The neocon ascension is causing soul-searching at last within the Jewish community. A year after Yivo had an event to kill the messenger (a critical response to Walt and Mearsheimer), progressive Jews are doing what we must do and having an event at Central Synagogue in New York on November 23 to heal America and the Jewish community in the wake of Iraq–"a daylong call to conscience." Rabbi Ellen Lippmann, M.J. Rosenberg, Katrina vanden Heuvel, Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Amy Goodman. Great. I recommend the following text for daylong commentary: Six years ago a close relative of mine said, "Philip, what do you think of this war? I demonstrated against the Vietnam War, but my Jewish newspaper says this could be good for Israel."
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When I was a kid they worried about Good for the Jews but now its Good for Israel. Like the Hornytoad TShirt I got that shows the Ape devolving into the Hornytoad.
That's really funny because Israel hadn't seen Iraq as a strategic threat since 1981 when we bombed their nuclear plant at Osirak (I'm sure that ended up saving countless lives- including Americans who didn't have to fight a nuclear Iraq in 2 wars).
Walt/Mearsheimer were not the messengers of opposition to the war. They brought other messages.
You've also run your brother's comments here maybe a dozen times.
Lots of people lie or aggressively advocate for their positions, stating "its good for you".
There are two questions stimulated:
1. Is it true?
2. So what?
You've stated that the "so what?" question is the only one that you consider relevant.
I consider them both.
"Philip, what do you think of this war? I demonstrated against the Vietnam War, but my Jewish newspaper says this could be good for Israel."
Now that's a free-thinker! Tell me once more who the rubes are.
I'd love to be in the room where this soul-searching takes place.
"Six years ago a close relative of mine said, "Philip, what do you think of this war? I demonstrated against the Vietnam War, but my Jewish newspaper says this could be good for Israel."
Any questions? It is not Israel that is the main problem. It's the Jews in America that support Israel that make it a problem.
If not for them we would be treating Israel like any other country that is an irritation to the US.
"American",
Guess again:
A Six-Day War: Its Aftermath in American Public Opinion
For 40 years, public opinion has consistently favored Israel over the Palestinians
====
THE NEW ISRAEL AND THE OLD
WHY GENTILE AMERICANS BACK THE JEWISH STATE
A Gallup poll in June 1948 showed that almost three times as many Americans "sympathized with the Jews" as "sympathized with the Arabs." That support was no flash in the pan. Widespread gentile support for Israel is one of the most potent political forces in U.S. foreign policy, and in the last 60 years, there has never been a Gallup poll showing more Americans sympathizing with the Arabs or the Palestinians than with the Israelis.
===========
ISRAEL IS NOW AMERICA'S CLOSEST ALLY
Isn't that great? :-)
And Jews don't understand anti-semitism. Huh? Wake up, what you call anti-semitism is gentile anger at this attitude, " my newpaper says it's good for Israel". And that attitude is supported by lies about their real agenda and extraordinary power, power through influencing our politics and influencing( some might say 'controlling') our press. I have never read any Jew grappling with the issues of gentile resentment. I would like to see that happen. If you keep resisting it, trying to quash it, it keeps increasing. Wake up for God's sake. Stop the self-centered paranoia and see there are real issues at stake. And I really really hate to say this, but the strides Jews and gentiles have made over 50 years in accepting one another, this process is threatened. More and more gentiles are muttering to each other. No one wants this alienation, not at all.
Doesn't this knock the pins out from under the Phil Weiss premise. There in all its glory, liberal Jews dong what he has been agitating for, a little self flagellation in its classic sense. Free from the Zion-nazi jackboot. Try this in a mosque by the way and see where that gets you. But anyway, knock yourself out.
The question "Is it good for the Jews?" originated in the context of threat. Now it exists in the context "Is it good for the Jews' maintaining their position in the American establishment?" I can't imagine what Amy Goodman will be doing there along with MoveOn?!), but I hope she will be suggesting that it's not all about us.
If these folks would like to do something constructive, maybe consider how far they would have to get away from the centers of power–where their identity as Jews is inflated by the relation between the U.S. and Israel, and the kind of Jewish-Gentile insider nonsense that Phil talks about–for them to understand that in the common American world of struggle, being Jewish holds little significance. Even asking the question "What's right for the Jews?," or "What's moral for the Jews?" is evading responsiblity.
The Jewish establishment from all aspects of Jewish religious and secular culture in this country supported the invasion of Iraq. The affiliated Jewish mob kept quiet, afraid to associate with antiwar groups who also talked about Palestine, and the warnings about this from the establishment were clear. Now the establishment, and I mean the liberal establishment–guys like Saperstein–are trying to cover their tushes.
We sure know how to entertain ourselves.
It's not about us.
It's not about us.
It's not about us.
How about, is it good for everyone else?