Comments on: Spooked by Left’s ‘anti-Israelism,’ Liberal Jews Sat on Their Hands as U.S. Destroyed Iraqi Society http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 03:52:48 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ed http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45315 Ed Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45315 <p>Organized Judaism understands it’s running an elaborate grift. Certitude and denial are both necessary components of the scam. Once it admits it is fallible, (in this case, wrong on the Iraq war) cracks develop in its moral authority. The collective body is not unlike George W. Bush in its stubbornness, haughtiness, sense of entitlement and delusions of righteousness. The liberals are even more self-righteous than the conservatives, and in that sense are that much more delusional.</p> Organized Judaism understands it’s running an elaborate grift. Certitude and denial are both necessary components of the scam. Once it admits it is fallible, (in this case, wrong on the Iraq war) cracks develop in its moral authority. The collective body is not unlike George W. Bush in its stubbornness, haughtiness, sense of entitlement and delusions of righteousness. The liberals are even more self-righteous than the conservatives, and in that sense are that much more delusional.

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45316 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45316 <p>"Liberals", Ed, is a code word for a number of things at the same time. For instance, "pro-choice" is supposed to be a "liberal" value, right? It just struck me that Joe Lieberman's antics are an illustration of a thesis I have held for a long time, namely, that the US Left got trapped in a strategic cul-de-sac over abortion in 1973. The only ideological glue that holds Holy Joe to the Dems is his much-vaunted "pro-choice" profile, and it is precisely this that allowed the Weekly Standard kool-aid gang to substitute Palin for Lieberman as McCain's V-P: they convinced McCain that Lieberman would lose him the bizarre and cranky GOP rural "base".</p> "Liberals", Ed, is a code word for a number of things at the same time. For instance, "pro-choice" is supposed to be a "liberal" value, right? It just struck me that Joe Lieberman's antics are an illustration of a thesis I have held for a long time, namely, that the US Left got trapped in a strategic cul-de-sac over abortion in 1973. The only ideological glue that holds Holy Joe to the Dems is his much-vaunted "pro-choice" profile, and it is precisely this that allowed the Weekly Standard kool-aid gang to substitute Palin for Lieberman as McCain's V-P: they convinced McCain that Lieberman would lose him the bizarre and cranky GOP rural "base".

]]> By: observer http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45317 observer Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45317 <p>Good psyche analogy to Shrub, Ed. Now, how about that Chaney, the guy who<br /> totally switched his position on going into Iraq?</p> Good psyche analogy to Shrub, Ed. Now, how about that Chaney, the guy who
totally switched his position on going into Iraq?

]]> By: John Lewis-Dickerson http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45318 John Lewis-Dickerson Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45318 <p>******************************<br /> AN EXCELLENT (SOMEWHAT ON TOPIC) ARTICLE BY DAVID MICHAEL GREEN:</p> <p>What to Do When Your Party Sucks <br /> by David Michael Green @ CommonDreams.org</p> <p>Progressives are gonna have a lot of fun and satisfaction over the next two, four and eight years – although with each passing day and appointment, it doesn't appear as though much of it is going to come from Barack Obama. </p> <p>More on that last bit another time. Meanwhile, the good stuff will be coming from the other team, for once. Now harmlessly out of power, their antics will have little impact in the real world. But, if schadenfreude is your game, you're gonna enjoy this. </p> <p>The Republican Party had the absolute sh** kicked out of it. And that was back in 2006. Then it was drowned, set on fire, hung, drawn and quartered, and hit by a freight train in 2008.....</p> <p>ENTIRE ARTICLE - <br /> http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/11/24</p> <p><br /> </p> ******************************
AN EXCELLENT (SOMEWHAT ON TOPIC) ARTICLE BY DAVID MICHAEL GREEN:

What to Do When Your Party Sucks
by David Michael Green @ CommonDreams.org

Progressives are gonna have a lot of fun and satisfaction over the next two, four and eight years – although with each passing day and appointment, it doesn't appear as though much of it is going to come from Barack Obama.

More on that last bit another time. Meanwhile, the good stuff will be coming from the other team, for once. Now harmlessly out of power, their antics will have little impact in the real world. But, if schadenfreude is your game, you're gonna enjoy this.

The Republican Party had the absolute sh** kicked out of it. And that was back in 2006. Then it was drowned, set on fire, hung, drawn and quartered, and hit by a freight train in 2008…..

ENTIRE ARTICLE –
link to commondreams.org

]]> By: Michael W http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45319 Michael W Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45319 <p>I have a problem with the title of this post. "destory Iraqi society", what part of Iraqi society did the US destroy? Lives(whether people are dead or alive) isn't a characteristic of a society. How the government is run is a characteristic of society. Yes, the status quo in Iraq was destroyed, are you a conservative now?</p> <p>Also, I know some Jewish friends that went to anti-Iraq war rallies. And the general feeling in Jewish Democrat circles was against the war. The Jews didn't vote for Bush in 2000 and 2004.</p> <p>This is more of Christian war than a Jewish American one. Didn't Bush use the word "Crusade" during one of his speeches?</p> <p>What would the appropriate move for the Jewish Left be? The Left in general did rallies which Jews took a part of. I think Phil has a distorted view that organized Jewry in America can control the Bush administration. Iraq isn't a Jewish issue. It's an American one. That's why there wasn't anything specifically Jewish in the anti-Iraq war movement.</p> <p>As Darfur happened, it was the Jews who took the most part in it? Why won't Phil talk about how the non-Jewish Left did nothing. There was a HUGE Darfur rally in Washington about 3 years ago. 80,000 people I think. My friends that went said that a third were Jewish. Jews from all over the East Coast. There were so many Jewish organizations involved.</p> I have a problem with the title of this post. "destory Iraqi society", what part of Iraqi society did the US destroy? Lives(whether people are dead or alive) isn't a characteristic of a society. How the government is run is a characteristic of society. Yes, the status quo in Iraq was destroyed, are you a conservative now?

Also, I know some Jewish friends that went to anti-Iraq war rallies. And the general feeling in Jewish Democrat circles was against the war. The Jews didn't vote for Bush in 2000 and 2004.

This is more of Christian war than a Jewish American one. Didn't Bush use the word "Crusade" during one of his speeches?

What would the appropriate move for the Jewish Left be? The Left in general did rallies which Jews took a part of. I think Phil has a distorted view that organized Jewry in America can control the Bush administration. Iraq isn't a Jewish issue. It's an American one. That's why there wasn't anything specifically Jewish in the anti-Iraq war movement.

As Darfur happened, it was the Jews who took the most part in it? Why won't Phil talk about how the non-Jewish Left did nothing. There was a HUGE Darfur rally in Washington about 3 years ago. 80,000 people I think. My friends that went said that a third were Jewish. Jews from all over the East Coast. There were so many Jewish organizations involved.

]]> By: jim s http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45320 jim s Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45320 <p>Michael W., the reason why the war was thought of as Jewish was that so many Jews supported it, even though though the Jewish-American masses, like people in general, opposed it. Also, the tone adopted above seems all too self-righteous. One knows that Jews have been too often criticized; still, one would like some acknowledgement that Jews are capable of cruelty, brutality, and evil.<br /> That much said, one agrees with your plaint about the "destruction" of Iraqi society. America certainly had a hand in it, but so did the insurgency. It also may have been in an unusually bad state to begin with, what with the Sunni Arabs oppressing the other groups in Iraq.</p> Michael W., the reason why the war was thought of as Jewish was that so many Jews supported it, even though though the Jewish-American masses, like people in general, opposed it. Also, the tone adopted above seems all too self-righteous. One knows that Jews have been too often criticized; still, one would like some acknowledgement that Jews are capable of cruelty, brutality, and evil.
That much said, one agrees with your plaint about the "destruction" of Iraqi society. America certainly had a hand in it, but so did the insurgency. It also may have been in an unusually bad state to begin with, what with the Sunni Arabs oppressing the other groups in Iraq.

]]> By: Michael W http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45321 Michael W Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45321 <p>"the reason why the war was thought of as Jewish was that so many Jews supported it, even though though the Jewish-American masses, like people in general, opposed it."</p> <p>Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?</p> <p>This is just a double standard that Jews had to face since the dawn of time, taking responsibility of choices Jewish individuals make. </p> <p>"some acknowledgement" ---- I hate the Israeli settlers just as much as the next guy. I know an American neo-con who hates the settlers too, which really debunks Phil argument on neocons supporting Israeli settlers. </p> "the reason why the war was thought of as Jewish was that so many Jews supported it, even though though the Jewish-American masses, like people in general, opposed it."

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

This is just a double standard that Jews had to face since the dawn of time, taking responsibility of choices Jewish individuals make.

"some acknowledgement" —- I hate the Israeli settlers just as much as the next guy. I know an American neo-con who hates the settlers too, which really debunks Phil argument on neocons supporting Israeli settlers.

]]> By: MM http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45322 MM Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45322 <p><i>What part of Iraqi society did the US destroy?</i></p> <p>Millions of lives, billions in lost GDP, thousands of constructions (many historical), thousands of ancient artifacts, centuries of peaceful relations amongst the different sects and tribes, and of course, the only one the U.S. media reported on--the big fat Saddam personality cult and autocracy that had defined the country for decades. Which had been long bolstered by... the U.S. superpower.</p> <p><i>Yes, the status quo in Iraq was destroyed, are you a conservative now?</i></p> <p>Exactly how was "the status quo in Iraq" within the U.S.'s or Judonia's jurisdiction by the way?</p> <p><i>What would the appropriate move for the Jewish Left be?</i></p> <p>I dunno, more blind, ultra-nationalist ethnocentrism?</p> <p><i>Didn't Bush use the word "Crusade" during one of his speeches?</i></p> <p>Yeah, and he also went to Jerusalem and said how beautiful it was that it was undivided. (They told W. the Apartheid Barrier was "The Berlin Wall" and he just paused for a sec, and nodded, knowingly. True story.)</p> <p><i>As Darfur happened, it was the Jews who took the most part in it?</i></p> <p>No, but if by "the Jews" you mean "Zionists," well, they took part by dishonestly trying to spin it as an Arab-on-Black genocide. They even got poor old Colin Powell (Obama wasn't available yet I guess) to use the G word!</p> <p><i>Why won't Phil talk about how the non-Jewish Left did nothing?</i></p> <p>Uhh, fuck you--I got arrested and billy-clubbed and left the country to be able to stop paying taxes to it.</p> <p>And you? Did you protest the Iraq war because the U.S. military should've been intervening in Darfur instead?</p> <p>Why not Iran?</p> <p><i>There was a HUGE Darfur rally in Washington about 3 years ago.</i></p> <p>Sure, sure, that rings a bell. HUGE.</p> <p><i>80,000 people</i></p> <p>Cough!</p> <p>I was marching with millions and millions around the world for months.</p> <p><i>My friends that went said that a third were Jewish. Jews from all over the East Coast. There were so many Jewish organizations involved.</i></p> <p>ROTFLMAO! Impressive!!!</p> What part of Iraqi society did the US destroy?

Millions of lives, billions in lost GDP, thousands of constructions (many historical), thousands of ancient artifacts, centuries of peaceful relations amongst the different sects and tribes, and of course, the only one the U.S. media reported on–the big fat Saddam personality cult and autocracy that had defined the country for decades. Which had been long bolstered by… the U.S. superpower.

Yes, the status quo in Iraq was destroyed, are you a conservative now?

Exactly how was "the status quo in Iraq" within the U.S.'s or Judonia's jurisdiction by the way?

What would the appropriate move for the Jewish Left be?

I dunno, more blind, ultra-nationalist ethnocentrism?

Didn't Bush use the word "Crusade" during one of his speeches?

Yeah, and he also went to Jerusalem and said how beautiful it was that it was undivided. (They told W. the Apartheid Barrier was "The Berlin Wall" and he just paused for a sec, and nodded, knowingly. True story.)

As Darfur happened, it was the Jews who took the most part in it?

No, but if by "the Jews" you mean "Zionists," well, they took part by dishonestly trying to spin it as an Arab-on-Black genocide. They even got poor old Colin Powell (Obama wasn't available yet I guess) to use the G word!

Why won't Phil talk about how the non-Jewish Left did nothing?

Uhh, fuck you–I got arrested and billy-clubbed and left the country to be able to stop paying taxes to it.

And you? Did you protest the Iraq war because the U.S. military should've been intervening in Darfur instead?

Why not Iran?

There was a HUGE Darfur rally in Washington about 3 years ago.

Sure, sure, that rings a bell. HUGE.

80,000 people

Cough!

I was marching with millions and millions around the world for months.

My friends that went said that a third were Jewish. Jews from all over the East Coast. There were so many Jewish organizations involved.

ROTFLMAO! Impressive!!!

]]> By: syvanen http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45323 syvanen Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45323 <p>Michal W</p> <p>Of course many Jews supported the Darfur independence movement -- it is Israeli policy to divide Moslem nations. Most of the rational left stayed away from that issue for the simple reason it is a civil war between African tribes competing for limited resources and the the US is really powerless to do any good there. In addition, doing good is not what the US does when it gets involved in other people's wars -- it is just another opportunity to expand American imperial influence.</p> Michal W

Of course many Jews supported the Darfur independence movement — it is Israeli policy to divide Moslem nations. Most of the rational left stayed away from that issue for the simple reason it is a civil war between African tribes competing for limited resources and the the US is really powerless to do any good there. In addition, doing good is not what the US does when it gets involved in other people's wars — it is just another opportunity to expand American imperial influence.

]]> By: Michael W http://mondoweiss.net/2008/11/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html/comment-page-1#comment-45324 Michael W Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/24/spooked-by-lefts-antiisraelism-liberal-jews-sat-on-their-hands-as-us-destroyed-iraqi-society.html#comment-45324 <p>@MM,<br /> "centuries of peaceful relations amongst the different sects and tribes"<br /> That's the dumbest thing I've read on this blog.<br /> And the rest in that list is either not a characteristic of society or not caused by the US.</p> <p>"Exactly how was "the status quo in Iraq" within the U.S.'s or Judonia's jurisdiction by the way?"<br /> What the hell are you talking about?</p> <p>"I dunno, more blind, ultra-nationalist ethnocentrism?"<br /> What the f are you talking about?</p> <p>"No, but if by "the Jews" you mean "Zionists," well, they took part by dishonestly trying to spin it as an Arab-on-Black genocide. They even got poor old Colin Powell (Obama wasn't available yet I guess) to use the G word!"<br /> So you don't care about Darfur? Hypocritical Lefty(I'm a Lefty as well so I know).</p> <p>"left the country to be able to stop paying taxes to it."<br /> Oh, a real patriot we have here. You don't leave the country just because you don't like the foreign policy. You try to change it with in the country.</p> <p>"I was marching with millions and millions around the world for months."<br /> Millions in one rally?</p> @MM,
"centuries of peaceful relations amongst the different sects and tribes"
That's the dumbest thing I've read on this blog.
And the rest in that list is either not a characteristic of society or not caused by the US.

"Exactly how was "the status quo in Iraq" within the U.S.'s or Judonia's jurisdiction by the way?"
What the hell are you talking about?

"I dunno, more blind, ultra-nationalist ethnocentrism?"
What the f are you talking about?

"No, but if by "the Jews" you mean "Zionists," well, they took part by dishonestly trying to spin it as an Arab-on-Black genocide. They even got poor old Colin Powell (Obama wasn't available yet I guess) to use the G word!"
So you don't care about Darfur? Hypocritical Lefty(I'm a Lefty as well so I know).

"left the country to be able to stop paying taxes to it."
Oh, a real patriot we have here. You don't leave the country just because you don't like the foreign policy. You try to change it with in the country.

"I was marching with millions and millions around the world for months."
Millions in one rally?

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