Comments on: ‘The Atlantic’ Was Prophetic on Palestine in 1930 http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Sun, 27 May 2012 21:50:14 +0000 hourly 1 By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61194 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61194 <p>A setting that is LONG past.</p> A setting that is LONG past.

]]> By: Jim Haygood http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61195 Jim Haygood Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61195 <p>.</p> <p>From the Hocking article:</p> <p>"For thirteen hundred years Moslem Arabs have lived here, tilling the soil, caring for their herds, raising their fruits and olives, practising their trades and crafts. Between them and this habitat there is a genuine adjustment, an almost perfect equilibrium; technique and custom, dress and architecture, they transmit from antiquity with an unconscious faithfulness; they belong."</p> <p>THEY BELONG. Whereas the Jewish diaspora had made itself at home in many places -- in Europe; in North America; in the major cities of the Islamic world. But the Jewish presence in Palestine, a hundred years ago or more, was tiny.</p> <p>Trying to change all that by political fiat, via immigration and colonization, defied the worldwide trend toward anticolonialism which was at high tide in 1948. Swimming against the tide for sixty years has not worked: Israel is not secure. A unified, democratic Palestine probably is the only answer. Colonization at gunpoint is not working.</p> .

From the Hocking article:

"For thirteen hundred years Moslem Arabs have lived here, tilling the soil, caring for their herds, raising their fruits and olives, practising their trades and crafts. Between them and this habitat there is a genuine adjustment, an almost perfect equilibrium; technique and custom, dress and architecture, they transmit from antiquity with an unconscious faithfulness; they belong."

THEY BELONG. Whereas the Jewish diaspora had made itself at home in many places — in Europe; in North America; in the major cities of the Islamic world. But the Jewish presence in Palestine, a hundred years ago or more, was tiny.

Trying to change all that by political fiat, via immigration and colonization, defied the worldwide trend toward anticolonialism which was at high tide in 1948. Swimming against the tide for sixty years has not worked: Israel is not secure. A unified, democratic Palestine probably is the only answer. Colonization at gunpoint is not working.

]]> By: MM http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61196 MM Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61196 <p>Too typical Witty, no recognition of zionism's primary responsibility for the mess, which is par for the course.</p> <p>Richard wants Phil to take responsibility for every potential outcome of his examining radical zionism, but Richard doesn't want to take responsibility for any result of zionism, even obviously inevitable outcomes of its two-tier view of the human beings in Palestine.</p> <p>Of course to be fair, ideas like Hocking's are just too undigestable to the staunch modern day zionist stomach, what, after swallowing so many Hitler-justifies-everything and anti-Semitism-is-everywhere pills.</p> <p>Irony is that Phil's blog is exactly that laxative that might help Rich clean out those sour-smelling ideological bowels... But Rich won't take the medicine.</p> <p>He just stares at the package, without opening it up, and elaborates a long list of precautions, finally opting to continue trying to digest zionist assumptions wholesale, without any real universalist fiber.</p> <p>Essentially he's been clenching up his anus so long, he reckons he's just going to be able to wait this one out.</p> <p>"You may propose a zionist endgame. I don't see it." -Richard Witty, 2008</p> <p>The endgame was visible back in 1930, and remains unchanged today: the death of Palestine. Does Witty have a problem with that? Well, we don't know, first we have to solve the problem of Israel's SECURITY, right Rich?</p> Too typical Witty, no recognition of zionism's primary responsibility for the mess, which is par for the course.

Richard wants Phil to take responsibility for every potential outcome of his examining radical zionism, but Richard doesn't want to take responsibility for any result of zionism, even obviously inevitable outcomes of its two-tier view of the human beings in Palestine.

Of course to be fair, ideas like Hocking's are just too undigestable to the staunch modern day zionist stomach, what, after swallowing so many Hitler-justifies-everything and anti-Semitism-is-everywhere pills.

Irony is that Phil's blog is exactly that laxative that might help Rich clean out those sour-smelling ideological bowels… But Rich won't take the medicine.

He just stares at the package, without opening it up, and elaborates a long list of precautions, finally opting to continue trying to digest zionist assumptions wholesale, without any real universalist fiber.

Essentially he's been clenching up his anus so long, he reckons he's just going to be able to wait this one out.

"You may propose a zionist endgame. I don't see it." -Richard Witty, 2008

The endgame was visible back in 1930, and remains unchanged today: the death of Palestine. Does Witty have a problem with that? Well, we don't know, first we have to solve the problem of Israel's SECURITY, right Rich?

]]> By: sean http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61197 sean Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61197 <p>Thanks for the shout out!</p> Thanks for the shout out!

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61198 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61198 <p>The article was idealistic for its time. Searching.</p> <p>And reality turned out different.</p> <p>For one the Arab world has offered to accept Israel, which Israel should grab and act on.</p> The article was idealistic for its time. Searching.

And reality turned out different.

For one the Arab world has offered to accept Israel, which Israel should grab and act on.

]]> By: Charles Keating http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61199 Charles Keating Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61199 <p>Fine, which Israel? At what manifestly destined point should Israel stop expanding existing settlements? Where will be its Pacific Ocean coast? </p> Fine, which Israel? At what manifestly destined point should Israel stop expanding existing settlements? Where will be its Pacific Ocean coast?

]]> By: Joshua http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61200 Joshua Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61200 <p>Phil, during the British Mandate years, there were a few prophetic observations from many British officials who served during those turbulent years. Although Hocking's piece should not have been ignored for so long, it seems that anyone who had any notion of objectivity during the battle for nationalism came to the same conclusion (more or less): that neither side were willing to compromise and that it was leading up to a war. One would have to rule over the other by the rifle; that Zionism had to be implemented at the behest of the indigenous Arabs who were seen as "animalistic" or not fit to run a state; and that Zionism is an offense to self-determination, regarded as a right post-WW1.</p> Phil, during the British Mandate years, there were a few prophetic observations from many British officials who served during those turbulent years. Although Hocking's piece should not have been ignored for so long, it seems that anyone who had any notion of objectivity during the battle for nationalism came to the same conclusion (more or less): that neither side were willing to compromise and that it was leading up to a war. One would have to rule over the other by the rifle; that Zionism had to be implemented at the behest of the indigenous Arabs who were seen as "animalistic" or not fit to run a state; and that Zionism is an offense to self-determination, regarded as a right post-WW1.

]]> By: nc http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61201 nc Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61201 <p>"Which Israel?" indeed. That ambiguity is the unacknowledged advantage of no peace: no fixed borders. Israel can acquire its 'liebensraum' only by avoiding a peace agreement. Many Zionists apparently think the Camp David agreement which forced Israel to give up the Sinai was not good for Israel. </p> <p><br /> </p> "Which Israel?" indeed. That ambiguity is the unacknowledged advantage of no peace: no fixed borders. Israel can acquire its 'liebensraum' only by avoiding a peace agreement. Many Zionists apparently think the Camp David agreement which forced Israel to give up the Sinai was not good for Israel.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2008/04/the-atlantic-wa.html/comment-page-1#comment-61202 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/04/21/the-atlantic-wa.html#comment-61202 <p>"Many Zionists apparently think the Camp David agreement which forced Israel to give up the Sinai was not good for Israel."</p> <p>VERY VERY few. The reconciliation with Egypt is lauded, even if didn't get general as quickly as hoped.</p> <p>I think Carter should be commended now for going to Syria and to Hamas to speak.</p> <p>I now agree with the assertion that the Bush administration is one of the main inhibitors of peace negotiation now.</p> <p>I wish that both the US and the left sincerely opposed terror as a means, rather than using terror as a name-call only.</p> "Many Zionists apparently think the Camp David agreement which forced Israel to give up the Sinai was not good for Israel."

VERY VERY few. The reconciliation with Egypt is lauded, even if didn't get general as quickly as hoped.

I think Carter should be commended now for going to Syria and to Hamas to speak.

I now agree with the assertion that the Bush administration is one of the main inhibitors of peace negotiation now.

I wish that both the US and the left sincerely opposed terror as a means, rather than using terror as a name-call only.

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