Comments on: Diamond King Leviev’s Land Grab in the West Bank

By: cogit8

cogit8 — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

"'We are running out of time for a two-state solution'

By Akiva Eldar, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: Sari Nusseibeh"

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1011859.html

By: Steve F

Steve F — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

To my Palestinian friends (and their friends) – when you reject Camp David, then Taba and then foment a spree of terror, don't be surprised if the stronger party in the conflict then, and only then, questions whether there is anyone credible to deal with and builds a fence. Good thing you can petition injustices to the Israeli high court, get some recourse, and get some of your trees back. Too bad Israelis have no one to petition when injustices, such as, say, an exploding bus, is sent their way by the current gov't in Gaza. The occupation will end as soon as Israel has some reason to believe that it will be left alone after leaving the West Bank (and eastern Jerusalem). We sure ain't there yet.

By: Madrid

Madrid — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Steve F:

People who know anything about the conflict know that Israel was settling the West Bank in the 80's, through the 90's during the entire Oslo process, through to today. Your claim that the land confiscations came only after the failure of Camp David is risible, not based on reality.

It is perfectly clear to a non-biased observer of this conflict that Israel will only leave the occupied territories when it becomes too onerous, militarily, economically, and politically. It won't leave in any negotiated settlement. It negotiates out the necessity to do good PR.

Additionally, it is important for you to aknowledge that Israel is confiscating Palestinian land for its resources and for the religious value that is attached to the land by Jewish zealots, not out of any just punishment for Palestinians for their violent responses to Israeli aggression.

By: Richard Witty

Richard Witty — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Madrid,
Steve F didn't mention settlements. He mentioned negotiations that were undertaken seriously.

Even Sharon and now Olmert have come around to recognize that the two-state solution is the only currently viable one, and that with stresses.

The current reality is that Palestine is in a state of civil war, which severely diminishes its ability to negotiate and keep any promises made. Both Israel and Palestine face the difficult challenge following a successful negotiation of passage through their respective parliaments and plebiscites if adopted.

I distinguish questions of title from questions of sovereignty.

Title questions revolve around the status of individual tracts of land and other property. They are about relative rights and are therefore more complex than simple pronouncements by a state or faction or dissenting group.

In MANY cases, applying to land held by both Israelis and Palestinians, title is contested, and some consented manner of reconciliation is necessary.

The 1950's laws prohibiting return to former residences, and state annexation of "abandoned" land affects the title status of land within green line Israel. Post-1967 laws and administrative annexations and transfers affect the title status of land on the West Bank.

There are still lands in the West Bank, for which Jews have countering claims to prior Jordanian annexations, but those are far less than the Palestinian claims.

The question of sovereignty is a different question. It is the question of what jurisdiction and what law shall govern the jurisdiction, and by what means.

To equate the two questions distorts their resolution, and hinders the development of consistent rule of law in either region.

By: Steve F

Steve F — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Thanks Richard for taking down some of Madrid's straw men. Listen up lovers of Palestine. Israel is a democracy. The people elect the governments. The people consistently voice a desire for a 2-state solution. Speak to Israelis OR their supporters in the US. The mantra is the same – except for the crazies – we want to get out of the occupation biz. Olmert recognizes this. So did Barak and even Sharon. You can villify them all you want but by my observation they are the only occupiers looking to end their occupation today. All they ask is that they not be put in mortal danger.

By: MM

MM — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

All they ask is that they not be put in mortal danger.

And that they not be prosecuted for war crimes or required to pay any reparitions for the land they stole.

That's all they ask.

By: MM

MM — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

I don't know what reparitions are; I meant reparations.

By: Joachim Martillo

Joachim Martillo — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

The real-estate scam has always been a big part of Zionism. One could almost call it part of epistemic Yiddish culture. When my grandfather first came to the USA, an acquaintance of his from Poland was trying to get him involved within two weeks of his arrival in fraudulent real estate dealing in Florida.

See Scamming Americans Robbing Palestinians and an update in Followup: Scamming Americans Robbing Palestinians.

By: jim byers

jim byers — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Steve F, You bring up the Camp David agreements when Begin and the Knesset signed an agreement to withdraw to the '67 borders. Israel never keeps it's word in negotiations. If there is relative peace the IDF will find someone to assassinate. Israel has undermined probably every single peace proposal that has been offered or agreed to.

By: charles Keating

charles Keating — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

shelf agreement, anyone?