During the 90s, I went to Arkansas on assignment for the New York Times Magazine to talk to the Clinton-haters, and decided the haters were on to something. I wrote a lot about the haters' charges about the Clintons, including suggestions that they had overlooked political murders perpetrated or covered up by the Arkansas machine. I credited reports that the machine had intimidated Clinton's women, to keep them from going public. I also wrote a lot about deputy W.H. counsel Vince Foster's death on 7/20/93, and my belief that whether or not he committed suicide, which I didn't feel sure about one way or the other, he was under incredible personal and political pressure to stanch the Clinton women stuff that was about to come out, and that he knew about, allegedly from preparing a divorce case for Hillary in 1988, after Bill decided not to run for president that year because of the bimbo stuff.
In short, I had a very gothic picture of how Clinton's people operated, in extremis, and of the sense of approbation they got for their methods from Bill and Hillary. I suffered some professional and social isolation for that. People said I was crazy; Joe Conason was a colleague, and serving as a kind of flak for the Clintons; he used to thunder at me. I wasn't trusted to write about politics around that time. "You're over-determined," one writer said with condescension. I thought I was just a reporter. And Joe Klein had said as much novelistically, in Primary Colors.
So I was grateful to Bill Clinton when he capped his Administration with an act of corruption, absolving Marc Rich, for all to see.
I was hugely grateful to both Clintons when they turned her campaign into an Ahabish pursuit of power, a race-a-thon, an impeachment-grudgematch, a mad grind for Bill's redemption, and showed that they would do anything. Again: for all to see.
And I am now personally grateful to Hillary for exposing the violence and thuggery that exists at the cold black bottom of her politics, for all to see. Her wish-fulfillment statement about assassination reminds me of the night I got back from my first trip to Little Rock in 1996. I sat on the couch with my wife, and I was trembling as I told her what I had heard from Arkansans, the ordinary white working-class people who had had brushes with the Clintons or their machine, about how degraded the political culture was in Arkansas.
These are selfish thoughts. Today I'm praying for Barack Obama. To be president, to survive, to lift up our nation.
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The Clintons have truly revealed themselves act by act, statement by statement, inch by inch. And now, her whimsical musings about ascending into the nomination or perhaps the presidency on the wake of an assassinated Obama provide a direct peek into her black soul. Is there a calculating thought that has never darkened this woman's cynical mind? I doubt it. It's just that now, stress and age have loosened her tongue, and the dark mutterings taking place in her mind all these years have spilled into her mouth.
day late and a dollar short but i feel your pain.
with clinton's latest death wish for someone, makes me wonder how, why any human would support this lowest of low lifes(trailer trash bill right down there with his beloved).
why should i wonder. her supporters are low lifes too. especially those with her under their thumbs right where they had/have tt bill.
Is it an accident that the worst democratic President in history (Clinton) and the worst GOP President (Bush) were also the most pro-Israel US Presidents ever?
I'm wondering if anyone has any theories about why Hillary's supporters in the press feel she is electable and Obama is not. The idea goes like this- Obama has skeletons in the closet that will break out if he becomes the nominee. Hillary's skeletons have already been vetted, people will be bored by them so she is a better candidate and can beat McCain. The story goes that Republicans would rather have Obama as the candidate as he is easy to beat. That's why the Rezko,etc. scandals have not come out in force, Republicans are holding back so they can wham him if he gets the nomination. If the Repubs go after him now it would give the advantage to Hillary. The insiders claim that they are just doing the Democratic party a favor by supporting Hillary because she is the candidate who can win.
I am suspicious of this rationale, mainly because of the gleefulness in the digging up of dirt on Obama. There is a sort of hatred of Obama I find wierd.
I'm wondering if anyone has any theories about why Hillary's supporters in the press feel she is electable and Obama is not. The idea goes like this- Obama has skeletons in the closet that will break out if he becomes the nominee. Hillary's skeletons have already been vetted, people will be bored by them so she is a better candidate and can beat McCain. The story goes that Republicans would rather have Obama as the candidate as he is easy to beat. That's why the Rezko,etc. scandals have not come out in force, Republicans are holding back so they can wham him if he gets the nomination. If the Repubs go after him now it would give the advantage to Hillary. The insiders claim that they are just doing the Democratic party a favor by supporting Hillary because she is the candidate who can win.
I am suspicious of this rationale, mainly because of the gleefulness in the digging up of dirt on Obama. There is a sort of hatred of Obama I find wierd.
"and I was trembling as I told her what I had heard from Arkansans, the ordinary white working-class people who had had brushes with the Clintons or their machine, about how degraded the political culture was in Arkansas."
I hope someday you will write about these tremblings, or if you have already, let me know.
http://members.aol.com/orwell1950/nyo897.htm
what i have found so far…
http://members.aol.com/orwell1950/nyo897.htm
what i have found so far…
You have researched these people and I have not; neither has Juan Cole. I wonder though what you think of his take on the latest Hilary flap:
http://www.juancole.com/2008/05/clinton-touches-off-national-ptsd.html
He seems to think that she simply misspoke and the flap is overblown; BUT that the country suffers from PTSD over the assassinations of 40 years ago and she touched it off.
This would be the charitable interpretation and I lean toward it. Mind you, I have disliked Hilary for at least 8 years now; I lost respect for her completely around the time she turned 180 on the Palestinian question in order to win the NY Senatorial race.
I link to Juan Cole because I think it's important to get some perspective. I am concerned about the extent of HIlary bashing , and the amount of Obama hatred and unswerving HIlary defending on the other side.
I've heard a couple of stories about the Clintons that leave no doubt in my mind that the worst things said about them are largely true.
In one instance, I ran into an attractive female attorney back in the mid 90's. She is also the daughter of a local Democratic Party (very big)bigshot. Being a wise guy, and trying to start a conversation with someone of some celebrity status, I asked her what she thought of the state trooper stories regarding the Clintons. I figured she would probably just tell me to buzz off. Instead she related how she and "a very attractive" female friend of hers had headed out of state to help on Bill's nomination campaign. Bill, having met her friend, "would not leave her alone." The attorney just shook her head in dismay as she told me the tale.
In a second instance, more of a friend of a friend story, but very crediblly told me by a bank president with a very sound reputation, someone I've known for 30 years: he met another banker at some sort of bank executive educational retreat. The other bank exec, from Oklahoma, told him as to how his wife's very good unmarried friend had some business in Little Rock, and met some sweet talking guy whom she didn't recognize from Adam at the fancy bar. After a couple of drinks they headed off in her car which was soon pulled over by the Arkansas State Patrol. A trooper comes up to the car and and tells her rider, "OK Governor, you've had enough fun for one evening. It's time to go home now." And off Bill went, apparently Hillary was looking for him.
Anyone who doesn't believe the worst of the worst stories regarding the Clintons is deluding themselves.
Yes, let us free ourselves from the degraded political culture of Arkansas in favor of the pure air of Chicago politics.
before i go for the wkend, have to remember:
amurderka was, is settled by the low of the low. sorta like australia. greed came here.
decent pols: paul, wellstone, nader,..? can we get to 10 in 50 yrs? in 250 years?
Dear Chuck- I'm sorry, but your stories could be utterly true and still not prove to me that Hilary and Bill had Vince Foster killed, or that she and Bill "overlook political murders committed by the Arkansas machine."
I really respect Phil. I really don't respect Hilary (or Bill Clinton much, either). But I haven't yet seen anything that convinces me that HIlary is hoping or planning for Obama to be assassinated.
I'm concerned about the level of polarization inside the Democratic party, if this is how the supporters of two candidates, whose positions are very similar, speak of each other's leaders.
Thanks for the Juan Cole commentary, Leila, usually I would lean towards such a reading.
What is striking though is that she moves from her husband's campaign in 1992 via the thin association of "June" + "California back to 1968 and the Robert Kennedy assasination …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vyFqmp4wzI&eurl
My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary in–somewhere in the middle of June. Right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assasinated in June in California. Ah. you know I don't understand it …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfOBNQiis_w&NR=1
Also RE: "and I was trembling as I told her what I had heard from Arkansans, the ordinary white working-class people who had had brushes with the Clintons or their machine, about how degraded the political culture was in Arkansas."
This reminds me of Mister Boy Band, who bilked, milked, used & abused his own relatives. Sure glad he's in jail.
RE: "So I was grateful to Bill Clinton when he capped his Administration with an act of corruption, absolving Marc Rich, for all to see."
And Scooter Libby was Rich's lawyer. The guy who wrote a book about a young girl getting humped by a bear and knows as much as anyone as to how the nation was seduced into a war of choice, with the second innocent target on the horizon–and still there.
Chuck, no one should be interesting in the sex life of anybody.
Leila, I think associative chains tell us something. She looks rather relaxed to me, that when people get unwary. There is no apparent reason for her to jump back from 2008 via 1992 to a 1968 assassination. But the path is made easy by a discourse about the possibility that Obama could be assassinated. Maybe a secret link is the fact that the Kennedy's support Obama remember? …
could not agree more. the sooner we're rid of these Arkansas grifters the better off we'll be.
I don't think she was insinuating that Obama might be assassinated. The link to California in June connects the dots for me. You have to listen and decide for yourself.
But she should drop out; she's lost the race and she's only hurting the Democratic Party at this point.
As far as the Clinton's dark side; yes it's there: right down to their (well, his anyway) involvement in Iran/Contra through a base in Meena Ark. that was reported extensively on Flashpoints.
What's the big deal. Kennedy was pro-Israel and got two in the head from Sirhan Sirhan. It's the Palestinian way. I would think that the Phil Weiss fan base would be contributing to his get out of jail fund because certainly a Palestinian murderer is a hero. Except what, he didn't kill a Jew this time did he. In any case the possibility that somebody might shoot the "Black Jesus" can't be discounted.
Behind his right ear and it wasn't by sirhan. JFK was assassinated by the Mossad, ie, the Jews. That is the jewish way.
Very good post. Thanks
My post was meant to acknowledge Phil's blog entry, not the post above my original post.
I am commenting on Mr. Weiss' article in todays Sunday Times, Guilty Pleasures.
Interesting analogy from political scandal to every man on the street's basic problem.
In my case, a woman, with an apparently unnaturally high sex drive. I thought that women peak at 37. Why am I the only one? I appreciate your acknowledgement that society is harder on infidelity by a woman. I can imagine if I was found out I would be wearing the scarlet letter A, and worse. My best friend and I were just discussing this subject and she – more atypically, isn't at all interested in having sex with her husband and has even given him permission to go and look elsewhere. She thought that the best solution to her situation would be to live in polyamory. She is by far my most liberal friend, and very left.
I've been living in latin countries for the last 12 years and although had many propositions, never entertained the idea of an affair. Born and raised in the USA by conservative Southern Baptists, it wasn't possible to break from my puritanical roots. Now in Europe after 15 years of marriage I finally sucomb to a latin mans charms. Of course I felt terribly guilty at first, but now, I have to say that you may have somthing. We are both married and have no intention of giving up our life partners, nor would we ever want them to know. It's purly just great sex. To be honest I believe it has improved my marriage and sex life with my husband. But it only works if kept completely in secret, descreetly, and no body gets hurt.
The concept of polyamony would never work. There would be too much jealousy. And besides, the sex is better when there is the added element of risk and danger.
You "progressives" provide an endless amount of amusement to us rational people because of your endless hypocrisy and unjustified "hero-worship" (Phil's -"Obama will teach my fellow Jews not to be particularlist since he is groping for 'identity' just as we are"). When Bill was in office, you all loved him because you all thought he and his court Jews (Kurtzer, Miller, Ross, Malley, etc) would twist Netanyahu's arm and kiss Arafat's derrier in order to help the po' Palestinians achieve their "state". After the failure of Camp David, you all turn on them and say "they were too pro-Israel". Same with Monicagate…you , and particularly the "feminists" all defended him claiming "he says all the right things, so what if he really abuses women in private, that is none of our business". So old Phil gets upset now, years later, with Bill and Hillary because Hillary mentions the RFK assasination which was carried out by a saintly Palestinian "Freedom fighter" (are they gunning for "pro-Israel" Obama or anybody else they don't like?)
Keep the good times rolling!
a flack? I'd happily compare my work from that period with your hysterical ramblings then or now. to other readers I'd suggest looking at my coverage of this campaign, which has been very critical of the Clintons, Mark Penn, etc.
RFK assasination which was carried out by a saintly Palestinian "Freedom fighter" (are they gunning for "pro-Israel" Obama or anybody else they don't like?)bar_kochba132
for those difficult of understanding or just like to lie:
Behind his right ear and it wasn't by sirhan. JFK was assassinated by the Mossad, ie, the Jews. That is the jewish way.
Posted by: CIA | May 24, 2008 at 08:54 PM
The Assassination Of Barack Hussein Obama…Can It Be Stopped?
http://homo-sapien-underground.blogspot.com/2008/02/assassination-of-barack-hussein.html
this memorial day the proper remembrance would be for the millions of victims of amurderka and the israeli diaper force(sadists are we)- history's two greatest cowards and liars.
Joe Conason, you really answered Phil back on his blog? Is that you?
Not that there's anything wrong with answering him back on his blog. I'm just surprised. Seems like something somebody else would do in your name – a fan or somebody.
Hi Joe,
I havent kept up lately. I remember you endlessly backing the Clintons and never criticizing them during the impeachment scandal. When you knew the True Clintons or had a much better idea of the dark selfish people who are being revealed to us now.Guess I'll have to wait for your memoir,
Phil
At the time I had the feeling that I was defending the lesser of two evils but am somewhat taken aback by just how much "less" evil they were/are.
This is clearly the bind our system puts us in.
Am I missing something here? Did Hillary Clinton say something that I missed? She just used RFK to point out that others had remained in the race longer than she has. What's wrong with that? Everyone knows that RFK was shot.
Let the campaign go on. There is no way that I will vote for any of the major candidates, but I love watching Hillary dance around the same bogus speech and racial codes that the likes of her have created and supported for the rest of us.
The truly funny part is that Hillary blames her troubles on misogyny, when she should be screaming about black bigotry, since blacks who used to support her overwhelmingly as a group are voting over 90% for Obama (based on his race) in some states.
She's not very bright, is she? My guess is that Bill would have known how to demagogue the situation to his advantage in order to garner support where there would have been none.
After Obama's SF comments, I wonder if he would still win some of his earlier victories?
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