Comments on: Goldberg Writhing http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:18:06 +0000 hourly 1 By: Craig http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html/comment-page-1#comment-47816 Craig Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/03/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html#comment-47816 <p>Goldberg's argument there is almost unbelievably naive and over-simplistic -- so much so that it's inconceivable that he would resort to such a dismal effort were it not for an emotional attachment to Israel so strong that it completely overrules his intellect.</p> Goldberg's argument there is almost unbelievably naive and over-simplistic — so much so that it's inconceivable that he would resort to such a dismal effort were it not for an emotional attachment to Israel so strong that it completely overrules his intellect.

]]> By: Anonymous http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html/comment-page-1#comment-47817 Anonymous Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/03/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html#comment-47817 <p>Don't you think israelis should receive the usual american ally gifts before getting american "security?" What about those nuclear incinerations, the firebombing of all major cities, the creation of fake trials to ensure there will be no one to tell the tale. What about the erradication of all traces of ethnonationalism? Maybe the denazionificated land should get that much needed constitution from american hands, stating the (now reduced) boundaries of the country and limiting the size of the military to levels it would forever depend on american "friendship?" Maybe even a best-selling story about the many concentration camps the palestinians were forced into? Maybe never-to-be-found incinerated bodies said to lie under tons of concrete in places where forensic investigators are an extinct species? Why don't americans ziojews buy the whole "american ally" package for their cousins?</p> Don't you think israelis should receive the usual american ally gifts before getting american "security?" What about those nuclear incinerations, the firebombing of all major cities, the creation of fake trials to ensure there will be no one to tell the tale. What about the erradication of all traces of ethnonationalism? Maybe the denazionificated land should get that much needed constitution from american hands, stating the (now reduced) boundaries of the country and limiting the size of the military to levels it would forever depend on american "friendship?" Maybe even a best-selling story about the many concentration camps the palestinians were forced into? Maybe never-to-be-found incinerated bodies said to lie under tons of concrete in places where forensic investigators are an extinct species? Why don't americans ziojews buy the whole "american ally" package for their cousins?

]]> By: Roy Belmont http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html/comment-page-1#comment-47818 Roy Belmont Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/03/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html#comment-47818 <p>Goldberg:<i>I think Americans, Jews and non-Jews alike, were worried about Saddam Hussein for many reasons, including and especially his record of genocide, and I think that many advocates of the war, myself included, were eager to see Saddam overthrown because he was a uniquely evil figure on the world stage. And if the Jewish advocates for the defeat of Saddam argued the way they did because they were sensitized to the issue of genocide...</i><br /> It's crazy, and it's crazy-making. That he could say all that and never bother mentioning SCUDs, the lobbing of missiles into Israel by Saddam in Gulf War I.<br /> Was that so unimportant it doesn't deserve any attention?<br /> I mean he sort of attacked Israel there.<br /> Did it not happen?<br /> Maybe it didn't happen, maybe I'm the one that's crazy. That's how it works right?<br /> You lose your mind - not the whole thing obviously, you can still talk and everything - but you lose the part of your mind that would notice that you've lost your mind, like getting drunk enough the part that would say enough is drunk too...<br /> Goldberg again:<br /> <i>Why is it illegitimate for American Jews to care about Israel's security and argue for American measures that would strengthen Israel's security?</i><br /> That one's a lot easier. Because it's fake. Nobody's faulting Jews for caring and arguing and Goldberg knows that. It's the manipulating and the lying, the blackmailing and thuggish coercion, the behind the scenes pressuring and control of information leaving basically decent people completely in the dark about what's really happening because you feel so fucking superior to them that what they think and feel means nothing and because you know that if they knew what you were really doing they'd despise you and stop letting you get away with it. <br /> And the deaths of their children as soldiers in uniform in Iraq like the deaths of Iraqi children and the deaths of Palestinian children mean nothing because they were never important people to begin with - that's what's illegitimate, not okay. <br /> Really seriously not okay.</p> Goldberg:I think Americans, Jews and non-Jews alike, were worried about Saddam Hussein for many reasons, including and especially his record of genocide, and I think that many advocates of the war, myself included, were eager to see Saddam overthrown because he was a uniquely evil figure on the world stage. And if the Jewish advocates for the defeat of Saddam argued the way they did because they were sensitized to the issue of genocide…
It's crazy, and it's crazy-making. That he could say all that and never bother mentioning SCUDs, the lobbing of missiles into Israel by Saddam in Gulf War I.
Was that so unimportant it doesn't deserve any attention?
I mean he sort of attacked Israel there.
Did it not happen?
Maybe it didn't happen, maybe I'm the one that's crazy. That's how it works right?
You lose your mind – not the whole thing obviously, you can still talk and everything – but you lose the part of your mind that would notice that you've lost your mind, like getting drunk enough the part that would say enough is drunk too…
Goldberg again:
Why is it illegitimate for American Jews to care about Israel's security and argue for American measures that would strengthen Israel's security?
That one's a lot easier. Because it's fake. Nobody's faulting Jews for caring and arguing and Goldberg knows that. It's the manipulating and the lying, the blackmailing and thuggish coercion, the behind the scenes pressuring and control of information leaving basically decent people completely in the dark about what's really happening because you feel so fucking superior to them that what they think and feel means nothing and because you know that if they knew what you were really doing they'd despise you and stop letting you get away with it.
And the deaths of their children as soldiers in uniform in Iraq like the deaths of Iraqi children and the deaths of Palestinian children mean nothing because they were never important people to begin with – that's what's illegitimate, not okay.
Really seriously not okay.

]]> By: morris http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html/comment-page-1#comment-47819 morris Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/03/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html#comment-47819 <p>Roy Belmont's last paragraph above - very very powerful! Why does it have to be like this? BTW the jews can be worse to their own. Frankly (& no one is asking me) it is all beginning to look like hell on earth.</p> Roy Belmont's last paragraph above – very very powerful! Why does it have to be like this? BTW the jews can be worse to their own. Frankly (& no one is asking me) it is all beginning to look like hell on earth.

]]> By: morris http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html/comment-page-1#comment-47820 morris Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/03/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html#comment-47820 <p>Discussions of America's military abroad can only be about war crimes, consistently, week in week out, horrifying war crimes against the defenseless. --- I can't help think alcohol is part of the problem, I could be wrong about the alcohol, but not about the war crimes. Murder on a frightening scale. --- A policy from on high --- is there a theological basis? A theological involvement?</p> Discussions of America's military abroad can only be about war crimes, consistently, week in week out, horrifying war crimes against the defenseless. — I can't help think alcohol is part of the problem, I could be wrong about the alcohol, but not about the war crimes. Murder on a frightening scale. — A policy from on high — is there a theological basis? A theological involvement?

]]> By: Kilted http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html/comment-page-1#comment-47821 Kilted Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/03/jeffrey-goldberg-asks-why-is-it-illegitimate-for-american-jews-to-care-about-israels-security-and-argue-for-american-measur.html#comment-47821 <p>Mr. Weiss:</p> <p>It's not "No Bosnian lobby." Better to say "No Serbian lobby." The province/protectorate of Kosovo/Kosova isn't in Bosnia. Sigh, so many interventions, its hard to keep them straight!</p> Mr. Weiss:

It's not "No Bosnian lobby." Better to say "No Serbian lobby." The province/protectorate of Kosovo/Kosova isn't in Bosnia. Sigh, so many interventions, its hard to keep them straight!

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