Max Boot at Commentary is going crazy over Joe Klein's assertion that Jewish neocons played an important role in pushing the Iraq war to make Israel safe. Myself I have trouble reading a blog entry this long. Also the tone is angry-trumpet:
It is dismaying to see Klein repeat the outrageous anti-Semitic fallacy which holds that any American action which benefits Israel to any degree and with which one disagrees is the product not of legitimate policy calculations but of a Zionist conspiracy...
Likewise, we are now entangled in Iraq because the president, Congress, and a large majority of the American population thought it was the right thing to do. To blame the current war on “the Jews”-or even to make the more qualified claim that Jewish supporters of the war were compromising American security for Israel’s benefit-is not worthy of a serious publication
Note to young writers: avoid the words, fallacy and outrageous. The problem with Boot's anger is, what if it's true that Jews concerned with Israel's safety hurt American interests in the Middle East? Some times these things happen. Then serious publications have to report them. And what if empowered Jews (I'm avoiding the word powerful to be nice) shut down museum exhibits in Chicago and discussions of Israel at the Council on Foreign Relations or Chicago Global Affairs Council? These are really serious questions. Fulminating won't make them go away.
Boot says Klein isn't backing down and Andrew Sullivan is supporting him. Wow, great. Walt and Mearsheimer will soon be vindicated, in the Atlantic. Interesting that people didn't go nuts when Klein said this 5 years ago. The fat's in the fire. It takes a fiasco to raise an idea.
(Thanks to Justin Elliott for the tip)
lifes a bitch….the elites always cause the problems while the
hoipolloi suffer the blowbacks….
the operative word for you all ought to be denounce, these bastages only care about political ideologies, separate yourselfs from the elite neocon lawmeisters whose revengefilled hearts make them haters extraordinaires.
Likewise, we are now subsidising agriculture because the president, Congress, and a large majority of the American population thought it was the right thing to do. To blame the situation on the political influence of farmers is not worthy of a serious publication.
it isnt just zionist jews who want to ethnically cleanse the palestinians….its a run a muck version of christianity which expects jesus to come back three times….the second time will be to sit on a throne in israel to rule as king.
the coolaid will set you free, drink up drink up ye fundamentalist.
this is michael reagan ranting and raving for the murder of palestinians…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntz7SWm-xWo&eurl=
Its still a fallacy that the AIPAC CAUSED US policy.
There were MANY voices urging US intervention in Iraq, of which a few pro-Israel voices were included.
You DO go farther than to describe, you ascribe.
For example, to ascribe unconnected events as suppression because a couple Jews did them, IS off the rational scale.
"There were MANY voices urging US intervention in Iraq, of which a few pro-Israel voices were included."–Witty
And where did they all get their stacked misinformation? Who stacked it?
Think about the early Bolsheviks; the demography of the early politburo, etc.
Look again at Witty's "a few." Check out the demographic proportions; this tells you much, though Witty won't listen
and just tosses out gas to minimize reality.
lets just treat israel like any other nation in the world.
no more no less.
Note that Joe Klein made the assertion:
"The notion that we could just waltz in and inject democracy into an extremely complicated, devout and ancient culture smacked–still smacks–of neocolonialist legerdemain. The fact that a great many Jewish neoconservatives–people like Joe Lieberman and the crowd over at Commentary–plumped for this war, and now for an even more foolish assault on Iran, raised the question of divided loyalties: using U.S. military power, U.S. lives and money, to make the world safe for Israel. And then there is the question–made manifest by the no-bid contracts offered U.S. oil companies by the Iraqis–of two oil executives, Bush and Cheney, securing a new source of business for their Texas buddies."
Klein expanded his point:
"Then, what can one say about Jennifer Rubin, who accuses me of antisemitism? I must say that's rather thrilling coming from the Commentary crowd. You want evidence of divided loyalties? How about the "benign domino theory" that so many Jewish neoconservatives talked to me about–off the record, of course–in the runup to the Iraq war, the idea that Israel's security could be won by taking out Saddam, which would set off a cascade of disaster for Israel's enemies in the region? As my grandmother would say, feh! Do you actually deny that the casus belli that dare not speak its name wasn't, as I wrote in February 2003, a desire to make the world safe for Israel? Why the rush now to bomb Iran, a country that poses some threat to Israel but none–for the moment–to the United States…unless we go ahead, attack it, and the mullahs unleash Hezbollah terrorists against us? Do you really believe the mullahs would stage a nuclear attack on Israel, destroying the third most holy site in Islam and killing untold numbers of Muslims? I am not ruling out the use of force against Iran–it may come to that–but you folks seem to embrace it gleefully."
Max Boot never actually rejected Klein's claims when he asserted:
"Pete and Paul have already made the correct and obvious rejoinder that Israel was not particularly hankering for an invasion of Iraq. In fact most Israelis were skeptical all along of the chances of implanting democracy in Iraq, and Iraq was never their biggest security concern. Iran was. If they had their druthers, they would much rather have seen American action against the mullahs rather than against Saddam Hussein."
Klein never claimed that Boot and his fellow members of the American Jewish Jabotinskian Zionist intelligentsia were shilling for the Israeli government.
An intelligentsia consists of mobilized intellectuals that attempts to mobilize for their cause.
The Neocons practiced with the Russian refusenik con scam.
Pipes has been working on variants of the Islamofascist con scam since since Khomeini's Rushdie fatwa.
The Neocons found their opportunity with the WTC attack.
Via scare-mongering they mobilized the rest of the Zionist intelligentsia (the non-Jabotinskians) and lots of Americans with no interest in Zionism, but more important they mobilized the American Jewish Zionist political economic oligarchs, who pay for the Israel Lobby and the organized Jewish community.
The Zionist oligarchs, their Zionist intelligentsia, and their staff run a virtual imperial state with total assets of approximately $200 billion and a VGNP (Virtual Gross Domestic Power) of approximately $2 (probably 3) trillion — in other words a good deal more political economic clout than the UK.
In theory the Zionist intelligentsia serves the Zionist Virtual Colonial Motherland, but rarely are the oligarchs actually mobilized, and most of them like Saban and Adelson are not particularly sophisticated political thinkers.
When the American Zionist Intelligentsia gets the Zionist Virtual Colonial Motherland on the one page that they have written, the Zionist intellectuals are in the driver seat of an incredibly powerful system for political manipulation.
Thus Boot and his friends were not serving the interests of the State of Israel, whose senior officials in general constitute only an insignificant criollo. They were serving the interests of the Zionist Virtual Colonial Motherland as defined by the American Jewish Jabotinskian Zionist intelligentsia.
Do Boot, Pipes, Podhoretz, Kristol, et. al. have dual loyalties?
Without a doubt — but dual loyalties like dual indentities do not constitute criminal behavior.
Yet, in their drive to dominate the discourse about ME policy, the Jabotinskian Intelligentsia has broken the US Criminal and Civil code all over the place and has involved both the American Jewish oligarchs and also numberous professional Jewish leaders throughout the organized Jewish community in major violations.
This power nexus has caused and is causing incalculable harm to the USA and to the American political system.
It must be neutralized, and neutralization means the same laws and penalties must apply to Jews and non-Jews here in the USA.
The Jabotinskians have attempted to use the US code to emasculate Arab and Muslim American individuals and organizations when there were no violations.
The same laws must be applied to Jewish Americans, and if Jewish American US government officials refuse to apply the same laws to Jews, these government officials are engaging in obstruction of justice even when they did not collaborate with the Neocon Jabotinskian intelligentsia in the original violations.
It is time to arrest and to try a lot of Zionist intelligentsia, Professional Jewish leaders, Jewish American oligarchs, and US government officials for some very serious criminal and civil violations.
witty dissemble again:
"its still a fallacy that the AIPAC CAUSED US policy."
Yes logically true but this is also logically true:
"its still a fallacy that the Hitler CAUSED WWII.
Ed, there is no way to manage the jewish dynamic using deportation or intermarriage per se or religious inquisition or extermination anylonger. Take a look at Martillo's theory. What we have now is a dual entity (virtual plus territorial) armed with nuclear deterrence. It's quite sophisticated, but it is not yet fully developed. On the other hand there is already in place a legal system able to deal with this threat.
"It must be neutralized, and neutralization means the same laws and penalties must apply to Jews and non-Jews here in the USA."
I think starting this process in the USA is only a first step. It must eventually reach global scale.
I believe the main focus of activism must be to expose jews acting to prevent the law from reaching jewish subjects. It's not that difficult because of the extent of the OJC.
Martillo has been doing this for some time, exposing the ways jews thwart muslim initiatives. Since jews are now an elite maybe young law graduates might find ways to exact money from them and in the process uncover entities and practices even more pernicious than aipac's.
"There were MANY voices urging US intervention in Iraq, of which a few pro-Israel voices were included."
Yes, but the influential ones were those of people like Paul Wolfowitz who was in the Oval Office the day after 9-11 demanding not, as one might suppose, that we bomb Afghanistan, but Iraq instead. If that's not dual loyalty, I don't know what is. Actually come to think of it, that isn't dual loyalty. It is rather primary allegiance to Israel by someone who is supposed to be working for America.
"that we bomb Afghanistan, but Iraq instead. If that's not dual loyalty,"
The strategic idea seems to have been to dry out the money sources. The Taliban let them live in their country, but maybe there was knowledge that they did not sponsor terrorism.
********************************************
No doubt the larger ideological frame of the "Arab mind" or pan-Arabism, the Muslims wanting to take over the world is closely related to Israel's experience in the ME, this feels indeed a bit like a scapegoat scenario to me.
The US can walk away with a clean slate, it is not able to do evil, and if it does, there must be foreign agents at work.
I can't see Cheny, Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice as has helpless in the hands of evil manipulating agents. I think the Israel angle feels so convincing since Israel's experience with the Arabs seemed the only "expertise" (the Iron wall/Arabs only understand force) avaiable, when the US was under shock and traumatized. With much help by media who broadcasted the fall of the towers in never ending loops again, again and again.
Finkelstein writes somewhere after Pearl Harbor one in ten Americans demanded that the Japanese races be extinguished. Rage is not always a good adviser. But it isn't an "ethnic" feature either, its a basic human emotion.
One question, I keep asking. Since I cannot make up my mind about a seeming contradiction in our larger manipulation of power tale:
The AIPAC/Larry Franklin espionage case about intelligence ending up via AIPAC personel in the Israeli embassy; ending with a 13 years prison sentence for passing on classfied information, not espionage.
versus
The reports of Karen Kwiatkowski
link to en.wikipedia.org
/>
that higher Israeli personel moved in and out of the Pentagon without the usual signing in routines.
How do these two contradictory stories go together? What are the basic regulations of such meetings, are we to assume there were further restrictions? Obligatory documentation, presence of minor employees. If there was a high level cooperation, surely intelligence was shared. What are the exact rules restricting matters? Interagency rules too, at the time. Basic signing in documentation routines were not kept? But all other restrictions?
http://www.shrunklink.com/atff:
… Franklin was one of 1,500[80] employees at Feith's Pentagon office, and officially worked six layers of bureaucracy beneath Feith. However, while leading the Office of Special Plans (OSP), Feith used Larry Franklin repeatedly for sensitive meetings involving foreign citizens, overseas.[81]
http://www.shrunklink.com/atfg
"Under Feith's authorization, Larry Franklin met with Iran-Contra figures; critics allege they discussed Iraq intelligence, while supporters say they discussed only the War on Terrorism.[2][3]"
What has Douglas Feith to say on this matter?
Could an attack on Iran lead to $8 gas and turn a recession into a depression?
The Coming Catastrophe?
The finishing touches on several contingency plans for attacking Iran
by David DeBatto
Global Research, June 23, 2008
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Global Research Editor's note
We bring to the attention of our readers David DeBatto's scenario as to what might occur if one of the several contingency plans to attack Iran, with the participation of Israel and NATO, were to be carried out. While one may disagree with certain elements of detail of the author's text, the thrust of this analysis must be taken seriously.
"Israel has said a strike on Iran will be "unavoidable" if the Islamic regime continues to press ahead with alleged plans for building an atom-bomb." (London Daily Telegraph, 6/11/2008)
"Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany joined President Bush on Wednesday in calling for further sanctions against Iran if it does not suspend its uranium enrichment program." Mr. Bush stressed again that "all options are on the table," which would include military force. (New York Times, 6/11/2008)
We are fast approaching the final six months of the Bush administration. The quagmire in Iraq is in its sixth painful year with no real end in sight and the forgotten war in Afghanistan is well into its seventh year. The "dead enders" and other armed factions are still alive and well in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan again controls most of that country. Gas prices have now reached an average of $4.00 a gallon nationally and several analysts predict the price will rise to $5.00-$6.00 dollars per gallon at the pump by Labor Day. This, despite assurances by some major supporters of the decision to invade Iraq that the Iraq war "will pay for itself" (Paul Wolfowitz) or that we will see "$20.00 per barrel" oil prices if we invade Iraq (Rupert Murdoch).
One thing the Pentagon routinely does (and does very well) is conduct war games. Top brass there are constantly developing strategies for conducting any number of theoretical missions based on real or perceived threats to our national security or vital interests. This was also done prior to the invasion of Iraq, but the Bush administration chose not to listen to the dire warnings about that mission given to him by Pentagon leaders, or for that matter, by his own senior intelligence officials. Nevertheless, war gaming is in full swing again right now with the bullseye just to the right of our current mess – Iran.
It’s no secret that the U.S. is currently putting the finishing touches on several contingency plans for attacking Iranian nuclear and military facilities. With our ground forces stretched to the breaking point in Iraq and Afghanistan, none of the most likely scenarios involve a ground invasion. Not that this administration wouldn’t prefer to march into the seat of Shiite Islam behind a solid, moving line of M1 Abrams tanks and proclaim the country for democracy. The fact is that even the President knows we can’t pull that off any more so he and the neo-cons will have to settle for Shock and Awe Lite.
If we invade Iran this year it will be done using hundreds of sorties by carrier based aircraft already stationed in the Persian Gulf and from land based aircraft located in Iraq and Qatar. They will strike the known nuclear facilities located in and around Tehran and the rest of the country as well as bases containing major units of the Iranian military, anti-aircraft installations and units of the Revolutionary Guard (a separate and potent Iranian para-military organization).
Will this military action stop Iran’s efforts to develop nuclear weapons? Probably not. It will probably not even destroy all of their nuclear research facilities, the most sensitive of which are known to be underground, protected by tons of earth and reinforced concrete and steel designed to survive almost all attacks using conventional munitions. The Iranian military and Revolutionary Guard will most likely survive as well, although they will suffer significant casualties and major bases and command centers will undoubtedly be destroyed. However, since Iran has both a functioning Air Force, Navy (including submarines) and modern anti-aircraft capabilities, U.S. fighter-bombers will suffer casualties as well. This will not be a "Cake Walk" as with the U.S. led invasion of Iraq in 2003 when the Iraqi Army simply melted away and the Iraqi Air Force never even launched a single aircraft.
Not even close.
If the United States attacks Iran either this summer or this fall, the American people had better be prepared for a shock that may perhaps be even greater to the national psyche (and economy) than 9/11. First of all, there will be significant U.S. casualties in the initial invasion. American jets will be shot down and the American pilots who are not killed will be taken prisoner – including female pilots. Iranian Yakhonts 26, Sunburn 22 and Exocet missiles will seek out and strike U.S. naval battle groups bottled up in the narrow waters of the Persian Gulf with very deadly results. American sailors will be killed and U.S. ships will be badly damaged and perhaps sunk. We may even witness the first attack on an American Aircraft carrier since World War II.
That’s just the opening act.
Israel (who had thus far stayed out of the fray by letting the U.S. military do the heavy lifting) is attacked by Hezbollah in a coordinated and large scale effort. Widespread and grisly casualties effectively paralyze the nation, a notion once thought impossible. Iran’s newest ally in the region, Syria, then unleashes a barrage of over 200 Scud B, C and D missiles at Israel, each armed with VX gas. Since all of Israel is within range of these Russian built weapons, Haifa, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and virtually all major civilian centers and several military bases are struck, often with a result of massive casualties.
The Israeli Air Force orders all three squadrons of their F-16I Sufa fighter/bombers into the air with orders to bomb Tehran and as many military and nuclear bases as they can before they are either shot down or run out of fuel. It is a one way trip for some of these pilots. Their ancient homeland lies in ruins. Many have family that is already dead or dying. They do not wait for permission from Washington, DC or U.S. regional military commanders. The Israeli aircraft are carrying the majority of their country’s nuclear arsenal under their wings.
Just after the first waves of U.S. bombers cross into Iranian airspace, the Iranian Navy, using shore based missiles and small, fast attack craft sinks several oil tankers in the Straits of Hormuz, sealing off the Persian Gulf and all its oil from the rest of the world. They then mine the area, making it difficult and even deadly for American minesweepers to clear the straits. Whatever is left of the Iranian Navy and Air Force harasses our Navy as it attempts minesweeping operations. More U.S casualties.
The day after the invasion Wall Street (and to a lesser extent, Tokyo, London and Frankfurt) acts as it always does in an international crisis – irrational speculative and spot buying reaches fever pitch and sends the cost of oil skyrocketing. In the immediate aftermath of the U.S. invasion of Iran, the price of oil goes to $200.00 – $300.00 dollars a barrel on the open market. If the war is not resolved in a few weeks, that price could rise even higher. This will send the price of gasoline at the pump in this country to $8.00-$10.00 per gallon immediately and subsequently to even higher unthinkable levels.
If that happens, this country shuts down. Most Americans are not be able to afford gas to go to work. Truckers pull their big rigs to the side of the road and simply walk away. Food, medicine and other critical products are not be brought to stores. Gas and electricity (what is left of the short supply) are too expensive for most people to afford. Children, the sick and elderly die from lack of air-conditioned homes and hospitals in the summer. Children, the sick and elderly die in the winter for lack of heat. There are food riots across the country. A barter system takes the place of currency and credit as the economy dissolves and banks close or limit withdrawals. Civil unrest builds.
The police are unable to contain the violence and are themselves victims of the same crisis as the rest of the population. Civilian rule dissolves and Martial Law is declared under provisions approved under the Patriot Act. Regular U.S. Army and Marine troops patrol the streets. The federal government apparatus is moved to an unknown but secure location. The United States descends into chaos and becomes a third world country. Its time as the lone superpower is over.
It doesn’t get any worse than this.
Then the first Israeli bomber drops its nuclear payload on Tehran.
David DeBatto is a former U.S. Army Counterintelligence Special Agent, Iraqi war veteran and co-author the "CI" series from Warner Books and the upcoming "Counter to Intelligence" from Praeger Security International.
Global Research Articles by David DeBatto
Actually, it does get worse.
As I remember, during the collapse of the Soviet Union, there were stories of Iranian agents, who were trying to purchase nuclear devices.
What if the Iranians have a few operative Soviet nuclear weapons?
Any way I read a review of Farewell Israel. It puts the Iranian issue in perspective:
See “Farewell Israel”: Myth and Reality for the rest.
OMG
Wow, a Jewish neocon is mad about criticism of the massive influence of Jewish neocons.
I hear water is wet, too.