Commentary and I agree for once. Jeffrey Goldberg has embraced Walt and Mearsheimer. After trashing the brave authors last year, says Commentary,
Goldberg concedes most of their substantive case.
Hooray. Earlier today I said Goldberg showed real courage, and spent some political and personal capital. After all, he’s losing his neocon traveling buddies, and buddying up to Obama. Maybe it’s not courage, though– maybe it’s the New Conventional Wisdom? Goldberg’s not the only one trying to put his Iraq War judgment behind him…
Related posts:
- Was Truman Courageous in Recognizing Israel in ‘48?
- Did Jeffrey Goldberg (Bravely) Damage His Friendship With Wieseltier by Embracing Walt & Mearsheimer Position?
- The Atlantic Tees Up the Israel Question, After All
- Where Is Jeffrey Goldberg Now That Feith Needs Him?
- Klein and Goldberg Establish Code for Critiquing Neocons’ Religious Agenda: 1, Be Jewish…
{ 16 comments }
I think you are completely right on this point Philip. I have been watching Marty for a while and his embrace of Obama seemed more to stem from the need to have influence with him if he was to gain power, than to really believe he was good for Israel.
It is better to mildly compromise your positions and still retain influence than it is to denounce someone and then be written off as not relevant.
This is the process that is currently underway in some corners.
Actually, Phil was agreeing with Max Boot.
After watching Boot arguing at the Harvard KSG for the use of mercenaries to solve the Darfur Problem — yeah, right!, just like Boot's fellow Neocons solved Iraq — the thought of agreeing with Boot on anything is profoundly disturbing.
From http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/JudoniaComplete/JudoniaCompleteA.htm#_Toc198569907 :
American Gurkhas, Native Collaborators and American Kafiris
The Neocon Jabotinskians and Neoliberal Friedmanites have run the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and occupation to a large extent on Judonian principles by using proxies and contractors or mercenaries so beloved of Neocon pundit Max Boot. (See Killing Muslims Under Humanitarian Cover[441] and Harvard Supports Incinerating Arab Countries.[442])
If the US and other states can be hollowed out and virtualized by privatizing normal government functions and services like the military, Judonia as the most highly developed virtual state will be first among equals. Because many groups within the organized Jewish community have long supplied social services, the members of Judonia could even profit by turning some of the service-providing groups into for-profit corporations.
Mercenary organizations like Blackwater have strong similarities to native fighters like the Gurkhas, who were favored by the British Empire, which established a special Gurkha regiment just as the Russian Empire established special units for Polish nobles, who also had a strong, unique military tradition.
Because Blackwater management and staff consists of fanatically pro-Israel Christian Zionists, members of Judonia probably invested in the organization, and when Judonian staff within the government put Blackwater on government payroll in Iraq, the opportunity to enrich Judonia was almost certainly an incentive.
Judonian use of Christian Zionists is not confined to native auxiliaries. Not only does the new Christian Zionist politics focus almost exclusively on pro-Israel activities in contrast with the earlier Moral Majority movement, which had political concerns beyond Israel, but John Hagee and his colleagues among the Christian Zionist leadership look very much like a native collaborator elite rewarded by Judonia for its effort in influencing American political parties or the US government (RJC and CUFI Incite Islamophobia[443]).
The followers of the new Christian Zionist leadership act like the Kafiris in The Man Who Would be King[444] by Rudyard Kipling and have religious beliefs with more similarity to the Tanna Island Cargo Cult than anything resembling a recognizable form of Christianity.
[See Linguistics, Islam and the Beatitudes,[445] Connecting Hanukkah, Christmas and `Idu-l-Adha,[446] Followup (II): Origins of Modern Jewry,[447] and Islamic Marcionism in Malaysia.[448]]
A part of the Zionist intelligentsia mostly of Jabotinskian orientation seems to be trying to integrate the new Christian Zionist movement more officially within Judonia because by Jabotinskian standards these Christian Zionists are more reliable than large sections of the Jewish community, but large sections of the American Jewish community have qualms about Hagee and his associates.
[See israelinsider: Views: Should Jews fear Christian Zionists?,[449] Support of Christian Zionists makes some Jews uneasy – Cleveland …,[450] Christian Zionists lobby for US attack on Iran,[451] Standing with Israel,[452] In Praise of Christian Zionists,[453] URJ – Christian Zionism? Is it good for North American Jews and …,[454] Bibi: Christian Zionists our top friends | Jerusalem Post,[455] and Christians, Jews in Holy Land alliance – CNN.com.[456]]
REMEMBER it was the paleo cons like Russel Kirk and Pat Buchanan who said the unsaybale back in 1991…DC is Israeli occupied territory etc
PJB and Kirk were years before Mearsheimer.
I accidentally put the following comment under the wrong blogentry.
BTW, Goldberg references Ari Ben Canaan.
The blogentry http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2007/10/zionist-film-exodus-terrorism-is-good.html has an embedded Exodus film clip that features Ari Ben Canaan.
In my example screenplays for Palestinian-sympathetic Hollywood-style cinema, I have a minor but important character also named Ari Ben Canaan.
See http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/NewTwoWeddings.pdf and http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/twoweeks.pdf .
I also believe that the Christian Zionists are not the power behind U.S. Middle East policy. I just don't see Christian Zionists as a powerful group on their own. On what issues do they prevail? They lose on abortion, prayer in school, separation of church and state, etc. and they are just holding their own on gay marriage.
Joachim's view is interesting, but I'm not sure what the exct role of the Christian Zionists is.
remember when billy graham got on his knees and begged jewry to forgive his sin?
jewry was powerful when these schofield hucksters were in haybarns preaching. haybarns would still be there congregating areas not the airwaves if not for jewry's blessing.
robertson would be selling amway products. hagee would be cleaning pigstys. well, maybe cleaning the hagee sty if he could afford one.
i see the 'christian' zionits as added weight(useful fodder and money) to the israelis. also, blame can be shifted to them. just as the iraq war/ME policy is shoved onto the shoulders of oil or doofus and the lizard and away from jewry.
Shlomo, Christians have often been used as the scapegoat for ME policy, but I still don't know what their exact role is. I think the role may be that of cheerleader at this point.
Also, Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been powerful, so I don't credit Jews with giving Christians a voice- Billy Graham, John Wesley or others. Your view of Christians is Obama worthy.
Either way, I think you are right about the blame shifting.
"don't know what their exact role is."
"Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been" – todd
not sure how to answer. probably dont have a good answer.
a weak attempt:
all i can say about 'exact role': political weight and money. shoulders for blame.
the rapture christians are a relatively recent creation. the early part of last century with israel-centered schofield bible(some say support from untermeyer) and moody bible college(?). especially strong with tv last 30-40 years. it is here i find the jewish connection to the "christians". if these schofield/moody preachers werent brainwashed into replacing christ with israel, jewry would not permit them the position they have. they would be tarnished as antisemites and idiots and banished back to the sticks.
may not be to coherent. i have little time with this computer.
"don't know what their exact role is."
"Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been" – todd
not sure how to answer. probably dont have a good answer.
a weak attempt:
all i can say about 'exact role': political weight and money. shoulders for blame.
the rapture christians are a relatively recent creation. the early part of last century with israel-centered schofield bible(some say support from untermeyer) and moody bible college(?). especially strong with tv last 30-40 years. it is here i find the jewish connection to the "christians". if these schofield/moody preachers werent brainwashed into replacing christ with israel, jewry would not permit them the position they have. they would be tarnished as antisemites and idiots and banished back to the sticks.
may not be to coherent. i have little time with this computer.
It seems there are the Israel-firsters who think of themselves as liberals who can't be McCain people. It would be too embarrassing. That's where Hillary comes in. Plus the fact the Clinton's government was heavily Jewish , so jobs, influence for Jews is up for grabs. That is basicly all I see that Hillary has going for her.
Sooooo, if Hill doesn't make it, and she isn't, then the Israel people have to go somewhere and then my god, Obama might actually be PRESIDENT. So the IPs can't be all in the other boat when Obama gets in. There have to be a loyal contingent of IPS to be next to Obama whispering to him, influencing , leading him? Plus, if the press is owned by Jews, Hollywood, the billionaires, and most intellectuals are Jewish, Obama NEEDS HIS OWN JEWS. Why not get in their first?
Is this too terrible to say? I apologize if it is. Thinking out loud.
It seems there are the Israel-firsters who think of themselves as liberals who can't be McCain people. It would be too embarrassing. That's where Hillary comes in. Plus the fact the Clinton's government was heavily Jewish , so jobs, influence for Jews is up for grabs. That is basicly all I see that Hillary has going for her.
Sooooo, if Hill doesn't make it, and she isn't, then the Israel people have to go somewhere and then my god, Obama might actually be PRESIDENT. So the IPs can't be all in the other boat when Obama gets in. There have to be a loyal contingent of IPS to be next to Obama whispering to him, influencing , leading him? Plus, if the press is owned by Jews, Hollywood, the billionaires, and most intellectuals are Jewish, Obama NEEDS HIS OWN JEWS. Why not get in their first?
Is this too terrible to say? I apologize if it is. Thinking out loud.
some event will be the tipping point which releases this issue onto the american publics consciousness…the press under their rulers cannot be fully counted on to report the unvarnished truth to the citizens of this once great nation.
phil giraldi has this to say over at
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=12863
As is frequently the case, one must suspect that U.S. policy is really all about Israel, the 600-pound gorilla in the room. Alan Greenspan's attempt to change the subject to oil notwithstanding, the Iraq war would never have happened without the Lobby's guiding hand. And invading Iran will be more of the same, with the same cheering section urging us on to war. My telling the story about an impending attack on Iran, which could conceivably lead to a surge in public opinion opposing such a prospect, possibly derailing it, is not what the Israel Lobby wants. Alarm bells undoubtedly went off in various news rooms. The media has obediently lined up on the subject, and nothing more will be said, just as the story about newly revealed Israeli spy Ben-Ami Kadish has already disappeared from sight.
How long will the American people continue to put up with this nonsense? That's hard to say, as they have been hoodwinked by the media and putting up with it since 1948. Continuing to tell big lies that exalt the Israelis and delegitimize their enemies as reincarnations of Hitler seems to be working, and it has clearly created a popular myth about a noble and beleaguered Jewish state that is extremely hard to shift. Unflinching and unlimited American support for a militaristic regime engaged in a cruel occupation combined with a program of ethnic cleansing has had a huge economic cost for the U.S. It has also fueled terrorism, produced tens of thousands of dead and maimed Americans, and brought about a catastrophic decline in how America is viewed around the world. Worse still, it might lead to yet another major war in the Middle East. I suspect that when my grandchildren ask me why the United States so foolishly invaded Iraq and attacked Iran, the one word that will immediately come to mind will be "Israel."
Joachim's view is interesting, but I'm not sure what the exct role of the Christian Zionists is.
It's simple the Christian Zionists are evangelical pod people whose brains have been occupied by alien Zionists. But as they walk around you would think they are actually Americans.
ray mcgovern retired cia/analyst
At CIA I used to analyze the Soviet press, so you will understand when I refer to the Washington Post and the New York Times as the White House's Pravda and Izvestiya.
Sadly, it is as easy as during the days of the controlled Soviet press to follow the U.S. government's evolving line with a daily reading. In a word, our newspapers are revving up for war on Iran, and have been for some time.
http://www.antiwar.com/mcgovern/?articleid=12865
"the rapture christians are a relatively recent creation. the early part of last century with israel-centered schofield bible(some say support from untermeyer) and moody bible college(?). especially strong with tv last 30-40 years. it is here i find the jewish connection to the "christians". if these schofield/moody preachers werent brainwashed into replacing christ with israel, jewry would not permit them the position they have. they would be tarnished as antisemites and idiots and banished back to the sticks."
I agree that Christian Zionism is wrong-headed and is very harmful to Christian Zionists. But Christian Zionists are not the only group with bad ideas that are also self-defeating. That being said, I still don't know the exact role of the Christian Zionists since they seem to have an agenda of their own that does not rely on anyone but Christian Zionists.
Also, I seriously doubt that whatever power that Jews have could shut down Christians of any stripe. I'm not even religious, but I understand that there is much more to mass media than the MSM.
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