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	<title>Comments on: Oren Shows, It&#8217;s Not that Zionism Is Racist, It&#8217;s that It&#8217;s Selfish</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 01:16:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: 5 dancing shlomos</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59618</link>
		<dc:creator>5 dancing shlomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59618</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i &quot;prefer&quot; that these damnable israelis, from the &quot;evolved and decent&quot; to the knuckle draggers, get raptured, along with their monkey &quot;christians&quot;, back to hell. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i &quot;prefer&quot; that these damnable israelis, from the &quot;evolved and decent&quot; to the knuckle draggers, get raptured, along with their monkey &quot;christians&quot;, back to hell. </p>
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		<title>By: Joachim Martillo</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59619</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim Martillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59619</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/JudoniaComplete/JudoniaCompleteA.htm#_Toc198421678 , I mention the close association of Nasser with crypto-Jewish members of the Egyptian elite.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In Six Days of War, Oren claims that the Israeli government did not understand Nasser&#039;s intentions, but Israel might have had a conduit right into Nasser&#039;s closest confidants and used this information source to manoeuvre Egypt into a confrontation in which Israel would be able to conquer territories for which it had lusted for over a decade.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Abdullah (Mark) Schleifer follows such a line of thought in his book entitled The Fall of Jerusalem. See http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2008/01/anti-war-1960s-versus-2000s.html .&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If anyone is interested, I have put up complete versions of Judonia Rising on my web site. They can be found via the blog entry at http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2008/05/israel-lobby-and-american-society.html .&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A lot of my analysis was inspired by discussions on this blog.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In <a href="http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/JudoniaComplete/JudoniaCompleteA.htm#_Toc198421678">link to members.aol.com</a><br /> , I mention the close association of Nasser with crypto-Jewish members of the Egyptian elite.</p>
<p>In Six Days of War, Oren claims that the Israeli government did not understand Nasser&#39;s intentions, but Israel might have had a conduit right into Nasser&#39;s closest confidants and used this information source to manoeuvre Egypt into a confrontation in which Israel would be able to conquer territories for which it had lusted for over a decade.</p>
<p>Abdullah (Mark) Schleifer follows such a line of thought in his book entitled The Fall of Jerusalem. See <a href="http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2008/01/anti-war-1960s-versus-2000s.html">link to eaazi.blogspot.com</a><br /> .</p>
<p>If anyone is interested, I have put up complete versions of Judonia Rising on my web site. They can be found via the blog entry at <a href="http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2008/05/israel-lobby-and-american-society.html">link to eaazi.blogspot.com</a><br /> .</p>
<p>A lot of my analysis was inspired by discussions on this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: William Burns</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59620</link>
		<dc:creator>William Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59620</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There was far more bloodshed in the India-Pakistan partition, but that&#039;s mostly because there was a far larger population involved.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was far more bloodshed in the India-Pakistan partition, but that&#39;s mostly because there was a far larger population involved.</p>
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		<title>By: David Huggins-Daines</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59621</link>
		<dc:creator>David Huggins-Daines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59621</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The history of Partition between India and Pakistan is an interesting one, and it&#039;s easy (though completely false) to make a comparison with the Nakba because they happened at the same time.  To make a long story short, Partition unleashed an enormous wave of communal bloodshed across the entire subcontinent, but primarily in Punjab.  A rough estimate is that 10 million people were displaced and 1 million were killed outright.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If one still wants to make the comparison, Pakistan is actually a closer kin to Israel, because Pakistan was created as a &quot;national home&quot; for Muslims, whereas India is a state of all its citizens.  Even though Muslims are discriminated against in India, they are not excluded by definition from being &quot;Indians&quot; because of their religion.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think the only just comparison that can be made is that the British were ultimately responsible for both tragedies due to their long history of colonial divide-and-rule policies.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The history of Partition between India and Pakistan is an interesting one, and it&#39;s easy (though completely false) to make a comparison with the Nakba because they happened at the same time.  To make a long story short, Partition unleashed an enormous wave of communal bloodshed across the entire subcontinent, but primarily in Punjab.  A rough estimate is that 10 million people were displaced and 1 million were killed outright.</p>
<p>If one still wants to make the comparison, Pakistan is actually a closer kin to Israel, because Pakistan was created as a &quot;national home&quot; for Muslims, whereas India is a state of all its citizens.  Even though Muslims are discriminated against in India, they are not excluded by definition from being &quot;Indians&quot; because of their religion.</p>
<p>I think the only just comparison that can be made is that the British were ultimately responsible for both tragedies due to their long history of colonial divide-and-rule policies.</p>
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		<title>By: Mansoor</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59622</link>
		<dc:creator>Mansoor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59622</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;This is the Obama Effect. The world is moving past tribal distinctions, the western world is.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Phil&#039;s mantra has a grain of truth. It is, exclusively, the western world that is moving this way. But we ignore the fact that the East is not at our peril.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;This is the Obama Effect. The world is moving past tribal distinctions, the western world is.&quot;</p>
<p>Phil&#39;s mantra has a grain of truth. It is, exclusively, the western world that is moving this way. But we ignore the fact that the East is not at our peril.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles  Keating</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59623</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles  Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59623</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with Mansoor. It is only the West that has been, and is, moving beyond tribalism. Where else? Japan? China? Columbia?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mansoor. It is only the West that has been, and is, moving beyond tribalism. Where else? Japan? China? Columbia?</p>
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		<title>By: stevieb</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59624</link>
		<dc:creator>stevieb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59624</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;In Six Days of War, Oren claims that the Israeli government did not understand Nasser&#039;s intentions,&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Rubbish.  Moshe Dayan in his autobiography claimed the Israeli government knew very well Nasser was not going to attack. But Oren&#039;s regurgitation of Israeli propaganda in his book is so revered amongst the zionist lobby in America, as it propagates the myth of Israeli defending itself from Arab hostility(as it steals more land) Oren was also front and centre in the propaganda drive during the assault on Lebanon two years ago.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;No doubt on Witty&#039;s and Gideon&#039;s top 10 list...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;In Six Days of War, Oren claims that the Israeli government did not understand Nasser&#39;s intentions,&quot;.</p>
<p>Rubbish.  Moshe Dayan in his autobiography claimed the Israeli government knew very well Nasser was not going to attack. But Oren&#39;s regurgitation of Israeli propaganda in his book is so revered amongst the zionist lobby in America, as it propagates the myth of Israeli defending itself from Arab hostility(as it steals more land) Oren was also front and centre in the propaganda drive during the assault on Lebanon two years ago.</p>
<p>No doubt on Witty&#39;s and Gideon&#39;s top 10 list&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59625</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59625</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What Phil studiously ignores is that as America becomes more racially diverse:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1.trust and social capital decline per the Putnam report (Putnam &quot;Bowling Alone&quot; Harvard liberal).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;2. boom in home and private schooling k1-12. There are 200K Jewish kids in Jewish schools. When you include the Jewish kids in other private schools e.g. Phillips Andover tyhen you can see how isolated the kids of th elite are from the unfolding debacle of 3rd world immigration. (If this immigration is so good then why dontthe elites send theor kids to the schools full of the 3rd world immigrants? Answer: they lknow that it&#039;s not good for their kids. perhaps the elite is alittle less racially based. But its sense of exclusion results in ZERO noblesse oblige for the struggling white middle class who are taking the brunt of hurt from the disastrous finance-based policies, immigration and &quot;endless wars for peace&quot; that the neoCons love. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Phil studiously ignores is that as America becomes more racially diverse:</p>
<p>1.trust and social capital decline per the Putnam report (Putnam &quot;Bowling Alone&quot; Harvard liberal).</p>
<p>2. boom in home and private schooling k1-12. There are 200K Jewish kids in Jewish schools. When you include the Jewish kids in other private schools e.g. Phillips Andover tyhen you can see how isolated the kids of th elite are from the unfolding debacle of 3rd world immigration. (If this immigration is so good then why dontthe elites send theor kids to the schools full of the 3rd world immigrants? Answer: they lknow that it&#39;s not good for their kids. perhaps the elite is alittle less racially based. But its sense of exclusion results in ZERO noblesse oblige for the struggling white middle class who are taking the brunt of hurt from the disastrous finance-based policies, immigration and &quot;endless wars for peace&quot; that the neoCons love. </p>
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		<title>By: Charles  Keating</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59626</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles  Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59626</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If Obama is elected President of the USA, it will send a huge signal to the rest of the world. Yes, merely because he is half-black, and his father was born Muslim. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s like having a string of Jews appointed to the US Supreme Court, or a black. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It doesn&#039;t even matter what they really will do on the issues.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well, actually it does, but the role, the iconic model offered, nobody is condemned by accident of birth, is the value to everyone around the globe.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is the strongest force in history over the long haul. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It means the USA will remain the global spiritual force, despite its warts, its best attempts at being like the rest over history&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Rubber-stamping the  Israel regime is a losing proposition no amount of pure force can make up.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;d like to see W &amp; M tackle Saudi Arabia next.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s another losing proposition. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m willing to pay more at the pump, just to ween us from another tribal regime that doesn&#039;t even have the Shoah to cover its ass. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Obama is elected President of the USA, it will send a huge signal to the rest of the world. Yes, merely because he is half-black, and his father was born Muslim. </p>
<p>It&#39;s like having a string of Jews appointed to the US Supreme Court, or a black. </p>
<p>It doesn&#39;t even matter what they really will do on the issues.</p>
<p>Well, actually it does, but the role, the iconic model offered, nobody is condemned by accident of birth, is the value to everyone around the globe.</p>
<p>This is the strongest force in history over the long haul. </p>
<p>It means the USA will remain the global spiritual force, despite its warts, its best attempts at being like the rest over history</p>
<p>Rubber-stamping the  Israel regime is a losing proposition no amount of pure force can make up.</p>
<p>I&#39;d like to see W &amp; M tackle Saudi Arabia next.</p>
<p>That&#39;s another losing proposition. </p>
<p>I&#39;m willing to pay more at the pump, just to ween us from another tribal regime that doesn&#39;t even have the Shoah to cover its ass. </p></p>
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		<title>By: Charles  Keating</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/oren-shows-its.html/comment-page-1#comment-59627</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles  Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/13/oren-shows-its.html#comment-59627</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;But its (the American elite&#039;s)  sense of exclusion results in ZERO noblesse oblige for the struggling white middle class who are taking the brunt of hurt from the disastrous finance-based policies, immigration and &quot;endless wars for peace&quot; that the neoCons love.&quot;--john&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think this is a true observation. As the years roll on, the gentile white middle class (currently everybody working and white under or at the social security tax cap), its numbers steadily dwindling from illegal and legal immigration de facto policies and intermarriage, will at some point rise up in sudden resistance.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Nobody likes paying for the sins of the fathers forever.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;But its (the American elite&#39;s)  sense of exclusion results in ZERO noblesse oblige for the struggling white middle class who are taking the brunt of hurt from the disastrous finance-based policies, immigration and &quot;endless wars for peace&quot; that the neoCons love.&quot;&#8211;john</p>
<p>I think this is a true observation. As the years roll on, the gentile white middle class (currently everybody working and white under or at the social security tax cap), its numbers steadily dwindling from illegal and legal immigration de facto policies and intermarriage, will at some point rise up in sudden resistance.</p>
<p>Nobody likes paying for the sins of the fathers forever.</p>
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