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	<title>Comments on: 78 Palestinian Groups Affirm &#8216;Right of Return&#8217; as Core Principle</title>
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	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html/comment-page-1#comment-50687</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/26/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html#comment-50687</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Again,&lt;br /&gt;
What does it mean tangibly?&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again,<br />
What does it mean tangibly?</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Murray</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html/comment-page-1#comment-50688</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/26/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html#comment-50688</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It means an end to colonization, the establishment of a bi-national state with an actual constitution, and Jewish fortitude to persevere through several generations of Palestinian resentment. If Israeli leaders were smart, they would be working on it already, but they are not smart, and I fully expect to see the half of Israelis who have foreign passports leaving their doomed state before the end of my lifetime. And the rest are welcome here. Jewish Israelis WILL agree to the &#039;Right of Return&#039; sooner or later, peacefully or not.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s a shame that Israelis don&#039;t recognize that in 1945 European Jews were faced with a bad choice (gun Zionism) and a worse choice (continuing to live amongst folks who just mass-murdered more than half their people). Not being insane, they chose the bad choice, but made no effort at all to mitigate the blowback. They have squandered the breathing room that American support has given them, and we are tired of subsidizing their poor choices. Our support is NOT some &#039;right&#039; that Zionists have: we &#039;owe&#039; you nothing. It is a choice that we gentiles make because it is proper and just to help undo two millennia of race hatred culminating in genocide. I am one of an irreversibly increasing number of gentiles who now realize (I didn&#039;t before I started paying attention after 9/11) that the conflict is NOT between good guys and bad guys, but rather between Jews and Palestinians both trapped in a theocratic colonial state and the stateless margins into which it is expanding. Extremist Zionists in America have made it impossible for Americans to play any role in Middle Eastern politics which might lead to a favorable long-term solution for Israel. Israel is lead by extremists who have no interest in peace, and who ruthlessly destroy every vestige of independent Palestinian political structure before it could conceivably turn into an alternate source of political legitimacy. I don&#039;t see how change can occur without intervention by Americans not beholden to the current &#039;lobby&#039;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I spent a number of years in government service, and always kept my eyes and ears open: &#039;the lobby&#039; rules by fear. I&#039;ve seen it with my own two eyes and heard it with my own two ears. Fear is a fundamentally unstable tool of &#039;persuasion&#039;. In spite of the bigotry and outright treason of &#039;neo-communist&#039; extremists, the blowback in America when the lobby finally falls will pass the larger Jewish community right on by. It is vicious and racist of neo-coms to assume that we gentiles in America are like the Germans of the 1930&#039;s: ready to blow up into violent antisemitism at the drop of a hat. There is a huge difference between antisemitism and hatred on the one hand, and anger at being unscrupulously used on the other. Stop being cowards: grow up and see reality for what it really is, not what you fear (or wish) it to be.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It means an end to colonization, the establishment of a bi-national state with an actual constitution, and Jewish fortitude to persevere through several generations of Palestinian resentment. If Israeli leaders were smart, they would be working on it already, but they are not smart, and I fully expect to see the half of Israelis who have foreign passports leaving their doomed state before the end of my lifetime. And the rest are welcome here. Jewish Israelis WILL agree to the &#39;Right of Return&#39; sooner or later, peacefully or not.</p>
<p>It&#39;s a shame that Israelis don&#39;t recognize that in 1945 European Jews were faced with a bad choice (gun Zionism) and a worse choice (continuing to live amongst folks who just mass-murdered more than half their people). Not being insane, they chose the bad choice, but made no effort at all to mitigate the blowback. They have squandered the breathing room that American support has given them, and we are tired of subsidizing their poor choices. Our support is NOT some &#39;right&#39; that Zionists have: we &#39;owe&#39; you nothing. It is a choice that we gentiles make because it is proper and just to help undo two millennia of race hatred culminating in genocide. I am one of an irreversibly increasing number of gentiles who now realize (I didn&#39;t before I started paying attention after 9/11) that the conflict is NOT between good guys and bad guys, but rather between Jews and Palestinians both trapped in a theocratic colonial state and the stateless margins into which it is expanding. Extremist Zionists in America have made it impossible for Americans to play any role in Middle Eastern politics which might lead to a favorable long-term solution for Israel. Israel is lead by extremists who have no interest in peace, and who ruthlessly destroy every vestige of independent Palestinian political structure before it could conceivably turn into an alternate source of political legitimacy. I don&#39;t see how change can occur without intervention by Americans not beholden to the current &#39;lobby&#39;.</p>
<p>I spent a number of years in government service, and always kept my eyes and ears open: &#39;the lobby&#39; rules by fear. I&#39;ve seen it with my own two eyes and heard it with my own two ears. Fear is a fundamentally unstable tool of &#39;persuasion&#39;. In spite of the bigotry and outright treason of &#39;neo-communist&#39; extremists, the blowback in America when the lobby finally falls will pass the larger Jewish community right on by. It is vicious and racist of neo-coms to assume that we gentiles in America are like the Germans of the 1930&#39;s: ready to blow up into violent antisemitism at the drop of a hat. There is a huge difference between antisemitism and hatred on the one hand, and anger at being unscrupulously used on the other. Stop being cowards: grow up and see reality for what it really is, not what you fear (or wish) it to be.</p>
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		<title>By: the Sword of Gideon</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html/comment-page-1#comment-50689</link>
		<dc:creator>the Sword of Gideon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/26/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html#comment-50689</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Interesting polemic from the Irish corner Colin. But let me ask you this. If Israel is led by extremists, ( not what I would call Livni ) but lets go with that. What are the Palestinian leaders. Nasrallah, Haniyeh, and the rest of the lads. Just a bunch of happy go lucky guys who tip toe through the tulips singing happy songs. Give it a shot before you go get drunk. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting polemic from the Irish corner Colin. But let me ask you this. If Israel is led by extremists, ( not what I would call Livni ) but lets go with that. What are the Palestinian leaders. Nasrallah, Haniyeh, and the rest of the lads. Just a bunch of happy go lucky guys who tip toe through the tulips singing happy songs. Give it a shot before you go get drunk. </p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html/comment-page-1#comment-50690</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/26/78-palestinian-groups-affirm-right-of-return-as-core-principle.html#comment-50690</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sword is right about this, Colin.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Its you who have given up on seeking peace.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A bi-national state is a far far larger commitment to acceptance of Jews in the region on the part of Palestinians than partition.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Two people that were at each other&#039;s throat are more appropriately separated than thrown together. Sometimes that works. But more often someone ends up bloody.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dogs that are pushed into the same contained room fight unto death. Only when they have someplace to get away, do they work it out, and then they usually do.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sword is right about this, Colin.</p>
<p>Its you who have given up on seeking peace.</p>
<p>A bi-national state is a far far larger commitment to acceptance of Jews in the region on the part of Palestinians than partition.</p>
<p>Two people that were at each other&#39;s throat are more appropriately separated than thrown together. Sometimes that works. But more often someone ends up bloody.</p>
<p>Dogs that are pushed into the same contained room fight unto death. Only when they have someplace to get away, do they work it out, and then they usually do.</p>
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