This is so upside down it's almost funny, though I can understand why Saif might not be terribly amused. A 'sovereign' state, eh? Sovereign over land stolen from 'his people', who not unnaturally tried to stop the invading thieves. How quixotic of them, to try and destroy a force that was destroying them! Those Arabs! They're not like us, are they?

You'd be an amusing pest Ralph if you squawked away in Speaker's Corner with a few like-minded souls, where you belong with your sincerely held prejudices. But you operate in an environment where you are simply one of thousands of likeminded souls, busy busy busy working away for the ideal, the Project, the tribe. Buried deep in every sector, a gun in every crenellation (never again!), ready to do battle with the sort of garden variety common sense and pleas for fairness Saif shows here, and which you and your cadre have managed to eliminate from the national discourse.

'It's not true that the peace process of the '90s was a total failure; it was literally murdered by enemies of peace before it could reach its hoped-for conclusion.'

Their names were Ross, Indyk, Barak, Wurmser, Feith.. there's not enough bandwidth here for all of them.

Yes, and there never was a country called 'Israel' either. Your point?

Zionism must make the blood run away from those areas of your brain where hypocrisy is detected, and where shame resides.

Yet, presumably, he see no problem in allowing kids from Miami or New Jersey to move to the country, just because their mothers are jewish.

I am fascinated by his ability to square this moral incongruity.

"Mounting operations against enemy population centers located inside or near our defensive system in order to prevent them from being used as bases by an active armed force. These operations can be divided into the following categories:

- Destruction of villages (setting fire to, blowing up, and planting mines in the debris), especially those population centers which are difficult to control continuously.

- Mounting search and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village and conducting a search inside it. In the event of resistance, the. armed force must be destroyed and the population must be expelled outside the borders of the state."

http://www.mideastweb.org/pland.htm

Of course, Pappe treats the subject at length.

I doubt Selinger will listen to me, but I would really like to see how he incorporates such an apprently transparent effort to ethnically cleanse the country with his position that these people should not be allowed to return. Phil, give him a nudge? Specifically — what are his views on Plan D?

I'm okay with that…
as long as all Jews less than 2,000 years old vacate the premisis immediately.

PM

According to both Benny Morris and Meron Benvenisti, Plan D was a defensive strategy concerning what to do in the face of the expected multi-pronged attack on Israel, which in fact happened when Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948. It was designed to clear out Arab centers of resistance flanking Jewish lines once the Arab armies attacked along a variety of fronts.

Plan-D was defensive because many Arab hillside villages were bases for attack on the roads leading to Jerusalem and other population centers. Jerusalem was under siege with 100,000 Jews on the verge of starvation. Implementing Plan-D involved very cruel military actions, even crimes, but it relieved the siege of Jerusalem and broke the back of the Palestinian irregular forces in time for Israel to contend with the four regular Arab armies (Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi and the Trans-jordanian Arab Legion) that attacked from the outside.

War is not pretty. Does Sam have anything to say about the major instances of ethnic cleansing by the Arab forces which captured the Old City of Jerusalem and the Etzion Bloc to the east?

Look, instead of reciting someone else's analysis, why don't you look at the text yourself? To wit:

- Destruction of villages (setting fire to, blowing up, and planting mines in the debris), especially those population centers which are difficult to control continuously.

- Mounting search and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village and conducting a search inside it. In the event of resistance, the. armed force must be destroyed and the population must be expelled outside the borders of the state."

This directive came from Ben Gurion's office. It says that populations must be expelled from the borders of the state. How can you with a straight face say that this is not a directive for ethnic cleansing?

Instead you rely on the analysis of an present-day advocate for ethnic cleansing (Morris.)

In passing, though, what military purpose does destroying villages and booby trapping the rubble serve?

Peace will never come to the region unless past wrongdoings are acknowledged, contrition is shown, and forgiveness sought. It appears we have a long way to go.

>> Does Sam have anything to say about the major instances of ethnic cleansing by the Arab forces which captured the Old City of Jerusalem and the Etzion Bloc to the east?

Anybody who was expelled from their homes as a result of the war should be allowed to return, as is consistent with international law. Is Selinger with me or not?

"[Plan Dalet] constituted a strategic-doctrinal and carte blanche for expulsions [from villages that resisted or might threaten the Yishuv] by front, brigade, district and battalion commanders (who in each case argued military necessity) and it gave commanders, post facto, formal, persuasive cover for their actions."

Plan Dalet also stated:

"Mounting operations against enemy population centers located inside or near our defensive system in order to prevent them from being used as bases by an active armed force. These operations can be divided into the following categories:

Destruction of villages (setting fire to, blowing up, and planting mines in the debris), especially those population centers which are difficult to control continuously.

Mounting search and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village and conducting a search inside it. In the event of resistance, the. armed force must be destroyed and the population must be expelled outside the borders of the state."

Interpretation is pretty much in the eye of the beholder. But labeling "defensive" does not absolve anyone nor should it have been a blank cheque to maintain the territories it took control over and then named the current boundaries of the new state of Israel.

War may not be pretty but with this shocking precedent, you are given weight to many Palestinians who aim to destroy Israel to gain back what they lost. After all, they have been under siege for decades. It can be interpreted as defensive too.