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	<title>Comments on: Communism Soured in &#8217;56, a Lot Like Zionism Now</title>
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	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:40:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: MRW.</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50621</link>
		<dc:creator>MRW.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Phil,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;Read this&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9E02E7DF1E39E13ABC4D53DFB5668382609EDE&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,</p>
<p><b>Read this</b><br />
<a href="http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9E02E7DF1E39E13ABC4D53DFB5668382609EDE</p>
<p>&#8220;>link to query.nytimes.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50622</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50622</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I derive a different lesson from Lessing, her work and her life.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That is that the POLITICAL approach, rather than ethical and deep (she adopted Sufism as a life-way) is rejected.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You are more repeating Ronald Reagon in your &quot;insights&quot; about &quot;something wrong in Denmark&quot; than Doris Lessing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There is something wrong in Israel, and in Palestine, and among activists.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That is to see others through prejudicial eyes, politically oriented.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In that light Zionist, anti-Zionist are the same.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Post-Zionist of a human flavor might not be, but that is not what you are describing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you have a cold, or cancer even, you don&#039;t suggest that the human physical design is &quot;rotten&quot;. You heal, sometimes giving time, sometimes intervening, NEVER giving up on healing though.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I derive a different lesson from Lessing, her work and her life.</p>
<p>That is that the POLITICAL approach, rather than ethical and deep (she adopted Sufism as a life-way) is rejected.</p>
<p>You are more repeating Ronald Reagon in your &quot;insights&quot; about &quot;something wrong in Denmark&quot; than Doris Lessing.</p>
<p>There is something wrong in Israel, and in Palestine, and among activists.</p>
<p>That is to see others through prejudicial eyes, politically oriented.</p>
<p>In that light Zionist, anti-Zionist are the same.</p>
<p>Post-Zionist of a human flavor might not be, but that is not what you are describing.</p>
<p>If you have a cold, or cancer even, you don&#39;t suggest that the human physical design is &quot;rotten&quot;. You heal, sometimes giving time, sometimes intervening, NEVER giving up on healing though.</p>
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		<title>By: the Sword of Gideon</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50623</link>
		<dc:creator>the Sword of Gideon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50623</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A presidential debate, the financial system hanging by a thread. The president of Iran, fun guy that he is, being genuflected to by a bunch of left wing churches. And this is the best you can come up with. BORING....................&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A presidential debate, the financial system hanging by a thread. The president of Iran, fun guy that he is, being genuflected to by a bunch of left wing churches. And this is the best you can come up with. BORING&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Easton - Bensonhurst, Brooklyn</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50624</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Easton - Bensonhurst, Brooklyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50624</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have to agree with Witty here. Civilization is the Original Sin. Civilization as we know it has run its course, and Civil Politics can never improve it. Something radically new is required.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe we should look to the Palestinians to take the lead, because on the whole they have not abandoned a positive religious outlook.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&#039;Civilization is the Original Sin.&#039; That is the root insight, but I&#039;m afraid it is stated too concicely to get across. I expounded at some length here on this once, but only one person took it seriously and I gave up. I dont have time to go through it again.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Witty here. Civilization is the Original Sin. Civilization as we know it has run its course, and Civil Politics can never improve it. Something radically new is required.</p>
<p>Maybe we should look to the Palestinians to take the lead, because on the whole they have not abandoned a positive religious outlook.</p>
<p>&#39;Civilization is the Original Sin.&#39; That is the root insight, but I&#39;m afraid it is stated too concicely to get across. I expounded at some length here on this once, but only one person took it seriously and I gave up. I dont have time to go through it again.</p>
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		<title>By: MM</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50625</link>
		<dc:creator>MM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50625</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Still addicted to zionism, Rich?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hope you get help with that.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Your old friend Phil might be a terrific counselor, if only you could trust him.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still addicted to zionism, Rich?</p>
<p>Hope you get help with that.</p>
<p>Your old friend Phil might be a terrific counselor, if only you could trust him.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Haygood</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50626</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Haygood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50626</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oof ... the quoted passage from Doris Lessing has something in common with Ayn Rand, does it not, despite treating a different pole of the political spectrum? A little dry, a little didactic, a little prolix.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is there any sex in The Golden Notebook? ;-)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Nevertheless, hooking into the human need for a story line is a powerful technique. It&#039;s used all through religious scriptures, for instance.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When are we gonna do the great anti-zionist screenplay, Phil? We&#039;ll be the Ben Hechts of the counterrevolution. Need some killer tunes for the soundtrack, oh yeah ...&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oof &#8230; the quoted passage from Doris Lessing has something in common with Ayn Rand, does it not, despite treating a different pole of the political spectrum? A little dry, a little didactic, a little prolix.</p>
<p>Is there any sex in The Golden Notebook? ;-)</p>
<p>Nevertheless, hooking into the human need for a story line is a powerful technique. It&#39;s used all through religious scriptures, for instance.</p>
<p>When are we gonna do the great anti-zionist screenplay, Phil? We&#39;ll be the Ben Hechts of the counterrevolution. Need some killer tunes for the soundtrack, oh yeah &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MM</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50627</link>
		<dc:creator>MM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50627</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Let&#039;s sketch out the storyline here, Jim...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It begins back in the 1950s in a big city on the east coast... could be any of &#039;em... how about, I dunno, Baltimore?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Two Jewish boys, the protagonist and his close friend, raised in the aftermath of WWII, come of age during Vietnam.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[There&#039;s your sex, drugs, and great music.]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Revolutionary dreams fade as the Establishment diversifies and the Cold War dominates the political scene for the next decade plus.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When the U.S. invades Iraq for the second time, leading to deaths of over a million Arab Muslims, the protagonist begins questioning some of the assumptions that inculcated his early worldview.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He and his childhood friend start to grow apart, the friend implying that to examine the comfortable ideology of zionism is to imperil and betray their tribe.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The protagonist courageously rejects the accusations while continuing to investigate the cause of the invasion. The friend obsessively follows the investigation, chastising him every step of the way.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Finally, the protagonist is vindicated as the greater public becomes more aware of the situation in their country. An inquiry into the values of zionism begins to shed light on the cycle of violence in the Middle East and America&#039;s terrible relations with that region of the world.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In the last scene, the protagonist receives a phone call from the redeemed New York Times. They want him to become a regular columnist.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The old friend cancels his subscription.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The end.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#39;s sketch out the storyline here, Jim&#8230;</p>
<p>It begins back in the 1950s in a big city on the east coast&#8230; could be any of &#39;em&#8230; how about, I dunno, Baltimore?</p>
<p>Two Jewish boys, the protagonist and his close friend, raised in the aftermath of WWII, come of age during Vietnam.</p>
<p>[There&#39;s your sex, drugs, and great music.]</p>
<p>Revolutionary dreams fade as the Establishment diversifies and the Cold War dominates the political scene for the next decade plus.</p>
<p>When the U.S. invades Iraq for the second time, leading to deaths of over a million Arab Muslims, the protagonist begins questioning some of the assumptions that inculcated his early worldview.</p>
<p>He and his childhood friend start to grow apart, the friend implying that to examine the comfortable ideology of zionism is to imperil and betray their tribe.</p>
<p>The protagonist courageously rejects the accusations while continuing to investigate the cause of the invasion. The friend obsessively follows the investigation, chastising him every step of the way.</p>
<p>Finally, the protagonist is vindicated as the greater public becomes more aware of the situation in their country. An inquiry into the values of zionism begins to shed light on the cycle of violence in the Middle East and America&#39;s terrible relations with that region of the world.</p>
<p>In the last scene, the protagonist receives a phone call from the redeemed New York Times. They want him to become a regular columnist.</p>
<p>The old friend cancels his subscription.</p>
<p>The end.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50628</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50628</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Weiss wrote: &quot;One other thing Lessing [Communism] reminds me of. Dual loyalty. The way that people overseas can be loyal and beholden to an ideal long after the people who actually have to live with that ideal have lost their faith.&quot; &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But hasn&#039;t diaspora Judaism evolved as subversive, be it Jewish Bolsheviks plotting the overthrow of the Czar or Jewish Neocons plotting the overthrow of first the Dems, then the GOP, then Iraq?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That doesn&#039;t mean all Jews were participatory, or even interested, but the nature of certain components of diaspora Judaism (indoctrinated? feelings of alienation, outsider status, a culture of festering resentment and nursed grudges, hyper ambition) made/make it the perfect vessel for subversion, destruction and overthrow. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Even the way it is organized (shtetels as cells) and the secretive way it has operated (or has been forced to operate by the majority) make it conducive to subversion.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;(The Neocons, by the way, have deconstructed the organizational structure and mentality of another Abrahamic religion, Islam, similarly.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The question is, who will overthrow the overthrowers? Left-liberals are too unprincipled, decadent, naive, narcissistic, politically correct and weak, and the traditional anti-Communist conservatives have been corrupted by money worship and their own brand of “Christian” Zionist subversion. Ironic, isn’t it? What happens to a society when the &quot;authorities&quot; become subversives? $700 billion Wall Street bailouts?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weiss wrote: &quot;One other thing Lessing [Communism] reminds me of. Dual loyalty. The way that people overseas can be loyal and beholden to an ideal long after the people who actually have to live with that ideal have lost their faith.&quot; </p>
<p>But hasn&#39;t diaspora Judaism evolved as subversive, be it Jewish Bolsheviks plotting the overthrow of the Czar or Jewish Neocons plotting the overthrow of first the Dems, then the GOP, then Iraq?</p>
<p>That doesn&#39;t mean all Jews were participatory, or even interested, but the nature of certain components of diaspora Judaism (indoctrinated? feelings of alienation, outsider status, a culture of festering resentment and nursed grudges, hyper ambition) made/make it the perfect vessel for subversion, destruction and overthrow. </p>
<p>Even the way it is organized (shtetels as cells) and the secretive way it has operated (or has been forced to operate by the majority) make it conducive to subversion.</p>
<p>(The Neocons, by the way, have deconstructed the organizational structure and mentality of another Abrahamic religion, Islam, similarly.)</p>
<p>The question is, who will overthrow the overthrowers? Left-liberals are too unprincipled, decadent, naive, narcissistic, politically correct and weak, and the traditional anti-Communist conservatives have been corrupted by money worship and their own brand of “Christian” Zionist subversion. Ironic, isn’t it? What happens to a society when the &quot;authorities&quot; become subversives? $700 billion Wall Street bailouts?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Haygood</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50629</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Haygood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50629</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Brilliant, Doctor MM. Simply brilliant!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But my prejudices compel me to humbly propose for your consideration, an alternative denouement:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;------------&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In the last scene, the protagonist receives a phone call from the redeemed New York Times. They want him to become a regular columnist.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He accedes, going head-to-head with his neocon nemesis in a dramatic front-page confrontation, which is syndicated nationwide.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Then his first paycheck bounces, and the bankrupt Slimes is sold to Murdoch.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Walking slump-shouldered down the bleak, trash-strewn sidewalks of Eighth Avenue, he espies his estranged boyhood friend approaching. Unwittingly quoting Hank Williams, he cries &quot;YOU WIN AGAIN.&quot; The &#039;friend&#039; tips his black fedora and strides on past, a sardonic smile curling his lips.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;THE END&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant, Doctor MM. Simply brilliant!</p>
<p>But my prejudices compel me to humbly propose for your consideration, an alternative denouement:</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>In the last scene, the protagonist receives a phone call from the redeemed New York Times. They want him to become a regular columnist.</p>
<p>He accedes, going head-to-head with his neocon nemesis in a dramatic front-page confrontation, which is syndicated nationwide.</p>
<p>Then his first paycheck bounces, and the bankrupt Slimes is sold to Murdoch.</p>
<p>Walking slump-shouldered down the bleak, trash-strewn sidewalks of Eighth Avenue, he espies his estranged boyhood friend approaching. Unwittingly quoting Hank Williams, he cries &quot;YOU WIN AGAIN.&quot; The &#39;friend&#39; tips his black fedora and strides on past, a sardonic smile curling his lips.</p>
<p>THE END</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Easton - Bensonhurst, Brooklyn</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2008/09/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html/comment-page-1#comment-50630</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Easton - Bensonhurst, Brooklyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/27/doris-lessing-on-zionism-er-communism.html#comment-50630</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What a crock of shit. Where is the Sex? Where is the Violence? Would *you* pay money for this boring drivel?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I qoute myself.&quot;People dont want to watch Phil. They want to watch Porn.&quot; Thank God.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a crock of shit. Where is the Sex? Where is the Violence? Would *you* pay money for this boring drivel?</p>
<p>I qoute myself.&quot;People dont want to watch Phil. They want to watch Porn.&quot; Thank God.</p>
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