Comments on: A Koan on Religion and Zionism from Jack Ross

By: MRW.

MRW. — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Catholic nationalism is what got the Muslims (1480s) and Jews (1492) ejected from Spain.

By: Richard Witty

Richard Witty — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Hard to know what Jack is saying.

By: anon

anon — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

The bottom line is 99% racial. Yeah, there's few Jews who are black, and yeah, a few who convert after dancing on their head for a long while. Let's get to the main meat course.

Hitler knows.

By: John K.

John K. — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

So is Jack saying that if you're a) a secular Jew; and b) you're not a Zionist; then that means you're not a Jew? In other words, if you're secular, your connection to "Jewishness" is Israel?

I think that's an accurate description for many (most?) secular American Jews. But I just don't think it has to be so. There's lots more to being a Jew (high holidays, Jewish history, stories, humor, ethics) if you're not pious than supporting Israel.

By: Rowan Berkeley

Rowan Berkeley — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

I see what Jack is saying, Richard : he is saying that if one subtracts both the Jewish religion, and Jewish nationalism, the only thing left that can possibly lead one to continue to claim to be 'a Jew' is the 'pitiful old left conceit' that people fortuitously born Jews have played a progressive role in history, and thus made Jewishness, while still fortuitous, something worth maintaining.

By: Richard Witty

Richard Witty — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

I agree with John K.

Its a fallacious equation.

Jews self-identify for multiple reasons, or don't for multiple reasons.

Its our/their choice.

By: LeaNder

LeaNder — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

... an Italian barber ...falls in love with a girl from Brooms Street, New York. The barber wants to marry the girl, but her mother would not hear of it. In the end, the mother says the two could be married if the barber converted to Judaism. He does; the mother makes him learn Hebrew and pray every morning with a yarmulke on his head. The couple live with the mother-in-law, and the barber doesn't get his breakfast until he has said his prayers. But that isn't the end of it. The girl happens to have a brother named Joe, and Joe doesn't pray before breakfast and still gets his meal. After a while, the barber becomes impatient, and he asks his mother-in-law. "Why doesn't Joe have to pray before breakfast?" The answer comes promptly: "Joe is a Jew. I know he's a Jew. You got to prove it!"

By: D.

D. — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Also, LeaNder, the barber will stop being a Jew when he stops wearing the yarmulke, etc., but Joe's Jewishness is forever.

Technically it's not true that one can ever convert to "being a Jew".

By: Richard Witty

Richard Witty — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Thats a funny story.

By: Michael W

Michael W — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

I have no idea what Jack is saying.

@ Lea

When Ruth converted into Judaism, she didn't just take the Jewish God as her own, but she had to take the Jewish people as her too.