Muhammad Idrees Ahmad writes:
I must take issue with your generalizations about women's place in Islamic societies. First of all, it rings a little hollow coming from the citizen of a country where a woman's mere running for high office is considered an achievement. At least four Muslim states -- Turkey, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia -- have been headed by women. The Iranian parliament often has a higher representation of women in its chamber than its British counterpart.
I must take issue with your generalizations about women's place in Islamic societies. First of all, it rings a little hollow coming from the citizen of a country where a woman's mere running for high office is considered an achievement. At least four Muslim states -- Turkey, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia -- have been headed by women. The Iranian parliament often has a higher representation of women in its chamber than its British counterpart.
The educational attainments of women in most these countries are higher than males. In Pakistan a higher number of women are enrolled in educational institutions compared to men.
I grew up in Peshawar -- Taliban country -- and yet all four of my sisters had no trouble getting master's degrees. My sister was the first District Education Officer and another is now a professor at the city's frist women's university (first women's university not because there were none for women prior to that, there already existed the coed Peshawar university where I studied. Remember -- as Karen Armstrong has pointed out -- fundamentalism is a very modern phenomenon). My mom went to a school dressed as a boy back in the '50s. I had female friends in Peshawar who were so well read that in UK only on rare occasions have I met any who have shown similar erudition.
I grew up in Peshawar -- Taliban country -- and yet all four of my sisters had no trouble getting master's degrees. My sister was the first District Education Officer and another is now a professor at the city's frist women's university (first women's university not because there were none for women prior to that, there already existed the coed Peshawar university where I studied. Remember -- as Karen Armstrong has pointed out -- fundamentalism is a very modern phenomenon). My mom went to a school dressed as a boy back in the '50s. I had female friends in Peshawar who were so well read that in UK only on rare occasions have I met any who have shown similar erudition.
That is not to say things are all hunky dory for women. There are
still many traditions that are morally repugnant. Most of them
practiced, incidentally, in precisely the regions where the
government's investment in educational and social infrastructure has
been minimum. You are equating poverty and a lack of resources with
backwardness.
Like you, however, I can't stand Bernard-Henri Levy. He's mostly a
philosopher-by-association. His only claim at philosophy is having once
known Sartre. Norman Finkelstein put it best: what the rest of the world knows as a charlatan, in France they call a philosopher.
[Weiss: Idrees, You cite four Muslim societies. In two Arab ones I spent time in, Morocco and Syria, it did not seem to me that women had a large place in public life. That included a New Year's party at a restaurant I went to in Palmyra, no women at all. And cafe and street life struck me as overwhelmingly masculine in a way that I found grinding. When I brought up women's rights with a Tunisian Arab friend at a restaurant in Damascus, she held up her hand. Let's talk about this later, in private. What should I conclude?]
[Weiss: Idrees, You cite four Muslim societies. In two Arab ones I spent time in, Morocco and Syria, it did not seem to me that women had a large place in public life. That included a New Year's party at a restaurant I went to in Palmyra, no women at all. And cafe and street life struck me as overwhelmingly masculine in a way that I found grinding. When I brought up women's rights with a Tunisian Arab friend at a restaurant in Damascus, she held up her hand. Let's talk about this later, in private. What should I conclude?]
" His only claim at philosophy is having once known Sartre."
Nice try, Muhammed. He has a philosophy degree from Ecole Normale Superior (ENS). Sure, it's not the Peshwar Advabced College of Goat Fucking (or wherever your sisters went), but it is, by far, the most competitive university in Europe. His teachers, Jacques Derrida and Louis Althusser, both regarded him as the most brilliant student they'd ever encountered.
Hey
I am into my 3rd year of jewess fucking in NYU.
Let me tell you something: I miss my goats!
I'm disappointed, Phil, in your move from what may be a perfectly legitimate personal observation to a blanket generalization about a pretty wide swathe of the world.
It reminds me of once when a middle-class, educated Czech woman, a friend of a friend, was my charge to take around NY to show her the sights. I noticed that she arrived in a cab, from a route that would have been subwayable. I asked if she'd taken the subway yet, but she recoiled in horror, saying that she rode it once but was terrified as she was the only white person on the train. I scoffed not only at her racism, but also at the claim – I told her that was ridiculous. The next time I rode the subway I noticed that indeed the entire car was filled with people of color — on that occasion. What I'm saying is that observation of fact, linked to a bit of a tendency to judge (i.e. terror at being the only white person somewhere, as if that's an issue in NY) can lead to wide generalizations. You were in Syria, whereever, you spent a day or two getting an impression. But that's no basis for blanket claims about Muslims or Arabs, etc.
Paul:
"Sure, it's not the Peshwar Advabced College of Goat Fucking (or wherever your sisters went)…"
Wow! That's western hypocrisy for you! If a woman doesn't have a degree she is an idiot… But if she gets one and isn't from a western country she is branded an alumni of some goat f***ing school…
Hmm… I may be jumping to conclusions here, but I would have to guess that you don't have a masters degree or, otherwise, got one from a real goat-f***ing academy, otherwise your argument would not reap of foul mouthed idiotic bile such as this…
For Muhammad Idrees Ahmad:
A lot of women in and around Asia and the Middle East are getting a good education, however most often than not this doesn't do a lot for them. What I am talking about is the fact that they are still bound by patriarchal rules and only given these "positions" and "education" out of a need to seem "politically correct" or for the country to have a higher amount of eligible workforce for their "foreign investors".
And I speak out of knowledge. Spent time in indonesia during the reformation years when Megawati became the first woman president of indonesia (she was never voted in, she became president because her predecessor was gained unfit to be president, and consequently lost the next election) and also know quite a lot of the "women" in government positions (the silliest being the "minister of womans affairs"… do women really need a whole department to take care of their needs??? Are they that soft??? And what does she do? She talks about meetings with mothers… Hasn't done a whole lot and the ministry is now disbanded… Thank God!)
This is the problem that is prevalent in asia and the middle east, access to education has been opened up very well for women, but other than that there's a lot left to be desired (career: ministry of womens affairs?).
My next question would be, after gaining their masters degree what did your sisters do? Are they working in their field of expertise? Starting their own businesses? I hope they are.
M.