Comments on: Bacevich, and Spinoza, on the Error of Exceptionalism http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 01:16:47 +0000 hourly 1 By: tainoaz http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-78156 tainoaz Thu, 28 May 2009 07:40:44 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-78156 I am afraid that if there is a GOD... he/she/it is not as petty as most of us are and that no group of 'peoples' can own him/she/it! Love your article and will post on my Facebook page. Religions and Political Groups that use 'Holy Books' crafted and compiled with myriad agendas by patriarchal fraternities in antiquity are KILLING us all fast. This is the key fallacy of those that 'claim' to be the champion stewards of 'Peoples'. Fact is that Neocons care shit about the average American, Osama Bin Laden cares shit about the average Muslim, Fact is Zionist care shit about the average Jew... It is all about mindless agendas and the retention of as much political and economic power in the hands of a few EMOTIONAL RETARDS that can never achieve SATISFACTION of ANY kind!!! SAD! I am afraid that if there is a GOD… he/she/it is not as petty as most of us are and that no group of 'peoples' can own him/she/it! Love your article and will post on my Facebook page. Religions and Political Groups that use 'Holy Books' crafted and compiled with myriad agendas by patriarchal fraternities in antiquity are KILLING us all fast. This is the key fallacy of those that 'claim' to be the champion stewards of 'Peoples'. Fact is that Neocons care shit about the average American, Osama Bin Laden cares shit about the average Muslim, Fact is Zionist care shit about the average Jew… It is all about mindless agendas and the retention of as much political and economic power in the hands of a few EMOTIONAL RETARDS that can never achieve SATISFACTION of ANY kind!!! SAD!

]]> By: Joachim Martillo http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48568 Joachim Martillo Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48568 <p>Slezkine was probably addressing issues of domination more than issues of exceptionalism.</p> <p>The tiny Soviet Ashkenazi elite stood in the same relation to the Communist Party (and the mass of Russian Jews) as the tiny Neocon Jewish Zionist Republican elite stands in relation to the Republican party (and the greater part of American Jewry).</p> <p>Making either anomaly an issue of Jewish exceptionalism (or self-assuredness) instead of an issue of a power grab by a radical Jewish intelligentsia in Russia or by a Zionist intelligentsia backed by Zionist economic oligarchs in the USA turns the threat of tiny subversive cabals attempting to take control of the government into some sort of Jewish existential question.</p> <p>Misdiagnosing the real situation obscured then and obscures today the real danger to the state and to the world in both cases. </p> <p>The subversives (Communist or Zionist Ashkenazi) even work to exacerbate the confusion because they can use it to cover themselves and their real goals by flinging accusations of anti-Semitism.</p> <p><a href="http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2008/10/kristol-and-shikse.html" rel="nofollow">The Magnes Zionist: Kristol and the Shikse</a> discusses some aspects of the real issue of power, perversion and corruption in addition to providing a long possibly relevant excerpt from <a href="http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2007/02/pattern-of-ethnic-ashkenazi.html" rel="nofollow">The Jewish Century</a>.<br /> </p> Slezkine was probably addressing issues of domination more than issues of exceptionalism.

The tiny Soviet Ashkenazi elite stood in the same relation to the Communist Party (and the mass of Russian Jews) as the tiny Neocon Jewish Zionist Republican elite stands in relation to the Republican party (and the greater part of American Jewry).

Making either anomaly an issue of Jewish exceptionalism (or self-assuredness) instead of an issue of a power grab by a radical Jewish intelligentsia in Russia or by a Zionist intelligentsia backed by Zionist economic oligarchs in the USA turns the threat of tiny subversive cabals attempting to take control of the government into some sort of Jewish existential question.

Misdiagnosing the real situation obscured then and obscures today the real danger to the state and to the world in both cases.

The subversives (Communist or Zionist Ashkenazi) even work to exacerbate the confusion because they can use it to cover themselves and their real goals by flinging accusations of anti-Semitism.

The Magnes Zionist: Kristol and the Shikse discusses some aspects of the real issue of power, perversion and corruption in addition to providing a long possibly relevant excerpt from The Jewish Century.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48569 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48569 <p>NONE of the rabbis that I've communicated with, interpreted the "chosen people" to be any reference to any privilege, but entirely to an obligation to serve God, and humanity.</p> <p>The orthodox attempt to derive logically explain as many of the commandments as they are able. But, those that they can't explain, they just do, reasoning "we'll understand why we are instructed so, when it is necessary for us to understand, and if that is never, so be it."</p> <p>NONE of the mitzot (commandments) are harmful, that I'm aware.</p> <p>But, they are instructions, some that makes common human sense, some that separates Jews from assimilation.</p> NONE of the rabbis that I've communicated with, interpreted the "chosen people" to be any reference to any privilege, but entirely to an obligation to serve God, and humanity.

The orthodox attempt to derive logically explain as many of the commandments as they are able. But, those that they can't explain, they just do, reasoning "we'll understand why we are instructed so, when it is necessary for us to understand, and if that is never, so be it."

NONE of the mitzot (commandments) are harmful, that I'm aware.

But, they are instructions, some that makes common human sense, some that separates Jews from assimilation.

]]> By: Joachim Martillo http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48570 Joachim Martillo Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48570 <p>Witty's ignorance of Judaism could fill the Rose Bowl.</p> <p>Sefer haMitzvot of Maimonides (twelfth century) identifies positive commands:</p> <p> * to lend to poor Jews without interest and<br /> * to lend to non-Jews with interest</p> <p>among the 613 commandments on which Jewish law (Halakhah) is based.</p> <p>It does not take much to go from these commandments for members of the Jewish community to work together to exploit non-Jews.</p> Witty's ignorance of Judaism could fill the Rose Bowl.

Sefer haMitzvot of Maimonides (twelfth century) identifies positive commands:

* to lend to poor Jews without interest and
* to lend to non-Jews with interest

among the 613 commandments on which Jewish law (Halakhah) is based.

It does not take much to go from these commandments for members of the Jewish community to work together to exploit non-Jews.

]]> By: Michael Weis http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48571 Michael Weis Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48571 <p>Phil, <br /> You lost the little credibility you had by citing Israel Shahak. You are no journalist. You are just a propaganda spokesperson for antisemites. Too bad it took me that long to realize. You read the same books, you say the same things, you have the same ideas. What do you think your rabbi/mom/co-religionists/judge would think if he saw this blog of yours?</p> Phil,
You lost the little credibility you had by citing Israel Shahak. You are no journalist. You are just a propaganda spokesperson for antisemites. Too bad it took me that long to realize. You read the same books, you say the same things, you have the same ideas. What do you think your rabbi/mom/co-religionists/judge would think if he saw this blog of yours?

]]> By: peters http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48572 peters Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48572 <p>i have decided that the hurling of the anti-semitism threat is the playground equivalent of "i'm going to tell the teacher on you" it's an admission of an inability to argue your points in a coherent fashion. </p> <p> </p> i have decided that the hurling of the anti-semitism threat is the playground equivalent of "i'm going to tell the teacher on you" it's an admission of an inability to argue your points in a coherent fashion.

]]> By: peters http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48573 peters Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48573 <p>and joachim, <br /> you have not even chosen the scariest examples. i did not post here an article about the debate in a man's hebrew school about whether a jewish doctor should save the life of a gentile on the sabbath. i didn't post because of anti-semitism sensitivities. those jews who pretend not to understand anti-semitism are lying to themselves about the attitudes they know are fostered in their own community and family. how can you pretend that the enclosed non-participation in the human race does not engender hatred itself? </p> and joachim,
you have not even chosen the scariest examples. i did not post here an article about the debate in a man's hebrew school about whether a jewish doctor should save the life of a gentile on the sabbath. i didn't post because of anti-semitism sensitivities. those jews who pretend not to understand anti-semitism are lying to themselves about the attitudes they know are fostered in their own community and family. how can you pretend that the enclosed non-participation in the human race does not engender hatred itself?

]]> By: Neocon Whorowitz http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48574 Neocon Whorowitz Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48574 <p>Here is what the Center for Zionist Education says about Jewish ethics & the Jewish view of gentiles:</p> <p><b><a href="http://www.jafi.org.il/education/juice/history1/week8.html" rel="nofollow"> Jewish Ethics: Are They Ethical? Are They Jewish?</a></b><br /> <i>"The development of Jewish ethics reflect concern for both the community and the individual. The fundamental aspect has been the survival of the Jewish people. </i><b>In each of these works it seems that the idea is not to treat non-Jews fairly because they have intrinsic merit but to prevent them from turning against the Jews.</b><i> It is for this reason that what most ethical theories consider to be essential-not stealing, not murdering-could be put aside under certain conditions for the higher goal of Jewish survival. Similarly, commandments which may modern Jews would consider secondary, such as Sabbath observance, are often of primary importance because they are viewed as essential for Jewish survival. Thus there are Jews both in the diaspora and in the State of Israel who feel that the survival of the Jews is the highest value and there are others who feel that the ethical dimension to life is more important then survival itself."</i><br /> </p> Here is what the Center for Zionist Education says about Jewish ethics & the Jewish view of gentiles:

Jewish Ethics: Are They Ethical? Are They Jewish?
"The development of Jewish ethics reflect concern for both the community and the individual. The fundamental aspect has been the survival of the Jewish people. In each of these works it seems that the idea is not to treat non-Jews fairly because they have intrinsic merit but to prevent them from turning against the Jews. It is for this reason that what most ethical theories consider to be essential-not stealing, not murdering-could be put aside under certain conditions for the higher goal of Jewish survival. Similarly, commandments which may modern Jews would consider secondary, such as Sabbath observance, are often of primary importance because they are viewed as essential for Jewish survival. Thus there are Jews both in the diaspora and in the State of Israel who feel that the survival of the Jews is the highest value and there are others who feel that the ethical dimension to life is more important then survival itself."

]]> By: D. http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48575 D. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48575 <p>Anyone just starting to explore the idea of "antisemitism" and the role it plays in Jewish identity would be well off spending a few hours (or months) studying the collection of writings gathered in When Victims Rule. It's not the whole story (nothing ever is) but it does a good job illuminating some of the more problematic aspects of this concept.</p> <p><a href="http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/19antis1.htm" rel="nofollow">The Accusation of Anti-Semitism, Part 1</a><br /> <a href="http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/19antis2.htm" rel="nofollow">The Accusation of Anti-Semitism, Part 2</a></p> <p>(I warn you however that it is rather depressing reading.)</p> Anyone just starting to explore the idea of "antisemitism" and the role it plays in Jewish identity would be well off spending a few hours (or months) studying the collection of writings gathered in When Victims Rule. It's not the whole story (nothing ever is) but it does a good job illuminating some of the more problematic aspects of this concept.

The Accusation of Anti-Semitism, Part 1
The Accusation of Anti-Semitism, Part 2

(I warn you however that it is rather depressing reading.)

]]> By: Michael Weis http://mondoweiss.net/2008/10/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html/comment-page-1#comment-48576 Michael Weis Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/10/27/bacevich-and-spinoza-on-the-error-of-exceptionalism.html#comment-48576 <p>I am talking about the made up stories of Israel Shahak. Nobody here is even trying to prove what he says. </p> I am talking about the made up stories of Israel Shahak. Nobody here is even trying to prove what he says.

]]>