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	<title>Comments on: Was Goldberg Courageous, or Just Goin&#8217; With the Progressive Tide?</title>
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	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:18:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59275</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59275</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think you are completely right on this point Philip.  I have been watching Marty for a while and his embrace of Obama seemed more to stem from the need to have influence with him if he was to gain power, than to really believe he was good for Israel.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is better to mildly compromise your positions and still retain influence than it is to denounce someone and then be written off as not relevant.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is the process that is currently underway in some corners.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are completely right on this point Philip.  I have been watching Marty for a while and his embrace of Obama seemed more to stem from the need to have influence with him if he was to gain power, than to really believe he was good for Israel.</p>
<p>It is better to mildly compromise your positions and still retain influence than it is to denounce someone and then be written off as not relevant.</p>
<p>This is the process that is currently underway in some corners.</p>
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		<title>By: Joachim Martillo</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59276</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim Martillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59276</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually, Phil was agreeing with Max Boot.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;After watching Boot arguing at the Harvard KSG for the use of mercenaries to solve the Darfur Problem -- yeah, right!, just like Boot&#039;s fellow Neocons solved Iraq -- the thought of agreeing with Boot on anything is profoundly disturbing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;From http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/JudoniaComplete/JudoniaCompleteA.htm#_Toc198569907 :&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;American Gurkhas, Native Collaborators and American Kafiris&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Neocon Jabotinskians and Neoliberal Friedmanites have run the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and occupation to a large extent on Judonian principles by using proxies and contractors or mercenaries so beloved of Neocon pundit Max Boot. (See Killing Muslims Under Humanitarian Cover[441] and Harvard Supports Incinerating Arab Countries.[442])&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If the US and other states can be hollowed out and virtualized by privatizing normal government functions and services like the military, Judonia as the most highly developed virtual state will be first among equals.  Because many groups within the organized Jewish community have long supplied social services, the members of Judonia could even profit by turning some of the service-providing groups into for-profit corporations.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mercenary organizations like Blackwater have strong similarities to native fighters like the Gurkhas, who were favored by the British Empire, which established a special Gurkha regiment just as the Russian Empire established special units for Polish nobles, who also had a strong, unique military tradition. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Because Blackwater management and staff consists of fanatically pro-Israel Christian Zionists, members of Judonia probably invested in the organization, and when Judonian staff within the government put Blackwater on government payroll in Iraq, the opportunity to enrich Judonia was almost certainly an incentive.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Judonian use of Christian Zionists is not confined to native auxiliaries. Not only does the new Christian Zionist politics focus almost exclusively on pro-Israel activities in contrast with the earlier Moral Majority movement, which had political concerns beyond Israel, but John Hagee and his colleagues among the Christian Zionist leadership look very much like a native collaborator elite rewarded by Judonia for its effort in influencing American political parties or the US government (RJC and CUFI Incite Islamophobia[443]). &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The followers of the new Christian Zionist leadership act like the Kafiris in The Man Who Would be King[444] by Rudyard Kipling and have religious beliefs with more similarity to the Tanna Island Cargo Cult than anything resembling a recognizable form of Christianity. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[See Linguistics, Islam and the Beatitudes,[445] Connecting Hanukkah, Christmas and `Idu-l-Adha,[446] Followup (II): Origins of Modern Jewry,[447] and Islamic Marcionism in Malaysia.[448]]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A part of the Zionist intelligentsia mostly of Jabotinskian orientation seems to be trying to integrate the new Christian Zionist movement more officially within Judonia because by Jabotinskian standards these Christian Zionists are more reliable than large sections of the Jewish community, but large sections of the American Jewish community have qualms about Hagee and his associates.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[See israelinsider: Views: Should Jews fear Christian Zionists?,[449] Support of Christian Zionists makes some Jews uneasy - Cleveland ...,[450] Christian Zionists lobby for US attack on Iran,[451] Standing with Israel,[452] In Praise of Christian Zionists,[453] URJ - Christian Zionism? Is it good for North American Jews and ...,[454] Bibi: Christian Zionists our top friends &#124; Jerusalem Post,[455] and Christians, Jews in Holy Land alliance - CNN.com.[456]]&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Phil was agreeing with Max Boot.</p>
<p>After watching Boot arguing at the Harvard KSG for the use of mercenaries to solve the Darfur Problem &#8212; yeah, right!, just like Boot&#39;s fellow Neocons solved Iraq &#8212; the thought of agreeing with Boot on anything is profoundly disturbing.</p>
<p>From <a href="http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/JudoniaComplete/JudoniaCompleteA.htm#_Toc198569907">link to members.aol.com</a><br /> :</p>
<p>American Gurkhas, Native Collaborators and American Kafiris</p>
<p>The Neocon Jabotinskians and Neoliberal Friedmanites have run the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and occupation to a large extent on Judonian principles by using proxies and contractors or mercenaries so beloved of Neocon pundit Max Boot. (See Killing Muslims Under Humanitarian Cover[441] and Harvard Supports Incinerating Arab Countries.[442])</p>
<p>If the US and other states can be hollowed out and virtualized by privatizing normal government functions and services like the military, Judonia as the most highly developed virtual state will be first among equals.  Because many groups within the organized Jewish community have long supplied social services, the members of Judonia could even profit by turning some of the service-providing groups into for-profit corporations.</p>
<p>Mercenary organizations like Blackwater have strong similarities to native fighters like the Gurkhas, who were favored by the British Empire, which established a special Gurkha regiment just as the Russian Empire established special units for Polish nobles, who also had a strong, unique military tradition. </p>
<p>Because Blackwater management and staff consists of fanatically pro-Israel Christian Zionists, members of Judonia probably invested in the organization, and when Judonian staff within the government put Blackwater on government payroll in Iraq, the opportunity to enrich Judonia was almost certainly an incentive.</p>
<p>Judonian use of Christian Zionists is not confined to native auxiliaries. Not only does the new Christian Zionist politics focus almost exclusively on pro-Israel activities in contrast with the earlier Moral Majority movement, which had political concerns beyond Israel, but John Hagee and his colleagues among the Christian Zionist leadership look very much like a native collaborator elite rewarded by Judonia for its effort in influencing American political parties or the US government (RJC and CUFI Incite Islamophobia[443]). </p>
<p>The followers of the new Christian Zionist leadership act like the Kafiris in The Man Who Would be King[444] by Rudyard Kipling and have religious beliefs with more similarity to the Tanna Island Cargo Cult than anything resembling a recognizable form of Christianity. </p>
<p>[See Linguistics, Islam and the Beatitudes,[445] Connecting Hanukkah, Christmas and `Idu-l-Adha,[446] Followup (II): Origins of Modern Jewry,[447] and Islamic Marcionism in Malaysia.[448]]</p>
<p>A part of the Zionist intelligentsia mostly of Jabotinskian orientation seems to be trying to integrate the new Christian Zionist movement more officially within Judonia because by Jabotinskian standards these Christian Zionists are more reliable than large sections of the Jewish community, but large sections of the American Jewish community have qualms about Hagee and his associates.</p>
<p>[See israelinsider: Views: Should Jews fear Christian Zionists?,[449] Support of Christian Zionists makes some Jews uneasy &#8211; Cleveland &#8230;,[450] Christian Zionists lobby for US attack on Iran,[451] Standing with Israel,[452] In Praise of Christian Zionists,[453] URJ &#8211; Christian Zionism? Is it good for North American Jews and &#8230;,[454] Bibi: Christian Zionists our top friends | Jerusalem Post,[455] and Christians, Jews in Holy Land alliance &#8211; CNN.com.[456]]</p>
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		<title>By: ANON 22</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59277</link>
		<dc:creator>ANON 22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59277</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;REMEMBER it was the paleo cons like Russel Kirk and Pat Buchanan who said the unsaybale back in 1991...DC is Israeli occupied territory etc&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;PJB and Kirk were years before Mearsheimer.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>REMEMBER it was the paleo cons like Russel Kirk and Pat Buchanan who said the unsaybale back in 1991&#8230;DC is Israeli occupied territory etc</p>
<p>PJB and Kirk were years before Mearsheimer.</p>
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		<title>By: Joachim Martillo</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59278</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim Martillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59278</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I accidentally put the following comment under the wrong blogentry.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;BTW, Goldberg references Ari Ben Canaan.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The blogentry http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2007/10/zionist-film-exodus-terrorism-is-good.html has an embedded Exodus film clip that features Ari Ben Canaan.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In my example screenplays for Palestinian-sympathetic Hollywood-style cinema, I have a minor but important character also named Ari Ben Canaan.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;See http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/NewTwoWeddings.pdf and http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/twoweeks.pdf .&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I accidentally put the following comment under the wrong blogentry.</p>
<p>BTW, Goldberg references Ari Ben Canaan.</p>
<p>The blogentry <a href="http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2007/10/zionist-film-exodus-terrorism-is-good.html">link to eaazi.blogspot.com</a><br /> has an embedded Exodus film clip that features Ari Ben Canaan.</p>
<p>In my example screenplays for Palestinian-sympathetic Hollywood-style cinema, I have a minor but important character also named Ari Ben Canaan.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/NewTwoWeddings.pdf">link to members.aol.com</a><br /> and <a href="http://members.aol.com/ThorsProvoni/twoweeks.pdf">link to members.aol.com</a><br /> .</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59279</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59279</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I also believe that the Christian Zionists are not the power behind U.S. Middle East policy. I just don&#039;t see Christian Zionists as a powerful group on their own. On what issues do they prevail? They lose on abortion, prayer in school, separation of church and state, etc. and they are just holding their own on gay marriage.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Joachim&#039;s view is interesting, but I&#039;m not sure what the exct role of the Christian Zionists is.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also believe that the Christian Zionists are not the power behind U.S. Middle East policy. I just don&#39;t see Christian Zionists as a powerful group on their own. On what issues do they prevail? They lose on abortion, prayer in school, separation of church and state, etc. and they are just holding their own on gay marriage.</p>
<p>Joachim&#39;s view is interesting, but I&#39;m not sure what the exct role of the Christian Zionists is.</p>
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		<title>By: 5 dancing shlomos</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59280</link>
		<dc:creator>5 dancing shlomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59280</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;remember when billy graham got on his knees and begged jewry to forgive his sin? &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;jewry was powerful when these schofield hucksters were in haybarns preaching. haybarns would still be there congregating areas not the airwaves if not for jewry&#039;s blessing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;robertson would be selling amway products. hagee would be cleaning pigstys. well, maybe cleaning the hagee sty if he could afford one.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>remember when billy graham got on his knees and begged jewry to forgive his sin? </p>
<p>jewry was powerful when these schofield hucksters were in haybarns preaching. haybarns would still be there congregating areas not the airwaves if not for jewry&#39;s blessing.</p>
<p>robertson would be selling amway products. hagee would be cleaning pigstys. well, maybe cleaning the hagee sty if he could afford one.</p>
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		<title>By: 5 dancing shlomos</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59281</link>
		<dc:creator>5 dancing shlomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59281</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i see the &#039;christian&#039; zionits as added weight(useful fodder and money) to the israelis. also, blame can be shifted to them. just as the iraq war/ME policy is shoved onto the shoulders of oil or doofus and the lizard and away from jewry.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i see the &#39;christian&#39; zionits as added weight(useful fodder and money) to the israelis. also, blame can be shifted to them. just as the iraq war/ME policy is shoved onto the shoulders of oil or doofus and the lizard and away from jewry.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59282</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59282</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Shlomo, Christians have often been used as the scapegoat for ME policy, but I still don&#039;t know what their exact role is. I think the role may be that of cheerleader at this point.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also, Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been powerful, so I don&#039;t credit Jews with giving Christians a voice- Billy Graham, John Wesley or others. Your view of Christians is Obama worthy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Either way, I think you are right about the blame shifting. &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shlomo, Christians have often been used as the scapegoat for ME policy, but I still don&#39;t know what their exact role is. I think the role may be that of cheerleader at this point.</p>
<p>Also, Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been powerful, so I don&#39;t credit Jews with giving Christians a voice- Billy Graham, John Wesley or others. Your view of Christians is Obama worthy.</p>
<p>Either way, I think you are right about the blame shifting. </p>
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		<title>By: 5 dancing shlomos</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59283</link>
		<dc:creator>5 dancing shlomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59283</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;don&#039;t know what their exact role is.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&quot;Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been&quot; - todd&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;not sure how to answer. probably dont have a good answer.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;a weak attempt:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;all i can say about &#039;exact role&#039;: political weight and money. shoulders for blame.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;the rapture christians are a relatively recent creation. the early part of last century with  israel-centered schofield bible(some say support from untermeyer) and moody bible college(?). especially strong with tv last 30-40 years. it is here i find the jewish connection to the &quot;christians&quot;. if these schofield/moody preachers werent brainwashed into replacing christ with israel, jewry would not permit them the position they have. they would be tarnished as antisemites and idiots and banished back to the sticks.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;may not be to coherent. i have little time with this computer.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;don&#39;t know what their exact role is.&quot; <br />
&quot;Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been&quot; &#8211; todd</p>
<p>not sure how to answer. probably dont have a good answer.</p>
<p>a weak attempt:</p>
<p>all i can say about &#39;exact role&#39;: political weight and money. shoulders for blame.</p>
<p>the rapture christians are a relatively recent creation. the early part of last century with  israel-centered schofield bible(some say support from untermeyer) and moody bible college(?). especially strong with tv last 30-40 years. it is here i find the jewish connection to the &quot;christians&quot;. if these schofield/moody preachers werent brainwashed into replacing christ with israel, jewry would not permit them the position they have. they would be tarnished as antisemites and idiots and banished back to the sticks.</p>
<p>may not be to coherent. i have little time with this computer.</p>
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		<title>By: 5 dancing shlomos</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/05/was-goldberg-co.html/comment-page-1#comment-59284</link>
		<dc:creator>5 dancing shlomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/05/19/was-goldberg-co.html#comment-59284</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;don&#039;t know what their exact role is.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&quot;Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been&quot; - todd&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;not sure how to answer. probably dont have a good answer.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;a weak attempt:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;all i can say about &#039;exact role&#039;: political weight and money. shoulders for blame.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;the rapture christians are a relatively recent creation. the early part of last century with  israel-centered schofield bible(some say support from untermeyer) and moody bible college(?). especially strong with tv last 30-40 years. it is here i find the jewish connection to the &quot;christians&quot;. if these schofield/moody preachers werent brainwashed into replacing christ with israel, jewry would not permit them the position they have. they would be tarnished as antisemites and idiots and banished back to the sticks.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;may not be to coherent. i have little time with this computer.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;don&#39;t know what their exact role is.&quot; <br />
&quot;Christians have been a force in this nation far longer than Jews have been&quot; &#8211; todd</p>
<p>not sure how to answer. probably dont have a good answer.</p>
<p>a weak attempt:</p>
<p>all i can say about &#39;exact role&#39;: political weight and money. shoulders for blame.</p>
<p>the rapture christians are a relatively recent creation. the early part of last century with  israel-centered schofield bible(some say support from untermeyer) and moody bible college(?). especially strong with tv last 30-40 years. it is here i find the jewish connection to the &quot;christians&quot;. if these schofield/moody preachers werent brainwashed into replacing christ with israel, jewry would not permit them the position they have. they would be tarnished as antisemites and idiots and banished back to the sticks.</p>
<p>may not be to coherent. i have little time with this computer.</p>
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