Joel Kovel is an old lefty–or anyway, he was wearing a green
corduroy jacket at the Brecht Forum last night– and he insists on a central argument of this blog: that the neocons pushed the Iraq war out of a Zionist agenda. The neocons, says Kovel, are
"a nest of vipers in the heart of the Bush Administration." Dozens of them came into the Bush
Administration–"not all of them Jewish, but every last one of them a
violent ultra-Zionist." And then they overreached, by recruiting the U.S. in "satrap" Israel’s "paranoid" and militarized response to the Arab world.
The Iraq war has now created a "serious division
within the U.S. elite… that could have fateful consequences for Israel."
Walt and Mearsheimer have now spoken from the "heights of official
academica," making a very similar argument about the neocons/Iraq that
Kovel makes. (Kovel’s point about W&M’s influence is underlined by speculation I’ve gotten, in
confidential emails with one scholarly observer, that Obama and Hillary
and Bill Clinton have all read portions of The Israel Lobby. Journalists should ask them.)
Kovel said that he is writing a review of Walt and Mearsheimer
(good that someone assigned him, huh!) and that he finds many things
"wrong" in their analysis, not their research and facts. The book
"lays out the facts very clearly… an immense amount of research…"
I find this a very helpful statement coming from a Jewish scholar, because
W&M have been smeared by the Jewish establishment, lately by Ambassador Kurtzer, who (a freshly-minted professor himself) declares that they made it all up. And Bill Kristol, who is for good reason feeling hunted, called Walt and Mearsheimer "schmucks."
The next intellectual shoe to drop here is Stephen J. Sniegoski’s book The Transparent Cabal, forthcoming in May, promising to do what I thought Jacob Heilbrunn was going to do when he threw around the "cabal" word: lay out the mechanics of how the neocons got inside and what they really think about Israel, the peace process, and American force. I’ve got a copy, and early on it offers a precise argument:
The overarching goal of both the neocons and the Likudniks was
to create an improved strategic environment for Israel. To reiterate, this does not
necessarily mean that the neocons were deliberately promoting
the interest of Israel at the expense of the United States. Instead,
they maintained that an identity of interests existed between the two
countries–Israel’s enemies being ipso facto America’s enemies. However, it is apparent that the neoconservatives viewed American foreign policy through the lens of Israeli interest, as Israeli interest was perceived by the Likudniks.The aim
of the neoconservative/Likudnik foreign policy strategy was to weaken
and fragment Israel’s Middle East adversaries and concomitantly
increase Israel’s relative strength, both externally and internally. A key objective was to eliminate the demographic threat posed by the Palestinians to the Jewish state, which the destabilization of Israel’s external enemies would achieve, since the Palestinian resistance depended upon external support…
Lovely, helpful, precise. Spring is busting out all over.
You forgot to mention my publication…Count Aipacula and the Axis of Weasels
"I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country to carry out a foreign policy [in the Middle East] not approved by the Jews …. terrific control the Jews have over the news media and the barrage the Jews have built up on congressmen …. I am very much concerned over the fact that the Jewish influence here is completely dominating the scene and making it almost impossible to get congress to do anything they don't approve of. The Israeli embassy is practically dictating to the congress through influential Jewish people in the country."
– Sen. William Fulbright, Chair of Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 10-7-1973 On CBS' Face the Nation
Phil,
Any comments on your conversion from a-patriotic to patriotic?
How did that happen? When did it happen?
What does it mean, as distinct from the neo-conservatives who claim to have an identical conversion?
Yeah, Phil, answer Witty. How did you become an American patriot, rather than a fake one, in the ultimate interest of what's good (in your opinion) for the world-wide Jews? You traitor.
The point is that people like Norman Podhoretz describe a similar conversion from radical to conservative (neo-conservative, newly conservative and a new style of conservative).
I knew Phil when we were both fairly radical.
I didn't know Phil all that much when Phil was successful in conventional media, and I was still radical (though emphasizing community development rather than dissent).
.
"Joel Kovel … insists on a central argument of this blog: that the neocons pushed the Iraq war out of a Zionist agenda."
Why is this proposition even controversial anymore? The agenda was laid out in the Netanyahu campaign's notorious 1996 document, "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm":
"This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq – an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm
Continuity of personnel was provided by the author Richard Perle, whose study group included Douglas Feith and David Wurmser. All went on to exert significant influence within the Bush administration.
Is this evidence trail of documents and conspirators not sufficient? There's plenty more supporting evidence.
Is the "Clean Break" report considered apocryphal? Hey, this is not the Protocols of the Elders of Zion; it was a real document, written for serious purposes. Deadly serious, as a matter of fact — Saddam Hussein ended up swinging from a rope.
History is never complete, since new declassified documents inevitably turn up, even as the repercussions of mistaken policies roll on. So Stephen Sniegoski is doing a great service by reinforcing the point that the neocons were promoting a zionist agenda. Clap your hands loud enough on a snowy hillside, and it can start an avalanche.
So Phil…you, like MJ Rosenberg, Uri Avnery and many other "Progressive Jews" actually believe the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are true, and you guys are carrying out a desparate effort to convince your fellow "progressives" that you, unlike the rest of us Jews are "okay". German Jews tried this in the 1930's, but they failed. Your moronic repetition of the use of the word "Likudnik" proves you don't have the faintest clue about Israeli politics or Jewish nationalism. Most "Likudniks" I know OPPOSED the US invasion of Iraq, realizing it would set off extremists like yourself against Israel, among other negative reactions. Time to grow up, or at least learn a little history.
"out of a zionist agenda". yah. obvious to anyone with at least a frog's brain.
i watched c-span and other 'news' for some 8 mos prior to the iraq assault(borrowed tv). c-span was all neocon all the time(others, eg, msnbc, cnn, fox, were same): original airing plus repeats. c-span hosts would disconnect dissenting callers for several bogus reasons.
Editorial note: What follows is the text of a speech delivered at the MidCoast Forum on Foreign Relations in Rockport, Maine, on April 21, 2008.
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12717
http://jewsagainstzionism.com/
did you know that bar kochba was another in a line of false messiahs that the jews chose to follow back in the day when rome ruled the earth, i forget which of the famous rabbis of his day actually recognized him as the messiah of yisroel.
these antizionist jews at the website i pasted above and below had a unique experience with the zionist and are telling anyone who wishes to listen…dont be afraid, some version of the truth might set you free.
i like the history of what the zionist jews did to perpetrate anti semitic terrorism on the jewish communities who lived in iraq and yemen and a few other arab countries to cause the jews in those communities to immigrate to israel. if those stories sound too far fetched to be believed then the ones of the jews of europe asking for help from the zionist and being turned down are sure to please any zionist in this crowd.
there are so many stories and so much evidence presented by these antizionist jews that one just doesn know where to start.
http://jewsagainstzionism.com/
Mondo, I visit you here every couple of days or so to see whether you might have some interesting info regarding our folk. Unfortunately you never do. Nonetheless I'll continue visiting in the vain hope that someday you may actually show me some tidbit of genuinely interesting news re Jews that is going unreported elsewhere.
But here's the thing Mondo, every time I stop by I just want to leave you a note in Caps with multiple exclam points about how much I hate you. Honestly though, there's a limit to the sort of literary variety that one could offer on the subject of loathing you – which is what generally stays my pen. Would ya please do me a favor then? wouldja? A favor from one yid to another. Slap youself in the face really really hard every mornng as you look in the mirror and scream, "Fuck you! You're rotten, ugly son of a bitch!" If you promise me you'll do it I'll feel good every day just thinking about it. Knowing how much you love your fellow Jews I'm sure you won't deny me this.
mnuez
P.S. You really are a rotten bit of cadaver. In the unlikely event that this is due to some horrible sadness on your part I would understand it, pity you and (to the degree that my agnosticism allows) pray for you. Whatever the cause for your slavish, boot-licking nazi-master fetish I hope that you have a refuah sheleimah.
mnuez
Bar Kochba was NOT a "false messiah", he was a "failed messiah". I give him credit for trying. If you don't believe me, read the RAMBAM. Your organization is a tiny fringe group whose ideas are rejected by the large majority of Orthodox/religious Jews, including the Haredi/"Ultra-Orthodox" groups.
I really think it is comical when Phil gets all thrilled when he points out that "150 people came including some young Jews" to an anti-Zionist gathering. At the same time, the Birthright program is signing up thousands of young Jews to visit Israel and has a long waiting list. Many (maybe most) come from backgrounds where the kids had a limited association with the organized Jewish community. In addition, the numbers of Jews of making aliyah from prosperous North America is increasing slowly but steadily.
Zionism is the great success story of the post-World War II world. Anti-Zionists EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT!
This is great. Can I pass it on to the goy troops over in the MIddle East, to give them succor?
I'm sure they will feel better knowing they are helping young guys their own age help Israel.
MREs, you can't beat them. Ask any USA congress person.
.
Whoa … just noticed (from the Amazon link) that the Foreword of Stephen Sniegoski's book, "The Transparent Cabal," is written by none other than Paul Findley (former R-Illinois, 1962-1982). That's a ballsy statement in itself. After AIPAC dislodged him from his House seat in 1982, Findley sat down to write "They Dare To Speak Out" (1985), one of the first and best books to shine a spotlight on the Lobby's baleful grip on Congress.
http://tinyurl.com/423qdw
Be sure to read this
"Of Matzoh Balls and Mythology"
There is purpose to asking questions. That is "How can I be a better person, and a better Jew?"
What is the intent?
I am not as optimistic as some that the dam has burst because the lobby remains a very potent force that can reach out and destroy political careers in anyplace in the country. But there is one change I think might be happening. There seem to be fewer left wing Zionist arguing on Israel's behalf and the current defenders seem more shrill, personally insulting and less willing to engage in argument. Is that progress?
?
bar_kochba132: "Most "Likudniks" I know OPPOSED the US invasion of Iraq, realizing it would set off extremists like yourself against Israel, among other negative reactions. Time to grow up, or at least learn a little history."
I'd appreciate sources for that. If most of the "Likudniks" you know OPPOSED the war, there must be traces of this opposition in the Israeli/US press. No? Who were these voices against the war?
Mnuez
I was interested in your angry expression of hatred for Phil; I thought you might actually be a sympathizer doing a parody of the average rabid Zionist, and discovered the following at your website:
"Jews are genetically more capable than any other ethnic group in the world. They're the mirror image of Africans. That being the case, while Africans everywhere tend (in their average) to live in shit, Jews everywhere tend (in their average) to live in glass and marble."
I'm not disputing or endorsing your racist findings, or passing judgment on your conclusions, but I believe them to be reflective of how Jewish Zionists (and Jewish Marxists, for that matter) really think, and a state of affairs they want to institutionalize, despite their posturing otherwise.
You say you were dysfunctionally "raised with a demented and half-paralyzed grandfather who suffered the regular hatred, vitriol and shrieking curses of my grandmother. They had both lost their entire families in the Holocaust," and apparently hold your dysfunctional childhood against the goyim.
I'm going to let you in on a well-guarded secret: there never would have been a Holocaust but for Judeofascism. Jewish Bolsheviks in the Soviet Union murdered many millions of peasants (they too, through dysfunctional Jewish upbringings, believed themselves to be racially superior), which established precedents for state-organized mass murder that contributed and probably led to the Holocaust. Today, inherent Judeofascist bigotry finds expression in Israeli law, which institutionally discriminates against non-Jews, and in the political ideology of Neoconservatism.
I suggest you hold the proper people accountable for your misery, lay the blame where it truly belongs, and work to punish the appropriate wrong-doers. You are currently a prisoner of your own dysfunctional belief system, imposed upon you by inherently evil Jewish charlatans.
Does this mean Africans don’t really live in shit? No. But all of us human beings have God-given Free Will; those on either the Left or Right who try to use state authoritarianism to try to deprive us of that will lose, and will pay a steep price for trying.
What goes around, comes around. Nothing appeared out of thin air–except dollar bills.
And, free and easy home mortgages.
Richard, did you read this part of Tony Karon's website linked above by MRW.? Phil linked to some of this before but I know you don't tend to read Phil's links.
I found the following excerpt poignant, and if I were an ethnic ashkenazi gung-ho zionist, whether young or old, it would give me tremendous pause.
"It’s mischievous stuff, of course, and I don’t know what to make of it — I’m not entirely sure if I can buy his idea that this whole narrative of exile and wandering was created by 19th century German-Jewish nationalists — I’d be curious to know to what extent the same narrative was present among the Sephardim, who were largely immune to Zionism until it became their own nakbah in 1948."
That last bit, about the ramifications of German-Jewish nationalists trying to seize Palestine on the Sephardim populations throughout the Middle East–does that bother you at all? If zionism is a good, was it good to trigger the expulsion of those people and force their emigration to Israel? Do you consider this a "reunification" or something similar to the Nakba experienced by the Palestinians?
(While Karon expresses a little skepticism; I quickly yield to the scholars and experts; noting as well: the thing quacks like a duck.)
Should zionism represent all Jews? Should all Jewish-identifying people have to make apologies for Israel? Should Israel be the only place where Jews can "be Jews" (whatever the hell that means!)? (That is a truly bizarre Abramsian notion I still cannot quite fully understand–my guess is it's merely your typical justify-the-means schlock.)
Richard, tell me something, o you agree by the way with Ben Gurion's sentiment about saving half the Jews in Israel being better than saving all of them via the U.S. and England?
Sure, whatever saves more Jews; Goys don't matter. Look at the USA's implemented military policy. Goys are animals–why else would they not revolt?
Verbatim, as delivered
Remarks of Howard L. Berman (D-CA) at the start of debate on H. Con. Res. 322, recognizing the 60th anniversary of the founding of the modern State of Israel.
Mr. Speaker, in the sixty years since the founding of our ally Israel, the United States has had no greater friend in the Middle East. U.S.-Israeli friendship is based, first and foremost, on shared democratic values and our mutual pursuit of peace and stability in the Middle East, and it is buttressed by our nation’s unshakeable commitment to Israel’s security.
The remarkable story of Israel’s foundation and survival is inspiring. Shortly after the decision by the United Nations to partition the Palestine of the British Mandate into Jewish and Arab states, Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, in Tel Aviv. In response, Israel’s Arab neighbors invaded the new, and tiny, Jewish state. And, to the surprise of the so-called experts and pundits everywhere, the nascent Israel Defense Forces prevailed, defending the people of Israel and soundly defeating the Arab coalition.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy called the emergence of the state of Israel a “miracle of the 20th Century.” However, Golda Meir once remarked that there had been too much self-sacrifice and too many lives lost for Israel’s emergence to be considered a miracle.
But the establishment and evolution of the state of Israel can be considered without doubt one of the dazzling human achievements of our times. Hundreds of thousands of Jews and their descendants have escaped oppression — or worse — because Israel exists. Spurning the authoritarian model that dominates its region and persevering in a sea of enmity, Israel has built a world-class civilization: a vibrant democracy, a thriving economy, and a culturally and academically rich society.
The American people – and particularly the United States Congress – have contributed mightily to Israel’s sustenance and security over the years. Of that we are justifiably proud.
But Israel’s triumphant story is also tinged with tragedy. Each year, just before its Independence Day, Israel honors soldiers who have fallen in its defense. A siren sounds all over the nation, and Israelis everywhere stop to remember.
This minute of silence is a poignant memory for all who have witnessed it. But it is also, unfortunately, symbolic of Israel’s wider regional reality. For Israel has lived under the Damoclean threat since its birth.
For years the Arab world sought to drive Israel into the sea. But eventually, after much death and destruction, the visionary Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and the wise Jordanian King Hussein recognized the value of peace and co-existence with Israel. And, although much of the Arab world’s economic, cultural, and political boycott of Israel remains intact – and terrorism has never ceased — the prospect of a collective Arab military attack on Israel fortunately has faded in recent years.
Nevertheless, Israel today lives under potentially greater threats to its wellbeing and existence than ever before. The daily rocket assaults from Gaza, controlled by fundamentalist Hamas, have wreaked vast physical and psychological damage on the people of Sderot, not to mention the fact that they have killed more than a dozen Israelis. And increasingly sophisticated rockets are being used; they are more deadly accurate by the day, and they have greater range. In Israel’s north, Hezbollah’s replenished missile supply poses an even greater threat.
On the other end of the military spectrum, a theologically-based state – the Islamic Republic of Iran, whose President says Israel should be “wiped off the map” – is developing nuclear weapons and long-range missiles.
Now is not the time to go into detail about these threats. This body has spoken specifically to each of these dangers in the relatively recent past, and will do so again.
But now it is time to reaffirm our nation’s pledge to Israel: that we will stand in solidarity with Israel against all violent assaults on its security and wellbeing.
And, most of all, it is the time to say to our friend and ally, Israel: Congratulations on your incredible social, political, economic, and technological achievements in the face of the most stupefying odds. We in the United States could not be prouder of our special relationship with you.
Go Goy GIs go.
I read most of Phil's links and some of the posters here.
Zionism definitely grew out of the Ashkenasi experience. Jews in Europe were persecuted and craved an alternative. The persecution was very long, and from the same narrative if not always the same source. And, it culminated in the most grievous abuse of a people in scale in history (though probably not in proportion, some have had more than 60% of their population murdered).
And, that a portion of Jewish blood (really from all locales) is mixed with local populations, is not a deterence.
Jews aren't Jews because of blood perse, but because we identify as a people.
Zionism is a nationalism, not a racism.
Maybe nationalism is passe, but then patriotism would be as well.
The thing that is ironic about the criticism of neo-conservatism, is that of reaction.
Rather than identify what elements of what argument is a component of an improved argument from multiple sources, the "intellectual" exercise here is of rejection and reaction only.
Israel deserves support from the US. Israel is in a close relationship with the US, a comprehensive relationship.
The reality though is that Palestine does as well.
To the extent that activism can be formulated in a way that is an affirmation of the health of both, it will likely succeed.
Otherwise, it is likely a collective play of some psychological malady, a dehumanization of the other, a willingness to falsify facts and relevance.
I haven't read the Kovel book "Overcoming Zionism".
I read a few of the other articles on his website.
Zionism, like any nationalism can be universalism in place, and in community.
Or, it can devolve to an objectification, say of the term "chosen".
"In any case its a very complex and many sided problem, in part because the Covenant – the sense of being God's chosen people – can be read in different ways. One possibility is to see it as a charge to seek justice on a universal basis. Here the Jew takes the position of being an outsider and identifies with all outsiders and victims. Here one belongs to all of humanity, all of whom are morally equivalent by the virtue of being a human being before God. But another direction is possible as well, in which the Covenant becomes a special, "chosen" relation to God. Now one is morally better than non-Jewish people-the goyim–and by that fact, puts them down with a certain degree of hostility and even contempt from a place of moral superiority. The second path, of being the chosen favorite of God is quite contradictory to the ideals of universal justice, though common enough throughout history. In this respect the Convenant comes to organize a kind of tribal feeling: Jews are special, God's chosen people, and their suffering entitles them moral as well as intellectual superiority over the others."
There are MANY Zionists that adopt the universal justice approach. For them Zionism is universalism in place, universalism in real life.
And not only the political flavor of universalism, also the acknowledgement of holiness of person, of nature, of family, of community.
The issue of a state is an old issue in all nationalisms. Do we need a state, or isn't it sufficient for us to live together in community (whether exclusive or not).
Einstein for example was a proponent of the community approach, in Israel (not in Brooklyn, or Tunis). He later relented that the question of state was an inevitable necessity, as protection is an important element of community (reluctantly).
Although Einstein has misgivings about the bomb, he acknowledged that the German scientists were a few years following the Americans, and that their possession of the bomb would change the world for the worse as an opaque blanket on the world.
Reluctantly. But needed.
Now is the time for appeal to hearts and minds. Militancy and condemnation evoke more of the same.
Need another secret letter from Bush to Israel to expand the settlements? That should appeal to chosen hearts and minds.
Joel Kovel is a mechanistic marxist, without any knowledge, or interest, in any real manifestations of actually existing societies of any sort whatever.
To LeaNder:
It is difficult for non-Jews and non-Israelis to understand these things because it goes against almost all the nonsense the Phil and his supporters write here, but the official "Establishment" in Israel is essentially post-Zionist, meaning that they have pretty much thrown out Zionist ideology and Jewish nationalism, preferring the "progressive" ideology of "Universalism" and "anti-parochialism". I'll give you a couple of examples. In the ceremony where the Nobel Prizes are given to their recepients, the speeches of the receipients are given in their native language. When Peres, Rabin and Arafat received their "Peace" prize, Arafat gave his speech in Arabic. Peres and Rabin gave theirs in English. This shows me that they are embarrassed to be viewed as Jews and Israelis and much prefer to be considered "cosmopolitans". Peres threw himself a grotesque 80th birthday party a few years ago, and he chose as his theme song, John Lennon's song "Imagine" (a choir of Arab and Israeli children sang it led by Bill Clinton). This song tells about the longings of the singer for a world "without nations and religions". This is Peres' ideal and reflects that of the post-Zionist Establishment of Israel. These people view Israel as more or less a client state of the United States and are quite happy with this state of affairs since they view Jewish nationalism as a negative thing. Thus it is this post-Zionist group that is most in lock-step with American policy, whatever that may be. True Jewish nationalists do not view automatic support for American policy as a given, just as other countries also take their own interests into account before worrying about pleasing Uncle Sam, even if they have a close alliance with Washington. It is important to also note that all 3 of the Israel's daily newspapers more or less reflect the views of this Establishment, whereas the the Jewish nationalist (although a majority of the Jewish population) does not have its views reflected in the media which trumpets the views of those who pay the piper. The Likud party does claim to be a Jewish nationalist party, but when it is power, it generally parrots the line of the Establishment, because they are the ones who really have the money and power to influence the Knesset members, even of the Likud.
I stand by what I said, most "Right-wingers" I new thought the US invasion of Iraq would turn out to be a disaster, although almost everyone in Israel was glad to be rid of Saddam Hussein, due to our being on the receiving end of his Scud Missiles in the 1991 Gulf War.
Phil and his followers are appallinging ignorant about what is really going on in Israel and the makeup of its political spectrum.
Interesting take, Bar Kochba. I don't know what post-Zionist means. Does it mean that Palestians will get their lands and homes back, and receive compensation for injustices and suffering? Does it mean that Israel will reject U.S. support, and call on its dual citizens to come home?
I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but what has really changed?
Todd raises the right questions, but no answers.