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	<title>Comments on: Antisemites Are on My Side of These Issues. How Much Should I Care?</title>
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	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 03:33:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: LanceThruster</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54533</link>
		<dc:creator>LanceThruster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54533</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s a case of misdirection to think that someone&#039;s argument is somehow negated because unsavory groups/individuals agree with it. I&#039;d also discount a lot of the knee-jerk smears claiming someone is an anti-Semite for the positions that they have regarding Israel/Zionism. Every piece that I read in the papers about Walt &amp; Mearsheimer&#039;s &quot;Israel Lobby&quot; book opened with the line (meme actually) that David Duke agrees with them. Look how many Zionist racists agree with any particular Israeli position and you can see that this happens across the board yet is only used as an argument against one side.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#39;s a case of misdirection to think that someone&#39;s argument is somehow negated because unsavory groups/individuals agree with it. I&#39;d also discount a lot of the knee-jerk smears claiming someone is an anti-Semite for the positions that they have regarding Israel/Zionism. Every piece that I read in the papers about Walt &amp; Mearsheimer&#39;s &quot;Israel Lobby&quot; book opened with the line (meme actually) that David Duke agrees with them. Look how many Zionist racists agree with any particular Israeli position and you can see that this happens across the board yet is only used as an argument against one side.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54534</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54534</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You should care Phil.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You do feed them. There are ways that you could state your theses that would express similar content, but doesn&#039;t feed them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is a minefield. In a minefield, you can&#039;t really whine that it is a minefield, you have to personally walk carefully so as not to make things worse (or get yourself blown up), and remove the mines that are there to the extent that you are able.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Where is the forest?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Reacting to incidents makes sense if it contributes to a coherent and benevolent thesis. If you are documenting only a series of irritations, that will either end up contradictory, or a trivial propaganda exercise.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It likely won&#039;t succeed in uncovering flaws in various neo-conservatives&#039; theses.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To my mind, there are two critical flaws in their thesis.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1. Is the gamble that any specific escapade will be containable. USUALLY, interventions spin out, causing side conflicts that grow. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;2. Is the creation of a status of empire/vassal by the intervention itself. Only a very charitable entity will undertake a military escapade for the greater good and then not opportune on the basis of it. (For what its worth, it is possible that the US will end up being that charitable in Iraq. US taxpayers footing the bill and many of the lives lost, but with no permanent base, oil drilling or pipeline contracts.)&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should care Phil.</p>
<p>You do feed them. There are ways that you could state your theses that would express similar content, but doesn&#39;t feed them.</p>
<p>It is a minefield. In a minefield, you can&#39;t really whine that it is a minefield, you have to personally walk carefully so as not to make things worse (or get yourself blown up), and remove the mines that are there to the extent that you are able.</p>
<p>Where is the forest?</p>
<p>Reacting to incidents makes sense if it contributes to a coherent and benevolent thesis. If you are documenting only a series of irritations, that will either end up contradictory, or a trivial propaganda exercise.</p>
<p>It likely won&#39;t succeed in uncovering flaws in various neo-conservatives&#39; theses.</p>
<p>To my mind, there are two critical flaws in their thesis.</p>
<p>1. Is the gamble that any specific escapade will be containable. USUALLY, interventions spin out, causing side conflicts that grow. </p>
<p>2. Is the creation of a status of empire/vassal by the intervention itself. Only a very charitable entity will undertake a military escapade for the greater good and then not opportune on the basis of it. (For what its worth, it is possible that the US will end up being that charitable in Iraq. US taxpayers footing the bill and many of the lives lost, but with no permanent base, oil drilling or pipeline contracts.)</p>
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		<title>By: MRW.</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54535</link>
		<dc:creator>MRW.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54535</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Phil,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In all my readings of Philip Giraldi, I dont see what you read in his work: &lt;i&gt;Giraldi is angry at Jews, I can see that.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I can tell you what my non-Jewish friends tell me, and this includes friends in Manhattan who almost whispered it at the time. The anger is at not being allowed to talk about it. IT being Jewish political influence, Israel, national policy that does not serve US interests. The anger is at being muzzled. That anger mounts when so many lives are lost, and the economy tanks, and Christian crazies hijack a President.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You&#039;re going to see a lot of pressure valves explode before this evens out. To hurl &quot;anti-semitism&quot; &quot;anger at Jews&quot; [what are Jews? A religion? A race? A nation?] at this top coming off will undoubtedly exacerbate the situation. But maybe it&#039;s all to the good. It will hasten the discussion.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is why I enjoy your blog because I think you are correctly framing the needed discussion on both sides. I&#039;m not Jewish. But I have friends here in high places who have relatives back in Manhattan, and I hear from them &lt;i&gt;here&lt;/i&gt; that they can&#039;t talk to their relatives back home about Israel and what it&#039;s doing without the threat of banishment, and an accusation of betrayal for their views.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So there is a lot of loosening that has to happen on both sides.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,</p>
<p>In all my readings of Philip Giraldi, I dont see what you read in his work: <i>Giraldi is angry at Jews, I can see that.</i></p>
<p>I can tell you what my non-Jewish friends tell me, and this includes friends in Manhattan who almost whispered it at the time. The anger is at not being allowed to talk about it. IT being Jewish political influence, Israel, national policy that does not serve US interests. The anger is at being muzzled. That anger mounts when so many lives are lost, and the economy tanks, and Christian crazies hijack a President.</p>
<p>You&#39;re going to see a lot of pressure valves explode before this evens out. To hurl &quot;anti-semitism&quot; &quot;anger at Jews&quot; [what are Jews? A religion? A race? A nation?] at this top coming off will undoubtedly exacerbate the situation. But maybe it&#39;s all to the good. It will hasten the discussion.</p>
<p>This is why I enjoy your blog because I think you are correctly framing the needed discussion on both sides. I&#39;m not Jewish. But I have friends here in high places who have relatives back in Manhattan, and I hear from them <i>here</i> that they can&#39;t talk to their relatives back home about Israel and what it&#39;s doing without the threat of banishment, and an accusation of betrayal for their views.</p>
<p>So there is a lot of loosening that has to happen on both sides.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54536</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54536</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is a great post Philip.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I generally agree with your take, although I am surprised as to how serious many people appear to Noah Pollak on the topic of biases, he is after all part of Daniel Pipes&#039; Middle East Forum and Campus Watch -- the McCarthite wing and anti-Arab side of the Israel lobby.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m tempted to claim that &quot;it takes one to know one.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great post Philip.</p>
<p>I generally agree with your take, although I am surprised as to how serious many people appear to Noah Pollak on the topic of biases, he is after all part of Daniel Pipes&#39; Middle East Forum and Campus Watch &#8212; the McCarthite wing and anti-Arab side of the Israel lobby.</p>
<p>I&#39;m tempted to claim that &quot;it takes one to know one.&quot;</p>
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		<title>By: Klaus Bloemker, Frankfurt</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54537</link>
		<dc:creator>Klaus Bloemker, Frankfurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54537</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Follow the Israeli Sociologist Nathan Snaider&#039;s definition:&lt;br /&gt;
&quot;Anti-Semitism is hating the Jews more than necessary&quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
(You may substitute &#039;hate&#039; by &#039;criticise&#039;.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;  &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Follow the Israeli Sociologist Nathan Snaider&#39;s definition:<br />
&quot;Anti-Semitism is hating the Jews more than necessary&quot;. <br />
(You may substitute &#39;hate&#39; by &#39;criticise&#39;.)</p></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54538</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54538</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Does it have any meaning to say &quot;x is more spiritually evolved?&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When I hear that, I wonder if:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1. They really know me&lt;br /&gt;
2. They are being viciously sarcastic&lt;br /&gt;
or &lt;br /&gt;
3. They are dismissing their own experience and reflection&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
On ethics. My sense is that you are pursuing this line because of a commitment to what is mutual decent.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A bigger picture, the commitment to what is MUTUALLY DECENT.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The right-wing, old and new con, the anti-semitic far right and far left, don&#039;t give a shit about mutual decency. They are in a war. They usually aren&#039;t fighting to genocide, but they are often fighting to silence.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And, in the name of opening dialog, you do feed the reasoning and emotional pitch of those that wish that all Jews would keep to their place.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Their offense at the term &quot;chosen people&quot; isn&#039;t that anyone is preferred (a misapplication of the term anyway), but that their selected elite isn&#039;t.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Those that regard the &quot;white race&quot; as the natural sovereign of North America, don&#039;t want wetbacks, Jews, blacks, to have voice. They certainly don&#039;t want to acknowledge that they are living on &quot;stolen&quot; land, that they have an perpetual obligation that accompanies their &quot;property&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Thats DIFFERENT that your effort to find a principled approach, a principled criticism.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it have any meaning to say &quot;x is more spiritually evolved?&quot;</p>
<p>When I hear that, I wonder if:</p>
<p>1. They really know me<br />
2. They are being viciously sarcastic<br />
or <br />
3. They are dismissing their own experience and reflection</p>
<p>
On ethics. My sense is that you are pursuing this line because of a commitment to what is mutual decent.</p>
<p>A bigger picture, the commitment to what is MUTUALLY DECENT.</p>
<p>The right-wing, old and new con, the anti-semitic far right and far left, don&#39;t give a shit about mutual decency. They are in a war. They usually aren&#39;t fighting to genocide, but they are often fighting to silence.</p>
<p>And, in the name of opening dialog, you do feed the reasoning and emotional pitch of those that wish that all Jews would keep to their place.</p>
<p>Their offense at the term &quot;chosen people&quot; isn&#39;t that anyone is preferred (a misapplication of the term anyway), but that their selected elite isn&#39;t.</p>
<p>Those that regard the &quot;white race&quot; as the natural sovereign of North America, don&#39;t want wetbacks, Jews, blacks, to have voice. They certainly don&#39;t want to acknowledge that they are living on &quot;stolen&quot; land, that they have an perpetual obligation that accompanies their &quot;property&quot;.</p>
<p>Thats DIFFERENT that your effort to find a principled approach, a principled criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54539</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54539</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Phil, this is a difficult issue, but what can you take as a compass other than your own feelings and reason? ...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Not too long ago (2002/3), I was pondering if Justin Raimondo, and thus antiwar.com were simply antisemites? The problem is the closer you look the more complicated matters get.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If, as you suggest, Richard possesses a higher spirituality than you, he has failed to communicate it to us. (apart from his dialog with you, or his admonitions about what is kosher and what not for you to write about.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Concerning Morris to cite one of us  &lt;a href=&quot;http://antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=13226&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;antisemites&quot;&lt;/a&gt; (or for Bill &quot;storm troopers&quot;:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;One of the first Israeli historians to admit that Israel forced the Arabs off their land was Benny Morris, a professor of Middle Eastern history at Ben-Gurion University. Morris does not, however, think that it was a bad thing to kill other people and take their property. He only regrets that all of the Arabs were not driven out in 1948 and in 2004 recommended that those who remain be dealt with like animals, saying &quot;Something like a cage has to be built for them…There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe he can try to explain again. Why he thinks Morris is right, why Israel should have driven out all Arabs in 1948? And what exactly would be the difference now.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, this is a difficult issue, but what can you take as a compass other than your own feelings and reason? &#8230;</p>
<p>Not too long ago (2002/3), I was pondering if Justin Raimondo, and thus antiwar.com were simply antisemites? The problem is the closer you look the more complicated matters get.</p>
<p>If, as you suggest, Richard possesses a higher spirituality than you, he has failed to communicate it to us. (apart from his dialog with you, or his admonitions about what is kosher and what not for you to write about.)</p>
<p>Concerning Morris to cite one of us  <a href="http://antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=13226" rel="nofollow">&quot;antisemites&quot;</a> (or for Bill &quot;storm troopers&quot;:</p>
<p><i>One of the first Israeli historians to admit that Israel forced the Arabs off their land was Benny Morris, a professor of Middle Eastern history at Ben-Gurion University. Morris does not, however, think that it was a bad thing to kill other people and take their property. He only regrets that all of the Arabs were not driven out in 1948 and in 2004 recommended that those who remain be dealt with like animals, saying &quot;Something like a cage has to be built for them…There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another.</i></p>
<p>Maybe he can try to explain again. Why he thinks Morris is right, why Israel should have driven out all Arabs in 1948? And what exactly would be the difference now.</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54540</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54540</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;US taxpayers footing the bill and many of the lives lost, but with no permanent base, oil drilling or pipeline contracts.)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hmmm? many &lt;i&gt;unspecified&lt;/i&gt; lives lost? Which are on your mind first? There is a very peculiar relation between lives and cost via tax. Bills, lives lost. Are these my antisemite, storm trooper, ... eyes only? &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;No doubt you are right: all would be if there will be &lt;i&gt;permanent bases&lt;/i&gt;. But fine from whose perspective?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe you should tell Phil privately whathis h&lt;i&gt;benevolent thesis&lt;/i&gt; should look like. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>US taxpayers footing the bill and many of the lives lost, but with no permanent base, oil drilling or pipeline contracts.)</i></p>
<p>Hmmm? many <i>unspecified</i> lives lost? Which are on your mind first? There is a very peculiar relation between lives and cost via tax. Bills, lives lost. Are these my antisemite, storm trooper, &#8230; eyes only? </p>
<p>No doubt you are right: all would be if there will be <i>permanent bases</i>. But fine from whose perspective?</p>
<p>Maybe you should tell Phil privately whathis h<i>benevolent thesis</i> should look like. </p>
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		<title>By: higginslads</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54541</link>
		<dc:creator>higginslads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54541</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think it&#039;s time to retire the term &quot;antisemite,&quot; being that it&#039;s been misused for so long. As I&#039;m sure most readers of Phil&#039;s blog are aware, an Arab is every bit as semitic as a Jew. Let&#039;s start calling things as they are: anti-Jewish sentiment should be called just that, anti-Jewish. Anti-Arab sentiment should likewise be properly defined. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#39;s time to retire the term &quot;antisemite,&quot; being that it&#39;s been misused for so long. As I&#39;m sure most readers of Phil&#39;s blog are aware, an Arab is every bit as semitic as a Jew. Let&#39;s start calling things as they are: anti-Jewish sentiment should be called just that, anti-Jewish. Anti-Arab sentiment should likewise be properly defined. </p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html/comment-page-1#comment-54542</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/13/antisemites-are-on-my-side-of-these-issues-how-much-should-i-care.html#comment-54542</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;all would be &lt;i&gt;fine&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Sorry. Rash mails, always tell you something, about emotions... So actually, not sorry.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.israelforum.com/board/archive/index.php/t-5697.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Daniel Barenboim&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;With pain in my heart, I ask today whether a situation of conquest and&lt;br /&gt;
control can be reconciled with Israel&#039;s Declaration of Independence?,&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
Barenboim said. &quot;Is there logic to the independence of one people if the&lt;br /&gt;
cost is a blow to the fundamental rights of another people? Can the Jewish&lt;br /&gt;
people, whose history is full of suffering and persecution, allow itself to&lt;br /&gt;
be apathetic about the rights and suffering of a neighboring people? Can the&lt;br /&gt;
State of Israel allow itself to indulge in an unrealistic dream whose&lt;br /&gt;
meaning is an ambition to bring an ideological resolution to the dispute,&lt;br /&gt;
rather than the aim of attaining a pragmatic, humanitarian solution, based&lt;br /&gt;
on social justice?&quot; Barenboim asked.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all would be <i>fine</i>.</p>
<p>Sorry. Rash mails, always tell you something, about emotions&#8230; So actually, not sorry.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.israelforum.com/board/archive/index.php/t-5697.html" rel="nofollow">Daniel Barenboim</a></p>
<p><i>&quot;With pain in my heart, I ask today whether a situation of conquest and<br />
control can be reconciled with Israel&#39;s Declaration of Independence?,&quot;<br />
Barenboim said. &quot;Is there logic to the independence of one people if the<br />
cost is a blow to the fundamental rights of another people? Can the Jewish<br />
people, whose history is full of suffering and persecution, allow itself to<br />
be apathetic about the rights and suffering of a neighboring people? Can the<br />
State of Israel allow itself to indulge in an unrealistic dream whose<br />
meaning is an ambition to bring an ideological resolution to the dispute,<br />
rather than the aim of attaining a pragmatic, humanitarian solution, based<br />
on social justice?&quot; Barenboim asked.</i></p>
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