have nothing to say about that IN ISRAEL. for heavens sake what sohpisticated debate? like the stuff about deportations? Jerusalem Post and Haretz report thsi stuff, the politicians and religious leaders who call for actually deporting the Arabs. You got rabis who tell crowds one jewish life is worth 10,000 Arabs. Who taught him/your people THAT? Isn't that teaching hate? Bad, bad take of yours, Phil. Your blind spot rubs salt into the wound sometimes.
Phil is whining that he can't get published on Israel/Palestine issues.
Why would that be?
He and you conclude some nefarious Israel Lobby conspiracy to censor.
I think that is ludicrous.
There is a difference between advocacy and journalism, though there is obviously now a genre of advocacy journalism, and more than the humble acknowledgement of perspective.
Its different work is all. Both honorable.
Like Mark Penn who got canned for not disclosing a potential conflict of interest to an opportunity seeking donor, Phil's ambiguity about his role here (journalist, advocate, or moderator) is obvious to me.
He's got to pick one.
There are character and content traits that are similar about the neo-conservatives and the anti-Zionists. That is that they are largely ideologically driven, even when informed (which many of the anti-Zionists frankly are not sufficiently). Dogmatic, rather than thoughtful.
If Phil is moderating, then his success is creating an environment of respected and respectful discussion.
If Phil is advocating in the new left style, then he would ridicule anyone with a different opinion, even his friends.
If Phil is journalizing, then when he is expressing his own opinion even by inference, he would use the term "I think", or "I observe", or "I conclude".
I personally DON'T like the journalism of selective silhouettes, whether by the left or the right. In effect saying "infer", "guess", rather than "learn".
Witty makes a good point. The Israeli people really do know what is going on. But they willingly vote in rightwing governments over and over again. The left alternative, Labor, elects Peretz as leader and he eagerly supported the invasion of Lebanon 18 months back. Now they have swung to Barak who wants war even more.
This is a political reality that I think Phil tends to ignore. The number of Jews living in the settlements is about 400,000, they are an important voting block. The IDF officer core is very right wing and prosettlement. The Russian emigres are another rightwing force, indeed their political leader openly advocates the 'transfer' solution to consolidate Jewish control over the West Bank. The Sephardim is the political base for Likud. The ultraorthodox is another force for war. The only potential force for compromise, as reflected by some polls that show 50% of the public are willing to withdraw for peace, are politically passive and have none of the fanaticism that the prowar forces show.
Phil's enthusiasm for establishing a progressive Jewish voice in this country is to be commended. But I really do not see how Israel could withdraw from the West Bank. The political forces against this happening are too powerful. It would require tremendous pressure from the US to change them, and that is something that rightwing forces in this country can always derail.
Unfortunately, Israel will continue to stir up war and the US will continue to be in the middle of it until some day, possibly soon but more likely in a few generations, the people will say enough and the US will withdraw its support for Israel.
"That was a rather shameless plug for your blog, liberal white boy.
Posted by: neocognitism | April 07, 2008 at 07:54 AM "
That's Mondo "Shameless" White Boy to you neocog. All is impermanent all is without a self.
I agree with syvanen's general assessment. The USA will have to really get whacked on the head. I'd say only a military draft will
being Americans to their senses. By then it might well be too late.
"It is not about ideology, anti-semitism, racism; it is a dispute over land going back 60 years…In America we are not allowed to have this understanding."
Who or what is preventing us from attaining this understanding? Jewish Zionists in the media. And this is my problem with Jewish ideologues in general: they are authoritarian control freaks, whether it be under the early Soviet guise, under the Jewish nationalist guise in Israel or under the Neocon/Neolib guise in America. On some level, given the history of persecution of Jews, that their ideologues would evolve in this direction is understandable, but then they should be able to see that Palestinians evolving towards terrorism under Jewish Zionist persecution is also understandable, but they don't. Which brings us to another despicable characteristic of Jewish Zionists: hypocrisy. So we are dealing with murderously authoritarian hypocrites unable to empathize with the suffering of others, and we wonder why the Mideast peace process never budges? Arab Muslims may be caught in their own stunted circle of hell, but so are Jewish Zionists. It's time America stopped indulging one over the other. They are both mired in a largely self-constructed bog of the mind. America will go broke trying to save these people from themselves.
I think it might be possible to convince enough Israelis to decisively renounce annexation of the West Bank.
The primary basis that I think will convince is the idea that the current maze structure compelled by regarding the settlement blocs and the relatively isolated settlements are not defensible except by draconian suppression.
Better that Israel be confident in a smaller land area, then spread thin and wasteful over a wide area.
The West Bank cannot politically or militarily be conquered and ethnically cleansed. At the rate that the settlements are expanding currently, it would take 80 years to cover the land mass, though in a war, the settlement fingers are firmly poised to annex with only moderate military effort.
The worst that Hamas or other militants could do would be to stimulate a war in the West Bank comparable to the one in Lebanon.
The maze fingers would then pince, and likely permanently.
The square of Mediterranean to Jordan is more defensible than the maze, or the crescent (67 borders).
I pray that Israel does not actively imagine that they can conquer.
"Imagining" is sadly two-edged.
… "Imagining" is rather two-edged."
You mean: The Arabs never miss an opportunity to make Isreali dreams come true?
NOT TO BE FOUND IN MSM(AKA JEWISH MEDIA). and many, many other episodes of rabbis frolicking not written.
NY yeshiva sued over 'sexual abuse'
Michal Lando, the Jerusalem Post, New York , THE JERUSALEM POST Apr. 2, 2008
A Brooklyn yeshiva and its head administrator are being sued for $10 million over alleged sexual abuse by a rabbi who taught there for several decades.
The lawsuit is the fifth to be filed against Yeshiva Torah Temimah and administrator Lipa Margulies alleging sexual abuse by Rabbi Yudi Kolko.
Kolko was arrested for a second time in September for allegedly molesting a boy at the yeshiva, and then released on bail.
He was previously charged with four counts of sexual abuse, including two felony counts, and with endangering the welfare of a child.
The latest case involves the alleged sexual abuse of a minor, identified as John Doe No. 6, who was enrolled at Torah Temimah between the ages of 11 and 13.
Lawyers say he was sexually abused by Kolko on a number of occasions at several locations, including inside the rabbi's car, and at the yeshiva in his office at the yeshiva and in the basement.
According to the lawsuit, John Doe says that often, when Kolko would press himself up against him in a sexual manner, he would ask, "Does it hurt?"
Attorneys Adam Horowitz and Michael Dowd allege that Margulies knew of allegations that Rabbi Kolko was sexually abusing boys at Torah Temimah years before John Doe No. 6 was a student there.
"Despite the fact that Rabbi Margulies knew of allegations that Rabbi Kolko was sexually abusing children and was unfit to be a Rabbi or teacher at Torah Temimah, he took no action to protect the young male students at his school and continued to give Rabbi Kolko unfettered access to young children," the lawyers said in a press release.
The alleged abuse dates back to the 1980s, and the lawsuit claims Margulies engaged in "tactics of intimidation, threats and coercion and misrepresentations" over years with the "intent of squelching any complaints."
"In this case, our contention is that there were countless instances of notice to Rabbi Margulies about the conduct of Kolko," Dowd said. "His response has been threatening people who made complaints."
Such cases could be compared to recent allegations against the Catholic Church, said Jeffrey Herman, a lawyer involved in previous lawsuits filed against the yeshiva.
"It's similar in the sense of an insular community where these things, unfortunately, allegations that have been around for a long time, never made it to the judicial court system outside the community," Herman said.
What was different in the yeshiva case, according to Herman, was the lack of an "institutional" cover-up.
"This is one yeshiva, which has no connection to other Jewish institutions," he said.
The attorney for Yeshiva Torah Temimah, Avraham Moskowitz, told The Jerusalem Post he had not yet been served with the lawsuit.
In the past, Moskowitz has denied all allegations against the yeshiva. Regarding an earlier lawsuit in 2006, Moskowitz told JTA that the yeshiva "adamantly denies the allegations in the complaints and is sure that when the cases are over, the yeshiva will be vindicated."
MSM coverup more powerful than the institutional coverup.
Bondo, that Daniel Pipes style.
Yes, Jews are humans just as Catholics.
So what?
The MSM never covered up Catholic pedophiles; it highlighted them. Yet it is covering up for Jewish ones. Yet another bit of evidence of the hypocrisy and moral corruption of the Zionists, particularly the diaspora Zionists.
""I cannot believe that this is taken seriously," he told me later. "This could not be published in Israel on the radio. Maybe on a right wing website, yes."
Mr Bronstein, as shocking as it sounds, ALL talk radio in America (yes, EVERY station) has insane bats**t crazy FAR right wing bias – and their hosts are blathering, insane idiots.
This explains the ad.
I urge everybody to (when you get a chance) to listen to non-sports talk radio – you will be educated to the reality of the political talk on US radio.
"So what?"
Posted by: idiotes
your moniker explains your question.
Track every pedophile priest, every sinning evangelical minister, shine the spotlight on those creeps in the MSM. Ignore Hebrew
counterparts. What else is America good for?
Dear Mr. Weiss: I just wanted to thank you for all you are doing to promote real peace in the Middle East. I find your blog to be eminently fair, I have visited Israel and the occupied territories for several months in the 1970's and have interviewed hundreds of Israelis and Palestinians; I personally feel that this in not a conflict between right and wrong, but between two rights. Both the Jewish people and the Palestinians have suffered teribly in the past 100 years, and both have a legitimate claim to the same land. The only solution, as every reasonable person who has visited the area knows, is some form of compromise, two-state solution. And, keep you chin up about all the criticism you get from the so-called "friends" of Israel. I know first-hand, from having been in both arenas, that it is far easier to have a reasonable conversation about the Israeli-Palestinian dispute in a Jewish cafe in Jerusalem than it is in a Jewish cafe in Brooklin. But, working as I do in the Fort Leavenworth area and having several hundred former students in Iraq, that fact does not, repeat not, surprise me: We have a saying among those of us who work with soldiers for a living: "There are no hardliners in foxholes." (Take that, "Tough-Minded" Neo-Cons!!) And, finally, on a personal note, many thanks for standing up for my good friend Dr. John Mearsheimer. I Have know John for nearly thirty years, and I am quite confident that he is not an anti-semite. I say that as a sincere, committed Catholic who has always found anti-semitism to be deeply immoral; so immoral that in 1983-1986 I worked part-time as an undercover investigator for the ADL. (Had some interesting experiences: At one meeting of particularly vicious anti-semitic Neo-Nazis I suddenly realized I was sitting right between Willis Carto of Liberty Lobby and William Pierce of the National Alliance. I said to myself: "If my cover is blown, I am not getting out of this room alive!!" Fortunately, St. Michael protected me.) History will record John Mearsheimer and Steve Walt as much, much better friends of Israel and the Jewish people than the Neo-Cons. Keep well. Sincerely and Respectfully, Ernest Evans
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Talk about double standards and bats**t bias … Haaretz describes a horde of Christian crazies descended upon Jerusalem:
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American evangelist John Hagee on Sunday announced donations of $6 million to a number of Israeli causes and declared that Israel must remain in control of all of Jerusalem. Hagee's group, Christians United for Israel, held a colorful rally at Jerusalem's convention center.
The mostly American audience waved Israeli flags and cheered as Hagee joined keynote speaker Likud Party Chair Benjamin Netanyahu to insist Jerusalem remain united and under Jewish control. "Turning part or all of Jerusalem over to the Palestinians would be tantamount to turning it over to the Taliban," Hagee said.
Among the 16 causes Hagee supported with the contributions he announced were the Magen David Adom emergency service and *a conference center in the West Bank settlement of Ariel.*
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/972209.html
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Send a contribution to the Taliban, and you'll quickly find yourself being arraigned in an orange jumpsuit. Even a gift to a legitimate Muslim charity requires extreme due diligence, because several Americans have already been prosecuted for what they thought were innocuous donations.
Meanwhile, West Bank settlement expansion contravenes UN resolutions, the Geneva Convention and forty years of US policy. But Hagee ostentatiously announces support for a conference center in the settlement of Ariel, and nothing happens. Why is this traitor not arrested for subverting his country's foreign relations? Because the trump cards of Israel and Netanyahu nullify the enforcement U.S. law and policy.
You are right Jim, however I can't get anyone interested. They will have no interest at all unless somebody in their family gets a draft notice. Bottom line.
Witty: "Phil's ambiguity about his role here (journalist, advocate, or moderator) is obvious to me. . . He's got to pick one."
I can't think why. Many writers routinely switch back and forth between opinion and journalism. The fact that Phil wears more than one hat has never been a problem for me. Of course, unlike some folks, I'm not desperately trying to suppress his views.
From my personal experience,I don't really believe that Israelis are any more honest about their situation than Americans are about our current war in Iraq. I also don't believe that the average American does not understand that the conflict in Palestine is about land.
Of course the average Israeli understands that his country has been built on Palsetinian land, but most Israelis that I met talk in circles about how "complex" the issue is, when it really isn't complex at all.
I worked on a "founder's" kibbutz that was established in the Galilee in 1948, and while planting a citrus grove, I kept finding shards of pottery. I thought that the pottery could be ancient, so I notified one of the kibbutzniks, and he mildly stated that the site was once a Palestinian village. I don't think that the average Israeli is mired in guilt over the issue of Palestinian suffering.
I did personally speak to a kid who defected from the IDF after a short time. When I asked him why he went AWOL, he stated that he didn't want want to beat children. He returned rather than face the consequences, but he didn't seem to be the average Israeli.
I also found it very interesting that Wolf Blitzer honestly wrote on the topic of Greater Israel in the Jerusalem post, and I don't think that he would raise the issue for U.S. consumption. I would consider Blitzer to be a traitor for his double-dealing, but I never considered him to be an American in the first place.
Most Americans don't know the ins-and-outs of the Palestinian issue, and why should they? Yes, our government has been bought-and-sold on the issue, but there is no reason that I should have to know a thing about Israel, and I shouldn't have to care about Israel, Israelis, or anyone's Jewishness. The situation is absurd, and I think that far more Americans understand this than Phil realizes.
I wonder why Phil believes that the propaganda is about to end? What does he think will replace it? What will be the consequences of honesty?
What kibbutz would that be Todd, what was the name?
A rare incident. Billy Boy asking a question, communicating, instead of hurling insults.
What a pity it's only to nab Todd.
I actually worked on several kibbutzim. I worked mainly on Sa'ar, just north of Nahariya. Do you need specifics about the place? I can say that the fly traps stank. The food was awful. The volunteers quarters were conveniently placed next to the stables. What else would you like to know?
What am I supposed to be nabbed on?