A smart friend of mine who's been around offers the following theory of how Obama's victory (he's already president, folks) might transform American Jewish politics:
Jews are liberals. Most of them are. But a sizable percentage are
Israel-firsters (like that Kunst you quote). Better they should go
with the GOP and stay there, with only real Dems and liberals staying with the Dem party. Let the GOP have to kiss their asses!
Also, a weak Jewish vote for Obama will split the Jewish kids off from
their elders. They might understand, at last, that being an Israel activist, an Israel firster, is antithetical to the approach of the Democratic party and the rest of their generation. It will help them understand that being a liberal and lappingup AIPAC/Birthright propaganda is oxymoronic.
So here's my prayer. An Obama landslide carrying less than 60% of Jews!
Right now the Jewish leadership is monolithic because it can be. No one
takes it on. No one has mentioned AIPAC or the West Bank or Jerusalem
in any of the presidential debates. No debate, no change. The change
must come from the grassroots, and maybe from Jews first. That's the essence of this theory…
"An Obama landslide carrying less than 60% of Jews!"
First, it's not the Jewish vote that matters, but Jewish money and media influence.
Second, I'm wondering how we are ever going to know how the Jewish community votes. From the same kind of surveys that were conducted during the Tom Bradley campaign?
Phil, please don't write "He's already president, folks"! Obama's in a good spot thank goodness — but anything can happen in the next couple weeks. And if people who lean Obama decide, Eh, he'll win, I don't have to vote, or Eh, I don't have to go knock on doors, we're screwed.
I never thought George W. Bush could be re-elected. But it happened. And with all respect your enthusiasm has occasionally overcome your better judgement on this blog (I don't mean that to be harsh — I actually find it charming.) But let's not take anything for granted, and let's bring it on home. Watch this early Zeppelin performance of Bring It On Home if you need inspiration!
link to youtube.com
A stupid analysis.
Obama's positions are determined because they are right, and then expressed in palatable terms, not corollary.
Peace is furthered by confidence, not by threat.
"[Jews] should go with the GOP and stay there, with only real Dems and liberals staying with the Dem party. Let the GOP have to kiss their asses!"
On Japanese TV, there's a new year's eve show in which a "red team" and a "white team" compete with three hours of songs, dances and skits. Suspense builds across Nippon, until just before midnight, one team is declared the winner.
Of course, the network could care less which team wins. Their sole interest is in selling all the advertising spots. So "red team vs. white team" features predictably pepper the celebrity magazines for months before the show.
"[Jews] should go with the GOP and stay there, with only real Dems and liberals staying with the Dem party."
Red team vs. blue team! Your "smart friend" is focusing on the cape, not the matador. Their crony network has cooperated to loot the Treasury of trillions, and he's still rooting for one team in the silly, staged children's variety show called US politics. Poor, lost puppy …
Haygood, you illiterate dog-fucker, it's "couldn't care less."
Phil's friend needs to explain why a two state solution is the only option…
Most people read the situation as one with little hope for Palestinians accepting a truncated Apartheid mini-state..
Why would anyone wish that on them, and why do we absolutely have to have a Jewish state run by Jews for Jews??
sorry but this taboo question keeps rearing its ugly head…reality is a bitch,isn't it
There is no "Jewish only" state. There is a state in Jews are the majority, in which Jews have the sense that they are self-governing, rather than being governed by any of the alternatives there.
The two-state solution is the only option because the two peoples genuinely do NOT think of themselves as one, nor desire to.
And, because the populations are so evenly numbered, a single-state would result in the majority of 51% to 49%, and between oil and water communities.
Nearly certainly, there would be civil conflict, devolving to civil war, and a partition anyway.
Given that, the best that can be done is to find the most benign and democratic means to have two states, rather than impose a single state.
The powers that be can really only assist at that.
And, dissenters can only do so as well.
In the long run, the only way that single-state would be possible would include political emphasis on the civil middle (not the "civil" far left) and on developing cross-cultural relationships (ecology, public health, etc.)
At some point, the two states might decide to associate, but it won't happen by agitation.
Does it really matter which candidates any group favors when McCain and Obama are the choices?
Neither candidate makes much sense on economic issues. How are going to cut spending and government while bailing everyone out, policing the world and expanding government to the point that all needs are taken care of? Is there a computer model of how this will work? Isn't our current financial crisis the result of spending phantom wealth?
It's clear that Obama has been hyped well beyond his actual qualifications, but McCain just appears to be too stupid and out of touch with the people to be a decent president. What was this "Joe the Plumber" crap? McCain is just too stupid to understand how condescending that was. What a dicgrace!
I don't know many plumbers that make $250,000/year.
Obama is capable beyond what you imagine Todd.
A stupid analysis.
Explaining RW: Richard W. objects to the first paragraph, this:
It occurs to me that the best case scenario is that Obama wins and the Jews don't vote for him, or vote for him at the same rate that other whites do. That will free him from AIPAC so he can pursue the two-state solution without caring what they think.>
Paltry Jewish vote is irrelevant in the main; but Jewish influence re MSM, PR, think tank support, AIPAC-guided $$ on all key institutions and elections, is decisive. Of course once Obama actually
gets in office–well, we shall see–Obama's ideological associates from his past, his selection of courses he taught, his backing of
education platforms with a distinct flavor, etc… may be key, though
there is no key Republican who can bring this to bear in a tight package for the voting masses…
On Joe Sixpack, morphed into Joe The Plumber:
According to salary.com , Plumbers make an average of about $44,281 per year.
"Joe the plumber" was about to buy a company that makes more than $250,000 a year.
Something doesn't seem so "average" about this Joe. If he can afford a business that makes over $250,000 he can afford to be taxed.
On the other foot, the unemployment benefits paid to the people Joe has to lay off may make it a losing proposition for all involved, including the government. Obama's Robin Hood tax policies may amount to nothing but reparations in disguise. Steal from the whites and give to the blacks. If so, does so punishing such small businesses for being successful equal killing the goose that lays golden eggs?
"Obama is capable beyond what you imagine Todd."
In what way? What do you think he will be able to do? I like to think that I have a pretty good imagination, so I'm open to your thoughts. But I do believe that there is quite a bit of hype with Obama, and he seems to be a stealth candidate in many ways.
Joe the Plumber reminds me about the plumber and the cardiologist. The cardiologist was watching his reimbursement shrink under managed care, then a big group of internists told him they weren't going to refer any more patients to him, because of an alliance they had signed with another health system. He was sitting at his kitchen table going over his bills, wondering how he was going to make ends meet, when his wife came in and told him there was water in the basement. He called the plumber, who checked it out, then told him he'd found the problem, that he'd have to replace a section of pipe, and would ream out the corrosion from the adjoining pipe, and it would cost $450. "450 dollars," he gasped. "I'm a cardiologist," he said, becoming emotional. "I do the same thing to the plumbing in peoples' hearts, and I don't get $450 any more."
To which the plumber replied, "Neither did I when I was a cardiologist."
Joe the Cardiologist
First, it's not the Jewish vote that matters, but Jewish money and media influence.
That's the first thought that came to my mind. From my understanding, mainstream Jews largely vote along the lines that I find rational (with the possible exception of when relating directly to IP issues though it's not always easy to determine when that is the single issue that takes precedence).
I think the main influence (and disproportionate at that) is clearly a result of the money and the media. I hope the majority of 'rational' voters continue to do so.
Even many liberal Jews who profess to be opposed to the Israel-first mentality are suspect because most of those are liberal internationalists who still hypocritically cling to Jewish nationalism in the diaspora (the nation within a nation) and network with other similar groups of organized Jewry around the globe for specifically Jewish advantage. (To be convincingly opposed to Zionism, one must be an America-firster AND a melting pot assimilationist; as a liberal internationalist, Weiss only meets half the test.) Ideological diaspora Jews have always viewed national boundaries (other than Israel’s constantly shifting ones) as an artificial construct because they see themselves as part of an international Jewish nation destined to rule over humanity to whom boundaries don't apply.
I don’t believe Jews are obligated to give up their Jewish-ethnic-nationalist and Jewish-ethnic-internationalist allegiances. I just believe they ought to disclose them, or be disclosed, so that gentiles can take those allegiances into consideration on all manner of issues that have nothing to do with Jewish-Israeli Zionism (for example, open borders immigration and "free trade," non-allegiance internationalist capitalism and coerced market interventionism, cultural pollution and [gentile] familial cohesiveness, etc).
Zionism, after all, transcends merely the Levant. It is more a state of mind, and won't disappear even if Israel does. Jewish Zionism in Israel is merely the organized Jewish state of mind put into action in an identifiable location. In that respect, it is actually illuminating because gentiles can see the reality, as opposed to the spin and schmooze, of the collective Jewish state of mind in play. And they can see its consequences.
Maybe that’s the real reason many liberal ideological Jews have come to resent Israel: it provides insights into the collective Jewish attitudes and state of mind that they'd prefer gentiles not see.
"cultural pollution"
"international Jewish nation"
"rule over humanity"
spin, schmooze, hypocrisy, suspect
Ed-keywords,
You forgot
"open borders immigration"
"non-allegiance internationalist capitalism"
"coerced market interventionism"
and hostility to "[gentile] familial cohesiveness"
In other words, the agenda of both Neconservatism and Neoliberalism, which, like Zionism, have become shorthand for “organized Jewish chicanery in partnership with corrupt gentile collaborators.”
I wish I had the same dope that Phil and the good Reverend (Jackson) are smoking… Sorry I meant hope, hope–hope that they're stoking. Stoking hope. Stoke the flames of hope; don't smoke the same old dope. Change! Change you can believe in! Change you just gotta believe in, 'cuz like God it ain't really even there.
I don't see any examples of Obama standing up to power on his resume.
It seems like he's never sacrificed his access to power and privilege for anything.
Anything I'm missing?
I know he talks a great game… Eloquence and leadership are two different qualities, and they aren't always found in the same person.
The issue is bigger than zionism, it is the entirety of American history post-WWII, the consolidation of industry, concentration of wealth, addiction to empire. Barry from Harvard knows not to go anywhere near that.
If he undertakes a Manhattan Project for renewable energy, as he's mentioning nowadays, wouldn't it make sense to take a little out of the Pentagon's budget, defund some wars, etc. to pay for it?
Of course not!
A Goldman Sachs-managed bubble is going to pay for Barry's Giant Leap!
Marxism, Leninism, Neoconservatism, Neoliberalism, Great leap Maoism, Zionism: all are based on magical thinking inspired by magical thinkers who don't live in the real world, or want to, nor want to do the hard work of building and sustaining a solid foundation. Solid foundations are so boring and goyish.
Better to create a virtual Disneyland where everyone inside the gates (the Party, the Elite, the Chosen) can form a powerful, self-reinforcing collective hell-bent on sustaining the luxurious dream no matter how many peasants outside the gates must be must be sacrificed to pay for it all.
It looks like Obama has scaled the walls, and is now being warmly embraced inside by all the other traitors to humanity. Why, isn’t that George W. and Bernanke giving him high-fives, with Alan Greenspan and Andrea Mitchell nodding approvingly in the background? And there’s Paulson rushing in with the next banker bailout package for him to sign. Uh-oh, here comes Barney Frank with a devilish gleam in his eye. Gee, aren’t they all such wonderful people?
Note to MM:
Why do racists insist on calling Obama Barry.
It intrigues me.
Why give yourself away?
"The two-state solution is the only option because the two peoples genuinely do NOT think of themselves as one, nor desire to." — Richard Witty
"The mightiest counterpart to the Aryan is represented by the Jew. When one section is still playing the German, Frenchman,or Englishman, the other with open effrontery comes out as the Jewish race. A racially pure people which is conscious of its blood cannever be enslaved by the Jew." — Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Richard and Adolf — staunch opponents of "mixing peoples" and "one-state solutions."
Hope the enforced separation works out better this time than the last go-round!
"Why do racists insist on calling Obama Barry?"
Why did William Jefferson Clinton call hisself "Bill"? Why did James Earl Carter call hisself "Jimmy"? Why did Robert Zimmerman call hisself "Bob Dylan"? Are they racists too?
No, they did it because informal nicknames are a characteristic style in American culture.
Did it ever occur to you that "Barry" might be a term of affection, because Barack sounds too formal and linguistically remote to most Americans?
Ease up, dude. You can name things what you want, and so can we. I mean, this is the internet; the writ of language police holds no sway here.
Bill Clinton called himself Bill. Same with other examples. you cite.
Sorry, bub, it's racist which is why only Obama opponents use it.
Example. In Israel Ehud Barck called Tzipi Livni "Tzipporah" which is her formal name. Except she doesn't use it. He was roundly called out for being a sexist. He was reminding voters that Tzipi is a "woman," not that they didn't know. Calling Barack Obama is racist, NRO, Lucianne.com, Free Republic, Thunderbolt racism.
Get it, Chuck?
Re: two states;
The facts on the ground are that it is unlikely the settlers would vacate the west bank.
It is arguable if the army could enforce a mass evacuation.
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Given the likely social unrest as the recession bites in the US. The moneyed and powerful would no doubt prefer an Obama to a 'more of the same (confrontational) McCain'.
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I can only imagine a Ron Paul offering any hope or solutions. He could still be incorporated into any Govt. at any time.
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The whole Jewish identity issue is going to surface amongst Jews, a kind of post mortem as the economy dives.
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"But a sizable percentage are Israel-firsters (like that Kunst you quote). Better they should go with the GOP and stay there……"
Yes, and let SOG, John Hagee and Sarah Palin be the future of the Republican Party: wandering in the desert for 40 years.
Everything is racist in the mind of a racialist, just like everything is sexist in the mind of a feminist, and everything is anti-semitic in the mind of a Jewish ideologue. Everything, that is except slavish pandering, which is what each demands under threat of throwing out childish, shopworn accusations.
I thought one of the points of this site was to highlight the dangers of the hyper-sensitive, victim-industry, persecution-complex, politically correct, censorious mindset?
It looks like the Obama presidency is just going to bring on more neo-Marxist, tribal warfare-stirring, ethno-ideological demagoguery. Except now instead of just organized Jewry throwing its weight around, it's going to be every other left-liberal special interest group with a chip on its shoulder, too. Great.
Meanwhile, the corrupt elites and hustlers who are engineering it are laughing all the way to the bank.
Jim, the Adolf comparison is beneath you.
I thought the Adolph comparison was rather illustrative.
You guys need to chill! From now on call me "Jimmy the Dog-Rapist." It's accurate, more or less, and easy to remember!
Sorry Marco, from now on I'll call him the Lawyer Formerly Known As Barry, k?
I hope that comes across as more politically correct and racially sensitive than my other choice of names for him, "The Wall Street House Negro".
Witty is sooooo sick..:
"There is no "Jewish only" state. There is a state in Jews are the majority, in which Jews have the sense that they are self-governing, rather than being governed by any of the alternatives there."
We don't even have to explain him any more…it all too obivious in comments like this.
Gentiles and christians are the majority in the US witty, maybe we should remove all jews from American's government and make them follow christian and gentile rules and law…so gentiles can have a sense of self governing….whatta you say?
ashke-nazi
"The two-state solution is the only option because the two peoples genuinely do NOT think of themselves as one, nor desire to." — Richard Witty
This sounds very much like the political
line of the German zionists who worked with Heydrich and Eichmann in the 30's to move the Jews out of Germany into Palestine..
2 sides of the same coin…
Marco Ross: "Why do racists call Barack Barry?"
Obama's mother called him Barry as did his grandparents and all his friends growing up. It seems hard to believe they called him that because they were racists. Barry was the name Obama went by most of his life. He only changed it when he decided to go into politics. It might be interesting to know why he thought Barack was somehow better.
Look Duscany, I'm not implying anything here, but the name change did happen to coincide more or less with a seriously kick-ass event…
Witty has taken the place of old WASP apologists. That's only fitting the place the Jews have taken in USA power positions. The WASPs gave a lot to this nation, the founding fathers, and the Jews have
given their all, that is, they took co ntrol of redneck Johnson's feeble
head. The result is what we have–Is it Camelot?