Comments on: What If 750,000 Israelis Were Blockaded and Denied Food?

By: Eurosabra

Eurosabra — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

The world stood silent when Jewish Jerusalem was cut off from food and water from December 1947 to July 1948, so I expect it would stand silent once again, as the Jews descended into famine and disease. Perhaps, once again, they would muster the armed force to break through and save themselves.

The problem is, Phil, you do not know the history. Gaza is potentially MUCH LESS cut off than Jerusalem ever was, because--for whatever reason--EGYPT is sealing the border, and could, unilaterally, provide a secure route for ANY form of aid it wished. The siege of Jerusalem was air-tight, Palestinian,s Jordanian, and some Egyptians around Hebron, and broken only by military intervention by the IDF.

You do not know the history, and you make ahistorical parallels as a result, which might cause those who know the history to regard you as a dangerous fantasist.

By: Eva Smagacz

Eva Smagacz — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Eurosabra,

I can see that you are really concerned with Phil' s comparison of Israeli Politics with Arab Nazism and the subject matter of people's suffering in Gaza has completely escaped you...
If you pass hungry person on the street, is your only reaction the thought: Jews suffered more, before you carry on walking?
If you pass victim of a car accident on the street, is your only reaction: Jews had worse injuries during bombing in Jerusalem, before you carry on walking?

Is the scale of human suffering in Gaza completely beyond your comprehension?, Or is it just not worth commenting on because it is just sand niggers suffering......? And do you REALLY recommend that Gazan Arabs should follow Jewish example and take up arms to break siege, as world is indifferent?

If Gaza was to take arms it would be Lebanon 2006 only ten times worse. It would be akin to liquidation of Warsaw Ghetto. The Israeli Government discussed destruction of Gaza last month, village by village, aparment block by apartment block.

By: Eurosabra

Eurosabra — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

The Egyptians keep the border closed because of the bombings by Islamists in Taba, Nuweibeh, and Dahab. Israeli-Arabs and Egyptians in Egyptian Sinai died at the hands of Islamist terrorists, and Egypt–for some reason–does not want an open border between Sinai and Gaza. Phil asked "What if 750,000 Israelis were blockaded and denied food?" Well, the world did nothing when 100,000 were for 6 months. So they would wither and die, obviously. I doubt Israel would compel Egypt to close the border, because to do so would endanger the Camp David Treaty, at a minimum. Basically, you want Israel to let the UN feed a hostile power from Israeli territory so it can continue to wage total war against Israel. Bullshit. Let the UN truck everything from Egypt, there's nothing stopping them except the Egyptians. If Hamas wants food through Israel, let it stop the rockets.

By: Colin Murray

Colin Murray — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Eurosabra: ...because--for whatever reason--EGYPT is sealing the border, and could, unilaterally, provide a secure route for ANY form of aid it wished...

Let the UN truck everything from Egypt, there's nothing stopping them except the Egyptians.

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C.M.: ...for whatever reason!!!! ...nothing stopping them!!! LOL that is priceless. :) Here is a little excerpt from a 'PeaceWatch' article written by Michael Herzog, an IDF general visiting WINEP.

**********
General Herzog:
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/print.php?template=C05&CID=2376

Egyptian considerations.
Egypt moved to assume a more active role in the Israeli-Palestinian scene out of concern lest the void created by Israeli disengagement and the weakness of new Palestinian leadership be filled by destabilizing Islamist forces. Such a development could rebound on Egypt itself, which has its own share of Islamist challenges. Cairo also wanted to prove its indispensability to Israeli-Palestinian conflict management so as to fend off U.S. pressures to democratize. These considerations prompted Egypt to sponsor the Israeli-Palestinian summit at Sharm al-Shaykh and the Palestinian Authority (PA)-Hamas ceasefire in spring 2005, and to begin training Palestinian security forces.

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C.M.: Egyptian foreign policy isn't made in a vacuum, nor is it made by idiots. Their elite has another reason for cooperating with the siege of Gaza very politely not mentioned by General Herzog: bribe money. Why do you think that, in addition to the $5 billion (one must factor in the indirect handouts, like 'joint' defense research projects) dollars that we give to Israel every year, we give $2.1 billion to Egypt and another $660 million to Jordan? Because we are so nice that we have to give Israel's neighbors cash too, lest they be jealous? How magnanimous of us. I'm tearing up at our tender generosity while our own infrastructure is falling apart, our children are increasingly illiterate and innumerate, and our national debt ceiling has just been raised by $3 TRILLION dollars to satiate the greed of a band of corporate rogues who hold the economic stability of our nation hostage (too big to fail should mean to big to be allowed to exist in the first place). Seriously, do you think the rulers of Egypt, who don't give a rat's ass about their own people, are going to do right by Palestinians, whom they consider uncouth country bumpkins, when billions of dollars per year is dangled before their eyes? 'For whatever reason' indeed.

By: jane arnold

jane arnold — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

It is absurd to even think for one second that Israel would run out of food, they have stolen arab lands, grow a multitude of crops which they feed themselves with and make zillions out of, and we of conscience avoid buying them, like Carmel in England, we do what we can but the land of Israel will never suffer while it has the world's biggest power pushing billions of dollars their way, etctera.

By: anon

anon — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

We bribe Egypt annually, which along with Israel; these two countries
get by far the most significant chunk of USA total annual foreign aid,
without even counting, in the case of Israel, lots of other side aid. Why? So Egypt stays pals with Israel as a practical matter--no other reason. Also, in the case of Israel, with virtually no strings attached
and Israel gets its money up front, then makes interest off that money, all paid for by Americans borrowing on credit with interest--from, e.g., China.

As Truman remarked, the Jews have no sense of proportion. This remark has been echoed by many, e.g., concerning the Jews who
participated in the Versailles Treaty negotiations as representatives or staffers.

I agree with CM & Eva Eurosabra is quick to point the ignorance and partiality finger. The pot calling the kettle black.

By: Richard Witty

Richard Witty — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

What Zionists have and American Zionists sympathize with, is a desire to live safely and be accepted.

When that happens substantively, even incrementally, then aggressions will diminish.

IF the dissenting community stated its solidarity for a genuine just MUTUAL peace as strongly as its angers, then Israel would have a path to reconcile rather than only defend.

Otherwise the dissent looks like a proposal that might have gotten far enough to work with, but didn't, and won't. NOt all that different from the Palestinians rational claim that Israel's proposals have been real but not yet there.

Its hopeful that Hamas claims that it accepts Palestine at 67 borders, but no statement that it accepts Israel at 67 borders.

By: Rowan Berkeley

Rowan Berkeley — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

C'mon, if Egypt doesn't do what it's told, al CIA-duh will blow up a few dozen civilians in a Cairo market.

By: Sword of Gideonthe point.

Sword of Gideonthe point. — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Nobody gave a shit about the siege of jerusalem in 1948. Nor the siege of the Warsaw ghetto. Actually I take that back. Eva's family was outside cheering when the Germans burned it down and killed EVERYBODY in 1943. Last but not least the Egyptians could open the border on their side. Perhaps they could rethink their brilliant destruction of the green houses. Nah.

By: Eurosabra

Eurosabra — Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000

Egypt is bribed because an Islamic or pan-Arab nationalist Egyptian government would HAVE to make war on Israel, probably resulting in 1970-73 levels of destruction, because of the Egyptian people's undying enmity to Israel, resulting (again) in a long-term closure of the Suez Canal, which the world economy cannot afford. Also the Islamist strikes on the Sinai have made Egypt wary for its own reasons, and people who claim israel should open the border and run the risks for moral reasons never make that claim versus Egypt. Low expectations of Arab leadership, you see.

You can't alienate ALL your neighbors with terrorism and then be dependent on their good-will. (A point Israel would do well to remember, but GOI has concluded that no good-will will be forthcoming, ever, regardless of Israeli conduct--Jordan and Egypt are exceptions, but people regard those leaderships as inauthentic and purchased, anyway.)