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	<title>Comments on: In &#8217;1948&#8242; History, Benny Morris Cites Only Israeli Sources for Atrocities at Deir Yassin and Jaffa</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 03:33:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: charles  Keating</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56110</link>
		<dc:creator>charles  Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56110</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Witty likes Morris&#039;s approach, as he has said on this blog. On the other hand, he doesn&#039;t like W/M&#039;s approach, implying it is essentially propaganda--despite the fact that, unlike Morris, W/M sources are significantly Jewish....&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Nothing like a reasonable person.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Witty likes Morris&#39;s approach, as he has said on this blog. On the other hand, he doesn&#39;t like W/M&#39;s approach, implying it is essentially propaganda&#8211;despite the fact that, unlike Morris, W/M sources are significantly Jewish&#8230;.</p>
<p>Nothing like a reasonable person.</p>
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		<title>By: 5 dancing shlomos</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56111</link>
		<dc:creator>5 dancing shlomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56111</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;the nyt is israeli.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the nyt is israeli.</p>
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		<title>By: 5 dancing shlomos</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56112</link>
		<dc:creator>5 dancing shlomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56112</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;charles keating&#039;s post reminded me of witty and mr sword. i dont think witty believes the crap he posts. witty is simply a witting propagandist like the nyt (and wa post) - lie because that is what we are. sword on the other hand is too far gone. he believes. his parents and community were 100% effective.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>charles keating&#39;s post reminded me of witty and mr sword. i dont think witty believes the crap he posts. witty is simply a witting propagandist like the nyt (and wa post) &#8211; lie because that is what we are. sword on the other hand is too far gone. he believes. his parents and community were 100% effective.</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56113</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56113</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, Phil. I noticed too that he doesn&#039;t dare to go near research others have done, e.g. Avi Shlaim, in what I read so far. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe Richard would force us much less to raise our eyebrows if he had a different hero?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I hope your dog will be fine soon.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Phil. I noticed too that he doesn&#39;t dare to go near research others have done, e.g. Avi Shlaim, in what I read so far. </p>
<p>Maybe Richard would force us much less to raise our eyebrows if he had a different hero?</p>
<p>I hope your dog will be fine soon.</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56114</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56114</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;witty is simply a witting propagandist&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;No, Slomo, Richard is afraid, compared with Bill a moderate living in the shadows of the Holocaust.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;witty is simply a witting propagandist&quot;</p>
<p>No, Slomo, Richard is afraid, compared with Bill a moderate living in the shadows of the Holocaust.</p>
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		<title>By: charles  Keating</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56115</link>
		<dc:creator>charles  Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56115</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;On the upside, I just read the first 100 (of over 400) posted comments to Morris&#039;s article and over 95% totally opposed&lt;br /&gt;
Morris&#039;s expressed POV, many taking issue with his many easily deflatable assumptions stated as fact. Perhaps the MSM will eventually get a clue? &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the upside, I just read the first 100 (of over 400) posted comments to Morris&#39;s article and over 95% totally opposed<br />
Morris&#39;s expressed POV, many taking issue with his many easily deflatable assumptions stated as fact. Perhaps the MSM will eventually get a clue? </p>
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		<title>By: charles  Keating</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56116</link>
		<dc:creator>charles  Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56116</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here&#039;s a few of Morris&#039;s wild claims beating the drums for war&lt;br /&gt;
on Iran for all you Americans out there:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://pbsmonitor.blogspot.com/2008/07/ny-times-op-ed-claims-israel-will.html&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It looks like Morris borrowed Bush&#039;s crib sheet from Chaney-Wolfowitz-Pearl-Wurmser-Feith et al...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Will America awake too late? Over the next months we will find out.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#39;s a few of Morris&#39;s wild claims beating the drums for war<br />
on Iran for all you Americans out there:</p>
<p>http://pbsmonitor.blogspot.com/2008/07/ny-times-op-ed-claims-israel-will.html</p>
<p>It looks like Morris borrowed Bush&#39;s crib sheet from Chaney-Wolfowitz-Pearl-Wurmser-Feith et al&#8230;</p>
<p>Will America awake too late? Over the next months we will find out.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56117</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56117</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think Phil&#039;s statement &quot;I am not saying that these documents are inaccurate.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;is the most accurate statement in the &quot;review&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As Phil resents the hatchet job&#039;s of Walt/Mearsheimer&#039;s work by people insufficiently informed to undertake a hatchet job, I wish that Phil would have the same humility that he demands of others.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I haven&#039;t read the book. I don&#039;t know Morris personally at all.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To not include Pappe or Segev in a bibliography is not a serious omission. They are self-avowed advocates, and secondarily historians.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Kimmerling is a better source.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In Righteous Victims, Morris did describe Deir Yassin as a massacre, and was one of the first credible (then not so credible) historians, to consider the Palestinian experience as important.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This work is most likely more his opinion, his conclusion, having studied the originating documentation now for three decades.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I can understand how it would gall an activist to hear that he has concluded that there was not ethnic cleansing as in intended permanent forced removal as a primary aim.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;Betrayal&quot; (a very emotional term), is a word often quoted by leftists to describe Morris work (including Palestinian activists that have widely quoted Morris for decades until 2005).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They are hoping for an objective slam-dunk. &quot;See, I knew it.&quot; &quot;I was wrong in my earlier conclusions about the character of the original settlement and independance effort&quot; is not what they want to hear.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And, Phil apparently does not want to hear that it was a war, and that military objectives superceded civil. It is truth that under the cover of military legitimacy, illegitimate means were employed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For example, even if it were militarily legitimate to capture and control Deir Yassin, it was not necessary to conduct anything resembling mass killing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe after reading the book, I&#039;ll have the same reaction as Phil, that Morris folded on his conscience.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Or, maybe after reading the book, I&#039;ll have the oppossite reaction, that Phil folded on his journalistic standards and commitment to truth (in criticizing the way the truth was told).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In hearing a first-person account, say of the holocaust (which I have), or of the nakba (which Phil describes), I can trust &quot;I statements&quot;. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;I was moved from x to y. A gun was pointed at my head at z. I felt...&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is IMPOSSIBLE to rationally conclude &quot;The IDF sought to do x...&quot; That conclusion is outside of their experience, their possible experience. It is unknowable.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Pappe and others have added their conclusions that  persons A, B, C each described similar, and x statement in the archives confirms that A,B,C&#039;s conclusion is possible.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The historical question is is their math conclusive, or is Phil and others being told and repeating an embellishment.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They&#039;ve concluded that what THEY took in from &quot;Exodus&quot; was not the complete or accurate sentiment, and have REACTED against interpretations or interpreters that incorporate any element of the sentiment as truth, even if they derived that sentiment AFTER thorough investigation.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;How could Morris betray us?&quot; &quot;He should live by what we conclude.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So much for free speech.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Phil&#39;s statement &quot;I am not saying that these documents are inaccurate.&quot;</p>
<p>is the most accurate statement in the &quot;review&quot;.</p>
<p>As Phil resents the hatchet job&#39;s of Walt/Mearsheimer&#39;s work by people insufficiently informed to undertake a hatchet job, I wish that Phil would have the same humility that he demands of others.</p>
<p>I haven&#39;t read the book. I don&#39;t know Morris personally at all.</p>
<p>To not include Pappe or Segev in a bibliography is not a serious omission. They are self-avowed advocates, and secondarily historians.</p>
<p>Kimmerling is a better source.</p>
<p>In Righteous Victims, Morris did describe Deir Yassin as a massacre, and was one of the first credible (then not so credible) historians, to consider the Palestinian experience as important.</p>
<p>This work is most likely more his opinion, his conclusion, having studied the originating documentation now for three decades.</p>
<p>I can understand how it would gall an activist to hear that he has concluded that there was not ethnic cleansing as in intended permanent forced removal as a primary aim.</p>
<p>&quot;Betrayal&quot; (a very emotional term), is a word often quoted by leftists to describe Morris work (including Palestinian activists that have widely quoted Morris for decades until 2005).</p>
<p>They are hoping for an objective slam-dunk. &quot;See, I knew it.&quot; &quot;I was wrong in my earlier conclusions about the character of the original settlement and independance effort&quot; is not what they want to hear.</p>
<p>And, Phil apparently does not want to hear that it was a war, and that military objectives superceded civil. It is truth that under the cover of military legitimacy, illegitimate means were employed.</p>
<p>For example, even if it were militarily legitimate to capture and control Deir Yassin, it was not necessary to conduct anything resembling mass killing.</p>
<p>Maybe after reading the book, I&#39;ll have the same reaction as Phil, that Morris folded on his conscience.</p>
<p>Or, maybe after reading the book, I&#39;ll have the oppossite reaction, that Phil folded on his journalistic standards and commitment to truth (in criticizing the way the truth was told).</p>
<p>In hearing a first-person account, say of the holocaust (which I have), or of the nakba (which Phil describes), I can trust &quot;I statements&quot;. </p>
<p>&quot;I was moved from x to y. A gun was pointed at my head at z. I felt&#8230;&quot;</p>
<p>It is IMPOSSIBLE to rationally conclude &quot;The IDF sought to do x&#8230;&quot; That conclusion is outside of their experience, their possible experience. It is unknowable.</p>
<p>Pappe and others have added their conclusions that  persons A, B, C each described similar, and x statement in the archives confirms that A,B,C&#39;s conclusion is possible.</p>
<p>The historical question is is their math conclusive, or is Phil and others being told and repeating an embellishment.</p>
<p>They&#39;ve concluded that what THEY took in from &quot;Exodus&quot; was not the complete or accurate sentiment, and have REACTED against interpretations or interpreters that incorporate any element of the sentiment as truth, even if they derived that sentiment AFTER thorough investigation.</p>
<p>&quot;How could Morris betray us?&quot; &quot;He should live by what we conclude.&quot;</p>
<p>So much for free speech.</p>
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		<title>By: charles  Keating</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56118</link>
		<dc:creator>charles  Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hitler&#039;s &quot;final solution&quot; never existed on paper either. Nor did The Great White Father in Washington ever order extermination of the natives. People were moved from point A to point B; it was a time of war, demographics were on minds, things were untidy&lt;br /&gt;
(a la Rummy), insecticides were in common use; they had none for the Indians&#039; gvoernment rugs... &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That said, Witty&#039;s response is coherent; it needs some context:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.counterpunch.org/carey07192008.html&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitler&#39;s &quot;final solution&quot; never existed on paper either. Nor did The Great White Father in Washington ever order extermination of the natives. People were moved from point A to point B; it was a time of war, demographics were on minds, things were untidy<br />
(a la Rummy), insecticides were in common use; they had none for the Indians&#39; gvoernment rugs&#8230; </p>
<p>That said, Witty&#39;s response is coherent; it needs some context:<br />
<a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/carey07192008.html/p">link to counterpunch.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: the Sword of Gideon</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/07/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html/comment-page-1#comment-56119</link>
		<dc:creator>the Sword of Gideon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/07/19/todays-times-printed-a-shockingly-belligerent-piece-by-benny-morris-arguing-for-devastating-strikes-now-against-iran-so-that.html#comment-56119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Another day without a comment from Phil Weiss on Samir Kuntar. I know that Kuntar is a hero to you guys so he probably doesn&#039;t want to antagonize his fan base. Of course the other explanation is that Kuntar is a Phil Weiss kind of guy. We can only wonder.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another day without a comment from Phil Weiss on Samir Kuntar. I know that Kuntar is a hero to you guys so he probably doesn&#39;t want to antagonize his fan base. Of course the other explanation is that Kuntar is a Phil Weiss kind of guy. We can only wonder.</p>
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