Comments on: Obama Just Acts Brainwashed to Hold on to the Lieberman Democrats http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 03:52:48 +0000 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54895 Anonymous Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54895 <p>I don't think Carter's loss had anything to do with the Israel lobby. It had to do with inflation and the Iranian hostage crisis, mainly. I have mixed feelings about Carter--any far lefty will tell you that Carter was well within the US foreign policy mainstream, which in part means that he was perfectly willing to support mass murderers, like the Indonesian military in East Timor. But he had his good points too. (It sounds funny to me to say that someone supported mass murderers but had good points too, but when one is talking about people in power you have to take for granted they are going to behave like sociopaths on some issues.) </p> <p>Anyway, Carter was perceived as weak and ineffectual and while some of this was unfair, perception is everything in politics. If anything, his success at Camp David was one of the few things where people gave him credit. So as harmful as the Israel lobby may be, it's silly to blame it for everything.</p> I don't think Carter's loss had anything to do with the Israel lobby. It had to do with inflation and the Iranian hostage crisis, mainly. I have mixed feelings about Carter–any far lefty will tell you that Carter was well within the US foreign policy mainstream, which in part means that he was perfectly willing to support mass murderers, like the Indonesian military in East Timor. But he had his good points too. (It sounds funny to me to say that someone supported mass murderers but had good points too, but when one is talking about people in power you have to take for granted they are going to behave like sociopaths on some issues.)

Anyway, Carter was perceived as weak and ineffectual and while some of this was unfair, perception is everything in politics. If anything, his success at Camp David was one of the few things where people gave him credit. So as harmful as the Israel lobby may be, it's silly to blame it for everything.

]]> By: the Sword of Gideon http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54896 the Sword of Gideon Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54896 <p>Nah, It was the Jews. Nothing to do with a sky high "misery index" and rolling over for the Iranians like a whipped dog. That couldn't be it.</p> Nah, It was the Jews. Nothing to do with a sky high "misery index" and rolling over for the Iranians like a whipped dog. That couldn't be it.

]]> By: otto http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54897 otto Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54897 <p>Carter kept the Israel lobby on board until after he was elected the first time. He dropped them later. With Obama, we shall see.</p> <p>Carter's failure to get reelected: well, there's lots going on here, as others have pointed out. And lots of leaders found it hard to get relected in the 1970s/early 1980s: Callaghan, Giscard d'Estang, even Schmidt. Unemployment and oil prices will do that to you. But even in broader economic circumstances, your friends and enemies count, and the Israeli lobby was by the end of Carter's term, Carter's enemy. It did not forgive - has never forgiven - Carter for forcing them to make peace with Egypt, and rightly feared that he might offer another dose of the same in a second term.</p> Carter kept the Israel lobby on board until after he was elected the first time. He dropped them later. With Obama, we shall see.

Carter's failure to get reelected: well, there's lots going on here, as others have pointed out. And lots of leaders found it hard to get relected in the 1970s/early 1980s: Callaghan, Giscard d'Estang, even Schmidt. Unemployment and oil prices will do that to you. But even in broader economic circumstances, your friends and enemies count, and the Israeli lobby was by the end of Carter's term, Carter's enemy. It did not forgive – has never forgiven – Carter for forcing them to make peace with Egypt, and rightly feared that he might offer another dose of the same in a second term.

]]> By: The Fanonite http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54898 The Fanonite Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54898 <p>Anonymous above represents the kind of head-up-their-arse, factually challenged bullshit that has reduced the 'left' to its present irrelevance.It brooks no fact in its zeal to confirm dogma by seeking out economic reasons to explain every event in history.</p> <p>What ensured Carter's defeat in 1980 was a combination of factors, some mentioned above, but Israel lobby being a key one among them. Carter's presidency had been dogged since day one by the various neoconservative front groups, in particular the Committee on Present Danger. His unprecedented call for austerity brought out all the hounddogs of reaction who derided him for wanting to undermine the American way, which in their view is one of affluence and ambition. But things went completely south after Camp David (which, recall, was signed in the face of lobby opposition) and after Carter threatened to cut off aid when Israel refused to withdraw from Lebanon. Israel directly intervened in US politics to ensure Carter's defeat. Begin was caught on an NSA wiretap giving instructions to the Mayor of New York (Ed Koch I believe) on how to go about it. This resulted in the largest swing away of Jewish voters from a Democratic candidate, costing him the key states.</p> Anonymous above represents the kind of head-up-their-arse, factually challenged bullshit that has reduced the 'left' to its present irrelevance.It brooks no fact in its zeal to confirm dogma by seeking out economic reasons to explain every event in history.

What ensured Carter's defeat in 1980 was a combination of factors, some mentioned above, but Israel lobby being a key one among them. Carter's presidency had been dogged since day one by the various neoconservative front groups, in particular the Committee on Present Danger. His unprecedented call for austerity brought out all the hounddogs of reaction who derided him for wanting to undermine the American way, which in their view is one of affluence and ambition. But things went completely south after Camp David (which, recall, was signed in the face of lobby opposition) and after Carter threatened to cut off aid when Israel refused to withdraw from Lebanon. Israel directly intervened in US politics to ensure Carter's defeat. Begin was caught on an NSA wiretap giving instructions to the Mayor of New York (Ed Koch I believe) on how to go about it. This resulted in the largest swing away of Jewish voters from a Democratic candidate, costing him the key states.

]]> By: the Sword of Gideon http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54899 the Sword of Gideon Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54899 <p>Sure, that's what did it. And we the LOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tipped the balance in a landslide victory for Reagan where he won 44 states including Georgia. I don't mind sparring with Phil and his merry bunch of storm troopers. But pick up a history book every now and then. Martillo is totally off the reservation. Obviously not getting "enough oral sex from his lovely bride, the lovely miss Karen. </p> Sure, that's what did it. And we the LOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tipped the balance in a landslide victory for Reagan where he won 44 states including Georgia. I don't mind sparring with Phil and his merry bunch of storm troopers. But pick up a history book every now and then. Martillo is totally off the reservation. Obviously not getting "enough oral sex from his lovely bride, the lovely miss Karen.

]]> By: Jim Haygood http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54900 Jim Haygood Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54900 <p>.</p> <p>"Carter had limited political gifts, Obama has giant ones."</p> <p>Remember the summer of 1976? No, not the girls (yo, Yolanda!), but the aura surrounding the Democratic political candidate. My brother, a journalist at the time, was so hyped on the fresh, Washington-outsider candidacy of Jimmy Carter. With his trademark 50,000-watt smile and gladhanding way with crowds, Carter's political gifts weren't all that limited.</p> <p>[Did you catch Phil's subliminal message? "Obama has giant ones," LOL!]</p> <p>Elections have a large pocketbook component. The oil shock, inflation and recession of today rhyme closely with 1979-1980, when Carter's re-election bid was quashed. The slow drip of the Iranian hostage crisis didn't help either.</p> <p>One praiseworthy aspect of the Carter presidency was that the U.S. was at peace. Carter didn't do much bombing in the Third World; didn't get very many U.S. service people killed.</p> <p>Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Obama. His call to escalate the hopeless Afghan occupation, and maybe even extend it into Pakistan, is a catastrophic error. It may very well make Obama a one-termer, like Carter and (more pertinently) like Lyndon Brownnose "Means of Ascent" Johnson, who bailed from seeking a second elected term in 1968 because of the unpopularity of his lethal, losing Asian war.</p> <p>What a crock, that Johnson derided Barry Goldwater in 1964 as a "loose nukes" nutcase, then went on to kill tens of thousands in his Vietnam debacle. Obama is the very mirror of Johnson's perfidy, posing as an Iraq War opponent thanks to his 2002 Chicago speech, while teeing up the coming Afghan bloodbath.</p> <p>Remember how the SDS hounded Johnson from office, taunting him with the chant -</p> <p>'Hey, hey, LBJ<br /> How many kids did you kill today?'</p> <p>This is how I'm gonna pound Obama's scrawny ass, from the day he's nominated till the day he leaves D.C. in disgrace:</p> <p>'Hey, hey, Barack Hussein<br /> How many kids have you killed in vain?'</p> <p>All hail the Viceroy of Vietghanistan ...</p> .

"Carter had limited political gifts, Obama has giant ones."

Remember the summer of 1976? No, not the girls (yo, Yolanda!), but the aura surrounding the Democratic political candidate. My brother, a journalist at the time, was so hyped on the fresh, Washington-outsider candidacy of Jimmy Carter. With his trademark 50,000-watt smile and gladhanding way with crowds, Carter's political gifts weren't all that limited.

[Did you catch Phil's subliminal message? "Obama has giant ones," LOL!]

Elections have a large pocketbook component. The oil shock, inflation and recession of today rhyme closely with 1979-1980, when Carter's re-election bid was quashed. The slow drip of the Iranian hostage crisis didn't help either.

One praiseworthy aspect of the Carter presidency was that the U.S. was at peace. Carter didn't do much bombing in the Third World; didn't get very many U.S. service people killed.

Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Obama. His call to escalate the hopeless Afghan occupation, and maybe even extend it into Pakistan, is a catastrophic error. It may very well make Obama a one-termer, like Carter and (more pertinently) like Lyndon Brownnose "Means of Ascent" Johnson, who bailed from seeking a second elected term in 1968 because of the unpopularity of his lethal, losing Asian war.

What a crock, that Johnson derided Barry Goldwater in 1964 as a "loose nukes" nutcase, then went on to kill tens of thousands in his Vietnam debacle. Obama is the very mirror of Johnson's perfidy, posing as an Iraq War opponent thanks to his 2002 Chicago speech, while teeing up the coming Afghan bloodbath.

Remember how the SDS hounded Johnson from office, taunting him with the chant -

'Hey, hey, LBJ
How many kids did you kill today?'

This is how I'm gonna pound Obama's scrawny ass, from the day he's nominated till the day he leaves D.C. in disgrace:

'Hey, hey, Barack Hussein
How many kids have you killed in vain?'

All hail the Viceroy of Vietghanistan …

]]> By: charles Keating http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54901 charles Keating Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54901 <p>Reagan's elections marked the entry of Jewish American voters into the Republican Party; He earned a respectable 31 percent of the Jewish vote in the 1984 elections, though it did not match the 39 percent he had won in 1980, when the pro-Reagan Jewish vote largely was the result of voter backlash against the policies of President Carter.</p> Reagan's elections marked the entry of Jewish American voters into the Republican Party; He earned a respectable 31 percent of the Jewish vote in the 1984 elections, though it did not match the 39 percent he had won in 1980, when the pro-Reagan Jewish vote largely was the result of voter backlash against the policies of President Carter.

]]> By: charles Keating http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54902 charles Keating Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54902 <p>"Martillo is totally off the reservation."--SOG</p> <p>What reservation is that, the one dedicated to vulgar morons?</p> "Martillo is totally off the reservation."–SOG

What reservation is that, the one dedicated to vulgar morons?

]]> By: the Sword of Gideon http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54903 the Sword of Gideon Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54903 <p>No Keating, a mental ward. He's mentally ill. What's your excuse. And your wifes?</p> No Keating, a mental ward. He's mentally ill. What's your excuse. And your wifes?

]]> By: Chuck http://mondoweiss.net/2008/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html/comment-page-1#comment-54904 Chuck Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/08/08/obama-just-acts-brainwashed-to-hold-on-to-the-lieberman-democrats.html#comment-54904 <p>SOG, we're not the least bit interested in reading your vulgar stupidity about either Mrs Keating or Mrs Martillo.</p> <p>We are, however, quite interested in learning why a bigmouth Zionazi such as yourself isn't over in Israel where you belong. Doesn't it get old for you being an alien in Christian America? How much longer until you hook up with rest of your tribe over in your Mediterranean homeland? Why do you keep dodging this question? Is there something about your exceedingly lame self that requires continued concealment? How much longer before you come clean on this?</p> SOG, we're not the least bit interested in reading your vulgar stupidity about either Mrs Keating or Mrs Martillo.

We are, however, quite interested in learning why a bigmouth Zionazi such as yourself isn't over in Israel where you belong. Doesn't it get old for you being an alien in Christian America? How much longer until you hook up with rest of your tribe over in your Mediterranean homeland? Why do you keep dodging this question? Is there something about your exceedingly lame self that requires continued concealment? How much longer before you come clean on this?

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