Comments on: In New Guinea, I Hear a Conspiracy Theory About Jews http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:41:06 +0000 hourly 1 By: Todd http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60632 Todd Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60632 <p>I don't know if anyone can issue a threat on behalf of the nation to do anything to any group of people. However, I do believe that people are getting tired of the Jewish influence in the media and politics. Just this morning, I watched a panel of mostly Jewish pundits try and spin how I will vote, and what I think about the candidates in question. That gets old.</p> <p>I think I've mostly prefaced my comments by stating that I'm not really sure if Jews are as powerful as Phil states. If they are, and they have driven the chaos of the last 40+ years for self-serving purposes, then I think that most people should have a real problem with that. </p> <p>Also, some of the best reading I've done on Jewish influence is from Harry Truman's words when talking about how Zionists used his friend Eddie Jacobson to influence the decision to recognize Israel. Truman also felt the influence of Jewish money on politics. I'm not sure what to make of Alfred Lilienthal, but he was blowing the whistle long before W&M, or any of the people usually cited on this site. </p> I don't know if anyone can issue a threat on behalf of the nation to do anything to any group of people. However, I do believe that people are getting tired of the Jewish influence in the media and politics. Just this morning, I watched a panel of mostly Jewish pundits try and spin how I will vote, and what I think about the candidates in question. That gets old.

I think I've mostly prefaced my comments by stating that I'm not really sure if Jews are as powerful as Phil states. If they are, and they have driven the chaos of the last 40+ years for self-serving purposes, then I think that most people should have a real problem with that.

Also, some of the best reading I've done on Jewish influence is from Harry Truman's words when talking about how Zionists used his friend Eddie Jacobson to influence the decision to recognize Israel. Truman also felt the influence of Jewish money on politics. I'm not sure what to make of Alfred Lilienthal, but he was blowing the whistle long before W&M, or any of the people usually cited on this site.

]]> By: MRW. http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60633 MRW. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60633 <p>Philip,</p> <p>I got to this and without reading further, had to reply.</p> <p>"I do believe that people will accept tribal elites if they don't help wreck the foreign policy."</p> <p>You couldn't be more correct. The uppy and downy of who's in and who's out and who's the reigning elite is accepted. And who the hell cares.</p> <p>But when the reigning elite is diddling with foreign policy with disastrous, possibly catastrophic, results for all our countrymen and innocents in a targeted country with no perceivable benefit to Americans, then derision and hatred sets in. It would be he same if the Italians (Catholic) or the Brits (Protestants) were doing it. The fact that the reigning elite in DC are Jewish neocons whose first love and concern is Israel, and this prompts negative reaction to the policies being put forth by this elite group , then of course they're going to be despised. And no amount of anti-semitism wailing will change that because these ostensible Americans have broken faith with their fellow citizens.</p> <p>[Fellow commenters, dont even bother penning me about the Jewish neocons line, read Ari Shavit's article instead:<br /> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=280279&contrassID=2&subContrassID=14&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y]</p> <p>I have every right to criticize, complain, and deride the personal and individual desire of Elliot Abrams as national policy, and I have every right to denounce it.</p> Philip,

I got to this and without reading further, had to reply.

"I do believe that people will accept tribal elites if they don't help wreck the foreign policy."

You couldn't be more correct. The uppy and downy of who's in and who's out and who's the reigning elite is accepted. And who the hell cares.

But when the reigning elite is diddling with foreign policy with disastrous, possibly catastrophic, results for all our countrymen and innocents in a targeted country with no perceivable benefit to Americans, then derision and hatred sets in. It would be he same if the Italians (Catholic) or the Brits (Protestants) were doing it. The fact that the reigning elite in DC are Jewish neocons whose first love and concern is Israel, and this prompts negative reaction to the policies being put forth by this elite group , then of course they're going to be despised. And no amount of anti-semitism wailing will change that because these ostensible Americans have broken faith with their fellow citizens.

[Fellow commenters, dont even bother penning me about the Jewish neocons line, read Ari Shavit's article instead:
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60634 <p>I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say here, Phil. </p> I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say here, Phil.

]]> By: MRW. http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60635 MRW. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60635 <p>Rowan,</p> <p>Philip is saying why are Jews being left out of the discussion, whether by design or otherwise. And he's saying that discussion is good and shouldn't be a taboo as if criticizing a Jew is wrong, or allowing non-Jews to have an opinion is unacceptable.</p> Rowan,

Philip is saying why are Jews being left out of the discussion, whether by design or otherwise. And he's saying that discussion is good and shouldn't be a taboo as if criticizing a Jew is wrong, or allowing non-Jews to have an opinion is unacceptable.

]]> By: MRW. http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60636 MRW. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60636 <p>I should amend my post at April 27, 2008 at 08:34 PM to read Zionists instead of Jews because Cheney isn't Jewish, and neither is Addington or Bush, for that matter.</p> <p>Then it makes more sense with the Italian and Brit arguments. Can you imagine what an uproar this country would be in if we were being asked to bomb Australia because England perceived it as a threat to their existence, and the President and VP felt it necessary to nuke AU because Australia was doing what Australians do so fabulously which was tell the Brits to STFU or we'll bomb you back into an Anglo-Saxon enclave. And if the Pres and VP, citing Episcopalian love, said that we are morally obligated as Americans to nuke Australia because it threatened England?</p> <p>Please.</p> <p>Some effing sanity here.</p> I should amend my post at April 27, 2008 at 08:34 PM to read Zionists instead of Jews because Cheney isn't Jewish, and neither is Addington or Bush, for that matter.

Then it makes more sense with the Italian and Brit arguments. Can you imagine what an uproar this country would be in if we were being asked to bomb Australia because England perceived it as a threat to their existence, and the President and VP felt it necessary to nuke AU because Australia was doing what Australians do so fabulously which was tell the Brits to STFU or we'll bomb you back into an Anglo-Saxon enclave. And if the Pres and VP, citing Episcopalian love, said that we are morally obligated as Americans to nuke Australia because it threatened England?

Please.

Some effing sanity here.

]]> By: Phil Weiss http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60637 Phil Weiss Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60637 <p>i was trying to say that Jews have turned their back on this discussion, saying it's a dangerous discussion, why just look at the holocaust. indeed, one friend of mine has said, phil is trying to start ww3. so we ignore the horrors of iraq and palestine and the special jewish role in producing us policy here (podhoretz's ww4) out of defensiveness and fear; but meanwhile people arent stupid and a conversation is going on in the shadows</p> i was trying to say that Jews have turned their back on this discussion, saying it's a dangerous discussion, why just look at the holocaust. indeed, one friend of mine has said, phil is trying to start ww3. so we ignore the horrors of iraq and palestine and the special jewish role in producing us policy here (podhoretz's ww4) out of defensiveness and fear; but meanwhile people arent stupid and a conversation is going on in the shadows

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60638 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60638 <p>as long as you go on indiscriminately using the undefined term "jews" you will go on drifting before the winds of your own associative processes. On the other hand, once you define what you mean by "jews" rigorously, you will find it almost impossible to say anything - your grammatical subject will evaporate.</p> <p>Arendt's solution is the most relevant : she seldom discusses "jews as such" but rather talks pragmatically about the fate of the people defined as "jews" by various internal and external hegemonic groups, primarily the self-appointed "jewish leaderships" which she is mainly concerned to criticise. It is pointless to impute views to "jews as such," unless you have internalised the exploitative stance of the self-appointed "jewish leaderships" and wish to replace them, impress them or insinuate yourself into one of them.</p> as long as you go on indiscriminately using the undefined term "jews" you will go on drifting before the winds of your own associative processes. On the other hand, once you define what you mean by "jews" rigorously, you will find it almost impossible to say anything – your grammatical subject will evaporate.

Arendt's solution is the most relevant : she seldom discusses "jews as such" but rather talks pragmatically about the fate of the people defined as "jews" by various internal and external hegemonic groups, primarily the self-appointed "jewish leaderships" which she is mainly concerned to criticise. It is pointless to impute views to "jews as such," unless you have internalised the exploitative stance of the self-appointed "jewish leaderships" and wish to replace them, impress them or insinuate yourself into one of them.

]]> By: otto http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60639 otto Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60639 <p>And the hotel owner said to me, "What is it with your foreign policy and Israel? It's crazy. We hear that the Jews send their kids to the best schools and get them into key positions in the government and media and make sure that the U.S. will never be balanced. Is that true?" I didn't have a lot to say to the guy. There was some truth in what he was saying though yes it was a conspiracy theory.</p> <p>Just how sophisticated do you expect an Australian hotel owner in New Guinea to be in the way he talks about this issue? One of the considerable features of this debate is the effort to rule out comments that are 80% true and certainly true-enough given the way that people talk about politics and the media in general, in favour of comments which are sophisticatedly drawing lots of fine distinctions but whose substance is 100% bullshit. </p> And the hotel owner said to me, "What is it with your foreign policy and Israel? It's crazy. We hear that the Jews send their kids to the best schools and get them into key positions in the government and media and make sure that the U.S. will never be balanced. Is that true?" I didn't have a lot to say to the guy. There was some truth in what he was saying though yes it was a conspiracy theory.

Just how sophisticated do you expect an Australian hotel owner in New Guinea to be in the way he talks about this issue? One of the considerable features of this debate is the effort to rule out comments that are 80% true and certainly true-enough given the way that people talk about politics and the media in general, in favour of comments which are sophisticatedly drawing lots of fine distinctions but whose substance is 100% bullshit.

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60640 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60640 <p>I'll tell you what, Phil, why don't you try the "my people" bullshit again. That always works, because everybody knows subliminally that "ha-am ha-yehudi" is a racial concept, and they are endlessly grateful to you and your like for glossing it with pseudo-lyrical euphemisms, so that they can feel better about their own respective racisms.</p> I'll tell you what, Phil, why don't you try the "my people" bullshit again. That always works, because everybody knows subliminally that "ha-am ha-yehudi" is a racial concept, and they are endlessly grateful to you and your like for glossing it with pseudo-lyrical euphemisms, so that they can feel better about their own respective racisms.

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/in-new-guinea-a.html/comment-page-1#comment-60641 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/27/in-new-guinea-a.html#comment-60641 <p>What would your "people" have to say about this, Phil?<br /> http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2008/04/28/what-you-will-see-in-haaretz/</p> What would your "people" have to say about this, Phil?