Comments on: ‘J Street’ Cannot Take on AIPAC and the Neocons Frontally http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:18:06 +0000 hourly 1 By: ifnotnowwhen http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45096 ifnotnowwhen Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45096 <p>People like Witty always brag about how dual-loyalty is a non-sequitur, in that everybody has lots of loyalties, even down to<br /> what color socks they wear. He thus (he thinks) cunningly avoids or bashes the issue, which is, what is your prime ID? It seems to me<br /> we will all be facing this issue squarely in the context of Iran. As AIPAC et all pushes, as the pretext for war is implemented, whether by Israel, our "special" ally and/or Obama regime, we will all witness<br /> the question to be writ large, i.e., is America's interest the same as <br /> Israel's?</p> <p>Make no mistake, it's on the drawing board now.</p> People like Witty always brag about how dual-loyalty is a non-sequitur, in that everybody has lots of loyalties, even down to
what color socks they wear. He thus (he thinks) cunningly avoids or bashes the issue, which is, what is your prime ID? It seems to me
we will all be facing this issue squarely in the context of Iran. As AIPAC et all pushes, as the pretext for war is implemented, whether by Israel, our "special" ally and/or Obama regime, we will all witness
the question to be writ large, i.e., is America's interest the same as
Israel's?

Make no mistake, it's on the drawing board now.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45097 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45097 <p>I saw two excellent films this week about some theme of the middle east (Iraq and Iran, NOT Israel mentioned once, rationally).</p> <p>Persepolis about the Iranian revolution, and The Valley of Elah about American soldiers returned from Iraq.</p> <p>In neither, were Iraqis or Iranians in or seeking power, anything resembling innocent, kind, or just.</p> <p>The Valley of Elah's message was of the horrific corruption of humaneness that the particular American soldiers embodied. They had become sadistic. The ice-breaking moment was of the soldiers in a convoy that chose to run over an 8 year-old blocking the road, rather than stop (stimulated by the their fear of being attacked when intentionally stopped by similar obstacles by precedent).</p> <p>The obvious message was the degradation to sadism on the part of the soldiers. But, the initiating experience was stimulated by the culture of terror that pre-existed and co-existed.</p> <p>Power is a game of GO. If you've ever played the game, one message is that in the game to win one is a teetering shadow of oneself/other.</p> <p>NEITHER is first. And, at the same time, "we" are always. And NOT, "THEY" (whomever is the identified enemy, Hamas, fanatic Shia, US military, Israel, paleo, neo).</p> <p>The neo-conservatives were not right, nor were they wrong.</p> <p>So long as the US is dependant on middle eastern oil, we ARE involved there. Whether Israel is in the stew or not, oil is still the game.</p> <p>If you want to change the way the game is played, or even that it is played, conservation of the use of oil is KEY.</p> I saw two excellent films this week about some theme of the middle east (Iraq and Iran, NOT Israel mentioned once, rationally).

Persepolis about the Iranian revolution, and The Valley of Elah about American soldiers returned from Iraq.

In neither, were Iraqis or Iranians in or seeking power, anything resembling innocent, kind, or just.

The Valley of Elah's message was of the horrific corruption of humaneness that the particular American soldiers embodied. They had become sadistic. The ice-breaking moment was of the soldiers in a convoy that chose to run over an 8 year-old blocking the road, rather than stop (stimulated by the their fear of being attacked when intentionally stopped by similar obstacles by precedent).

The obvious message was the degradation to sadism on the part of the soldiers. But, the initiating experience was stimulated by the culture of terror that pre-existed and co-existed.

Power is a game of GO. If you've ever played the game, one message is that in the game to win one is a teetering shadow of oneself/other.

NEITHER is first. And, at the same time, "we" are always. And NOT, "THEY" (whomever is the identified enemy, Hamas, fanatic Shia, US military, Israel, paleo, neo).

The neo-conservatives were not right, nor were they wrong.

So long as the US is dependant on middle eastern oil, we ARE involved there. Whether Israel is in the stew or not, oil is still the game.

If you want to change the way the game is played, or even that it is played, conservation of the use of oil is KEY.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45098 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45098 <p>"My conclusion: Jewish activists on Palestine Anna Baltzer and Phyllis Bennis are right. They say that progressives should not try and truck with the Jewish community."</p> <p>By the same logic, YOU should not truck with the US government.</p> <p>Get human already.</p> "My conclusion: Jewish activists on Palestine Anna Baltzer and Phyllis Bennis are right. They say that progressives should not try and truck with the Jewish community."

By the same logic, YOU should not truck with the US government.

Get human already.

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45099 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45099 <p>It's because of this attitude, which amounts to hereditary bigotry (and to the intentional time-wasting tactics of the richard wittys of this world) that there is no hope for american jewry to rehabilitate itself:</p> <p><i>When people think about what their grandparents would want them to do with their money, they feel guilty and think, AIPAC. You're attacking a sense of communal identity if you attack the institution.</i> </p> It's because of this attitude, which amounts to hereditary bigotry (and to the intentional time-wasting tactics of the richard wittys of this world) that there is no hope for american jewry to rehabilitate itself:

When people think about what their grandparents would want them to do with their money, they feel guilty and think, AIPAC. You're attacking a sense of communal identity if you attack the institution.

]]> By: otto http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45100 otto Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45100 <p>"People like to say that Jews are liberals, but they can be very tough about Arabs."</p> <p>The word is 'chauvinist' or 'bigoted', not 'tough'. 'Tough' is a clear euphemism here.</p> "People like to say that Jews are liberals, but they can be very tough about Arabs."

The word is 'chauvinist' or 'bigoted', not 'tough'. 'Tough' is a clear euphemism here.

]]> By: ifnotnowwhen http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45101 ifnotnowwhen Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45101 <p>Why are you discussing the red herring Big Oil? Show me some evidence that Big Oil was not content with Saddam selling oil to the West. Look at Chaney's original actions and take on any attack on Iran.</p> Why are you discussing the red herring Big Oil? Show me some evidence that Big Oil was not content with Saddam selling oil to the West. Look at Chaney's original actions and take on any attack on Iran.

]]> By: ifnotnowwhen http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45102 ifnotnowwhen Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45102 <p>Why did he change so?</p> Why did he change so?

]]> By: Jacqueline_Hyde http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45103 Jacqueline_Hyde Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45103 <p>AIPAC own military force and they ain't gonna give it up without a fight. And I'm not talking metaphors.</p> <p>You think we're gonna lay a guilt trip on them and they're gonna say "Oh sorry, we'll be nice from now on". Fantasies!</p> AIPAC own military force and they ain't gonna give it up without a fight. And I'm not talking metaphors.

You think we're gonna lay a guilt trip on them and they're gonna say "Oh sorry, we'll be nice from now on". Fantasies!

]]> By: Anonymous http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45104 Anonymous Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45104 <p>"minimal [Jewish] opposition, and maximal individual Jewish support."</p> <p>Regular shell game. We are not talking about a people ignorant of what was happening, we are talking about the very premeditated silence which opens the doors for individuals to perform their trade. Where now the smiles of joy which were plenty before the war whenever a fresh neoconseravtive appeared on the cover of some magazine to the pride of the jewish audience. Were now the cries of antisemitism which were plenty before the war whenever someone pointed that such and then such and then such face on the cover of the magazines were of jews?</p> <p>"Minimal opposition to the war" but maximal opposition to the antiwar movement. I was there. Your newfound inocence will not deceive me.</p> "minimal [Jewish] opposition, and maximal individual Jewish support."

Regular shell game. We are not talking about a people ignorant of what was happening, we are talking about the very premeditated silence which opens the doors for individuals to perform their trade. Where now the smiles of joy which were plenty before the war whenever a fresh neoconseravtive appeared on the cover of some magazine to the pride of the jewish audience. Were now the cries of antisemitism which were plenty before the war whenever someone pointed that such and then such and then such face on the cover of the magazines were of jews?

"Minimal opposition to the war" but maximal opposition to the antiwar movement. I was there. Your newfound inocence will not deceive me.

]]> By: LD http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html/comment-page-1#comment-45105 LD Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/27/i-said-earlier-this-week-that-i-was-going-to-get-to-jeremy-ben-amis-comments-at-the-jewish-antiwar-conference-last-sunday-be.html#comment-45105 <p>I personally think the Palestinians, Iraqis, Iranians, et all. are all majorly screwed. Their lives will continually be terrorized by "democracy."</p> <p>We will become their Nazi Germany. What's worse is that we always tell ourselves how noble our intentions are while at the same time affirming our eternal bond with Israel. </p> <p>Arabs are the new Jews.</p> I personally think the Palestinians, Iraqis, Iranians, et all. are all majorly screwed. Their lives will continually be terrorized by "democracy."

We will become their Nazi Germany. What's worse is that we always tell ourselves how noble our intentions are while at the same time affirming our eternal bond with Israel.

Arabs are the new Jews.

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