"And what does it mean that Haim Saban, an ardent Zionist, and Martin Indyk have associations with Adelson?"

He most likely IS part of the continuum of establishment. He probably donates to Hadassah Hospital, to the Hebrew University, to Birthright as you said (I differ with you as to the xenophobic character of it).

"58 percent of American Jews are for an undivided Jerusalem"

I'm actually surprised that the number is that low. I am for an undivided Jerusalem if it is possible without oppressing.

Given a setting of CLEAR choice, CONFIDENT peace or all of annexed Jerusalem, I expect that the numbers would shift.

The problem though has been that there has NOT been confident peace offered. If Hamas succeeds in convincing the cadre to restrain from shelling, then maybe there is the prospect of it, someone to negotiate with.

In some ways the left goes into a restaurant and insists on being served an item that is not on the menu.

Better to ACTUALLY construct options, than demand options, or to compulse.

"And what does it mean that Haim Saban, an ardent Zionist, and Martin Indyk have associations with Adelson?"

He most likely IS part of the continuum of establishment. He probably donates to Hadassah Hospital, to the Hebrew University, to Birthright as you said (I differ with you as to the xenophobic character of it).

"58 percent of American Jews are for an undivided Jerusalem"

I'm actually surprised that the number is that low. I am for an undivided Jerusalem if it is possible without oppressing.

Given a setting of CLEAR choice, CONFIDENT peace or all of annexed Jerusalem, I expect that the numbers would shift.

The problem though has been that there has NOT been confident peace offered. If Hamas succeeds in convincing the cadre to restrain from shelling, then maybe there is the prospect of it, someone to negotiate with.

In some ways the left goes into a restaurant and insists on being served an item that is not on the menu.

Better to ACTUALLY construct options, than demand options, or to compulse.

There are more liberal Zionists than conservative, both in Israel and in the US.

But like the economy, numbers and need don't count so much, except numbers of dollars.

Zionism is a good in the world, in that it represents a LARGE qualitative shift among the Jewish people (both in Europe and in the US) from victim to assertion.

It remains part of the narrative because of the importance of the change in consciousness.

And, it takes subsequent generations to get to kind Zionist, which is being worked on.

One approach is to suicide the association of being Jewish, or if an Israeli citizen, of being Israeli.

Those that suicide their identity in some way, disappear.

The best that can happen is transformation of one's behavior, not dissolution, not denial of one's identity, not resentment.

Staying IN the game, and changing it.

We need assertion without hatred of arabs, and that's what neither Israel nor Zionists seem capable of managing. Since hatred of arabs is so intrinsic to Israel, it cannot be liberal.

i was trying to explain this infection to a friend, obamamaniac, who did not want to hear it. she has degrees from stanford and harvard if that means anything. i asked her why not, since she is interested in politics. she said it was like poverty. no one wants to talk of poverty either. it is too global, too overwhelming.
would someone give me a response to this comment of a smart person? is it an excuse? is it true? it's just too overwhelming and we are powerless so why even know about it?

Witty: "Sorry Otto. You're just wrong. There are more liberal Zionists than conservative both in Israel and in the US."

Otto is exactly right. Zionism is hard core Jewish nationalism. Saying one can simultaneously be a liberal and a hard core ethnic nationalist is a contradiction in terms. Jews are only able to get away with this because they have predominated on the left and in the left liberal establishment for so long. They paper over the rank hypocrisy with semantics by simply calling hard core Jewish nationalism Zionism instead of what it really is, and most on the left pretend not to notice, just as they pretend not to notice what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. All of this is consistent with Jewish Zionism's supremacist attitudes, which can be summarized as: we don't have to practice what we preach, because we are Jews. That the left tolerates this also goes to its own moral and ideological corruption.

Between Connie Bruck's piece on Adelson, and Sy Hersh's exposition of the escalating covert war on Iran, the New Yorker is blowing away the Sulzbuggers' Old Grey Meretrix of Eighth Avenue.

One hopes the taggers don't embellish the shiny new skyscraper with "Blow Job 50 Dollah." Of course, if Maureen the Red-Haired Minx is the provider, I might be in the market myself on my way to the bus station.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlFO-7vfhJc