Jack Ross Takes on Ralph Seliger’s Claim Re Binationalist Zionists

You need to learn to read Phil.

Did you understand that there was a dialog between multiple applications of Zionism in the different phases of the Yishuv?

Did you also not understand the word "MAYBE" in Ralph's post?

"The Jews did not come to Palestine as conquerors but as refugees seeking a home. I know that the Arabs thought of them as a threat, but if their response had been peaceful rather than the pogroms of 1920, '21, '29, and the rebellion of '36-'39, and if they had not made the British close the doors of Palestine in 1939 — just when the Jews were especially desperate for refuge — maybe "my" ideological Zionist forebears (who were bi-nationalists) might have prevailed in the Yishuv to forge a better, common future for both peoples. "

Why are you so belligerent about this?

In fact there was Zionist support for a bi-national state before Biltmore. Ben Gurion and others supported the so-called "Peel Partition Plan" of 1937 (and were discussing "population transfer"–i.e., ethnic cleansing a la Smyrna 1923). Ben Gurion made statements that indicate this was a tactical move on his part and he saw this as only a first step. Acceptance of partition would move beyond the careful ambiguity of the Balfour declaration to an actual Jewish State which he expected to expand in time. In this context Jabotinsky's "Iron Wall" clarifies the silly notion that if only the Arabs had been more accommodating things would have worked out differently. Anyone who thinks Zionism can really be liberal or progressive should re-read Jabotinsky.

Richard, Citations are appropriate when making statements that are not common knowledge. Ben Gurion's actual quote and it's context would be called for but I don't have the time to hunt it down now…

This is Ben-Gurion commenting on Partition Scheme proposed by British in 1930s:

"The Jewish State now being offered to us is not the Zionist objective. Within this are it is not possible to solve the Jewish question. But it can serve as a decisive stage along the path to greater Zionist implementation. It will consolidate in Palestine, within the shortest possible time, the real Jewish force which will lead us to our historic goal."

In his private correspondence to his son, Ben-Gurion was more explicit:

(the Jewish State would have) "an outstanding army – I have no doubt that our army will be among the world's outstanding – and so I am certain that we won't be constrained from settling in the rest of the country, whether out of accord and the mutual understanding with the Arab neighbours, or otherwise."

The context can be glimpsed in Yosef Gorny's and Chaya Galai's "Zionism at the Arabs, 1882-1948: a study of Ideology". Hardcover at Amazon.co.uk at £56.

I don't think that there ever was a discussion mentioned, in which Ben-Gurion took part, of demilitarized Israel, so no, I absolutely do not believe that the above quotes can be interpreted as calling for anything but expansion of Zion, and I am surprised that you could entertain such an interpretation.

In 1938 Ben-Gurion wrote:
"After we become a strong force, after the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine".

More insight into whether or not the early Zionists intended to live side by side with the Arab population–

"We should try to spirit the penniless Arab population across the borders by procuring employment for it in transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." (Theodore Herzl, 1895)

"There can be only one national home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equity in the partnership between the Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the (Jewish) race are sufficiently increased." (Zionist Commission in Jerusalem, 1921)

"A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. … Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands to fall by the question of armed force." (Jabotinsky, 1923)

"Thus we conclude that we cannot promise anything to the Arabs of the land of Israel or the Arab countries. Their voluntary agreement is out of the question. Zionist colonization even the most restricted, must either be terminated or carried out in defiance of the will of the native population." (Jabotinsky, 1923)

"We will offer to Iraq ten million pounds to transfer one hundred thousand Arab families from Palestine to Iraq." (Ben Gurion's diary, 10 December 1938)

"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We will not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighbouring countries. All of them." (Joseph Weitz, Head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department, 1940)

"… the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish … with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent." (Joseph Weitz, 1940)

"During the last 100 years our people have been in a process of building up the country and the nation, of expansion, of getting additional Jews and additional settlements in order to expand the borders here. Let no Jew say that the process has ended. Let no Jew say that we are near the end of the road." (Moshe Dyan, 1968)

I'd just like to remind everybody that we are just addressing Seliger's claim that the EARLIEST Zionists intended to share the land. There is no longer any real dispute that by 1947-48 the goal was ethnic cleansing.