Comments on: Avrum Burg’s ‘Holocaust Is Over’ Book Due Out Here in 3 Weeks http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:08:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Glenn Condell http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49814 Glenn Condell Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49814 <p>'What a great man'</p> <p>I remember having a similar reaction to a Haaretz editorial of his a few years ago. He is a great man; so is Uri Avnery. Amira Hass is a great woman. Gideon Levy, Neve Gordon, Sternhell... there are lots of them, but like America, Israel can't ever seem to place any of them within a bull's roar of the sort of power that could compel change. </p> <p>It's a good sign that such a prominent Israeli can publicly diagnose the pathologies of Zionism. It joins other recent positives - Olmert's regrets, the schoolgirl resisters, some settlers' outspoken support of the Palestinians their brothers oppress, etc.</p> <p>But the settlements and the oppression continue; in fact they are trending upward too, perhaps in response to the increasingly likely prospect that a weakened US will not be able to drive the ME according to Israeli priorities for much longer. </p> 'What a great man'

I remember having a similar reaction to a Haaretz editorial of his a few years ago. He is a great man; so is Uri Avnery. Amira Hass is a great woman. Gideon Levy, Neve Gordon, Sternhell… there are lots of them, but like America, Israel can't ever seem to place any of them within a bull's roar of the sort of power that could compel change.

It's a good sign that such a prominent Israeli can publicly diagnose the pathologies of Zionism. It joins other recent positives – Olmert's regrets, the schoolgirl resisters, some settlers' outspoken support of the Palestinians their brothers oppress, etc.

But the settlements and the oppression continue; in fact they are trending upward too, perhaps in response to the increasingly likely prospect that a weakened US will not be able to drive the ME according to Israeli priorities for much longer.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49815 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49815 <p>"And this explains destroying Lebanon when two soldiers are catpured"</p> <p>4 were killed prior to the 2 captured, and Hezbollah shelled Israeli towns before and after.</p> <p><br /> The criticism of the Knesset report of the Lebanon effort was that because it was unfocused and unplanned (in spite of the accusations by dissenters that it had been planned for a year), its scope extended beyond any rational military mission.</p> <p>Accurate summary is more useful than rhetorical.</p> <p><br /> Avraham Burg has used the term "never again", so the question is one of degree. </p> <p>How far?</p> <p>An important question. But not a black/white one, and one that INCLUDES Israeli welfare and safety in its math.</p> "And this explains destroying Lebanon when two soldiers are catpured"

4 were killed prior to the 2 captured, and Hezbollah shelled Israeli towns before and after.

The criticism of the Knesset report of the Lebanon effort was that because it was unfocused and unplanned (in spite of the accusations by dissenters that it had been planned for a year), its scope extended beyond any rational military mission.

Accurate summary is more useful than rhetorical.

Avraham Burg has used the term "never again", so the question is one of degree.

How far?

An important question. But not a black/white one, and one that INCLUDES Israeli welfare and safety in its math.

]]> By: Richard Silverstein http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49816 Richard Silverstein Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49816 <p>"Beautiful title, huh?"</p> <p>Not as beautiful as the original Hebrew title (which I don't think was used, for obvious reasons): "Hitler Won." Now THAT is an amazing & incendiary title.</p> "Beautiful title, huh?"

Not as beautiful as the original Hebrew title (which I don't think was used, for obvious reasons): "Hitler Won." Now THAT is an amazing & incendiary title.

]]> By: the Sword of Gideon http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49817 the Sword of Gideon Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49817 <p>Ah, the bard of Seattle is heard from again. Perhaps Samir Kuntar could pay a visit to you and your family. You could discuss the middle east with him.</p> Ah, the bard of Seattle is heard from again. Perhaps Samir Kuntar could pay a visit to you and your family. You could discuss the middle east with him.

]]> By: LeaNder http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49818 LeaNder Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49818 <p>Since both, Richard Silverstein and Phil Weiss are the most prominent bloggers on the topic they should be assigned assigned reviews.</p> <p>Should we hold our breath, Swordie?</p> Since both, Richard Silverstein and Phil Weiss are the most prominent bloggers on the topic they should be assigned assigned reviews.

Should we hold our breath, Swordie?

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49819 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49819 <p>So, <br /> Phil, Richard S, Sword,</p> <p>What did you learn on Yom Kippur?</p> So,
Phil, Richard S, Sword,

What did you learn on Yom Kippur?

]]> By: anon http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49820 anon Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49820 <p>So, Witty, what did you learn on Yom Kippur? <br /> Did you make verbal confession or vidui? What's the result of your soul-searching and verbal articulation of your misdeeds? What commitment have you made to your future improvement to earn God's forgiveness? </p> So, Witty, what did you learn on Yom Kippur?
Did you make verbal confession or vidui? What's the result of your soul-searching and verbal articulation of your misdeeds? What commitment have you made to your future improvement to earn God's forgiveness?

]]> By: MM http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49821 MM Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49821 <p>What with the credit crunch and the collapse of the political pornographic feature film paper market, I will have to read Burg's book in snippets, as Phil quotes from it over the coming years. Help me out, Phil.</p> <p>I think the new English title though is extremely appropriate in the current American political climate. While W&M tip-toed around and actually pooh-poohed zionism; I have a feeling, based on the interview Haaretz published a while back, that Burg's will be a real conversation.</p> <p><i>Hitler Won</i> would've been a shocking title no doubt... My book on American zionism in the age of corporate consolidation would be called <i>Goebbels Won</i>.</p> What with the credit crunch and the collapse of the political pornographic feature film paper market, I will have to read Burg's book in snippets, as Phil quotes from it over the coming years. Help me out, Phil.

I think the new English title though is extremely appropriate in the current American political climate. While W&M tip-toed around and actually pooh-poohed zionism; I have a feeling, based on the interview Haaretz published a while back, that Burg's will be a real conversation.

Hitler Won would've been a shocking title no doubt… My book on American zionism in the age of corporate consolidation would be called Goebbels Won.

]]> By: John Dickerson http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html/comment-page-1#comment-49822 John Dickerson Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49822 <p>The Israeli invasion of Lebanon was planned between top Israeli officials and members of the Bush administration. On June 17 and 18 [of 2006], former Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Likud Knesset member Natan Sharansky met with Vice President Dick Cheney at the American Enterprise Institute conference in Beaver Creek, Colorado. There, the impending Israeli invasions of both Gaza and Lebanon were discussed. After receiving Cheney's full backing for the invasion of Gaza and Lebanon, Netanyahu flew back to Israel......<br /> SOURCE- http://miami.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/5215.php</p> The Israeli invasion of Lebanon was planned between top Israeli officials and members of the Bush administration. On June 17 and 18 [of 2006], former Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Likud Knesset member Natan Sharansky met with Vice President Dick Cheney at the American Enterprise Institute conference in Beaver Creek, Colorado. There, the impending Israeli invasions of both Gaza and Lebanon were discussed. After receiving Cheney's full backing for the invasion of Gaza and Lebanon, Netanyahu flew back to Israel……
SOURCE- http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/09/avrum-burgs-holocaust-is-over-book-to-come-out-here-in-3-weeks.html#comment-49823 <p>MM: Bingo!</p> MM: Bingo!

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