Comments on: Israelis have been harmed in very deep ways by occupation http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 06:48:11 +0000 hourly 1 By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43644 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43644 <p>"It's easy, I think, in Lebanon or Palestine to want a monopoly on the suffering that these wars have had. Being the victim is somehow morally facile. But I think a nuanced look at the war will show that even the aggressors, foreign and domestic, were harmed in very deep ways."</p> <p>-- no Phil, you are being morally obtuse. The fact that aggressing other nations fucks you up simply proves you shouldn't aggress them.</p> "It's easy, I think, in Lebanon or Palestine to want a monopoly on the suffering that these wars have had. Being the victim is somehow morally facile. But I think a nuanced look at the war will show that even the aggressors, foreign and domestic, were harmed in very deep ways."

– no Phil, you are being morally obtuse. The fact that aggressing other nations fucks you up simply proves you shouldn't aggress them.

]]> By: kevin http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43645 kevin Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43645 <p>The film is worth seeing -- I went in with a lot of hesitation and my defenses up, and I have to say I found it very compelling. True, it doesn't take on the grand crimes of 1982, and it is sometimes frustrating how narrow the perspective is. However, through its very focus it actually opens up issues in ways you will rarely see in the US. Ethan Bronner's ridiculous claim of "inadvertent" collusion (in the NYTimes) is clearly at odds with the film itself, as it unequivocally indicates in several ways that highers-up in the IDF were involved and that a massacre was exactly what they wanted and expected. But the film opens shortly in the US so I'll wait for others to catch it and to chime in.</p> <p>The only shame of Waltz With Bashir is that there are two or three very interesting Palestinian films, and a couple of Lebanese films that are making the festival rounds this year, and none seem destined to gain the audience and profile of Waltz, despite being as good in their own ways, if not better.</p> <p>Look up: Under the Bombs; Salt Of This Sea; Pomegranates and Myrrh; Layla's Birthday; I Want To See... <br /> </p> The film is worth seeing — I went in with a lot of hesitation and my defenses up, and I have to say I found it very compelling. True, it doesn't take on the grand crimes of 1982, and it is sometimes frustrating how narrow the perspective is. However, through its very focus it actually opens up issues in ways you will rarely see in the US. Ethan Bronner's ridiculous claim of "inadvertent" collusion (in the NYTimes) is clearly at odds with the film itself, as it unequivocally indicates in several ways that highers-up in the IDF were involved and that a massacre was exactly what they wanted and expected. But the film opens shortly in the US so I'll wait for others to catch it and to chime in.

The only shame of Waltz With Bashir is that there are two or three very interesting Palestinian films, and a couple of Lebanese films that are making the festival rounds this year, and none seem destined to gain the audience and profile of Waltz, despite being as good in their own ways, if not better.

Look up: Under the Bombs; Salt Of This Sea; Pomegranates and Myrrh; Layla's Birthday; I Want To See…

]]> By: kevin http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43646 kevin Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43646 <p>The film is worth seeing -- I went in with a lot of hesitation and my defenses up, and I have to say I found it very compelling. True, it doesn't take on the grand crimes of 1982, and it is sometimes frustrating how narrow the perspective is. However, through its very focus it actually opens up issues in ways you will rarely see in the US. Ethan Bronner's ridiculous claim of "inadvertent" collusion (in the NYTimes) is clearly at odds with the film itself, as it unequivocally indicates in several ways that highers-up in the IDF were involved and that a massacre was exactly what they wanted and expected. But the film opens shortly in the US so I'll wait for others to catch it and to chime in.</p> <p>The only shame of Waltz With Bashir is that there are two or three very interesting Palestinian films, and a couple of Lebanese films that are making the festival rounds this year, and none seem destined to gain the audience and profile of Waltz, despite being as good in their own ways, if not better.</p> <p>Look up: Under the Bombs; Salt Of This Sea; Pomegranates and Myrrh; Layla's Birthday; I Want To See... <br /> </p> The film is worth seeing — I went in with a lot of hesitation and my defenses up, and I have to say I found it very compelling. True, it doesn't take on the grand crimes of 1982, and it is sometimes frustrating how narrow the perspective is. However, through its very focus it actually opens up issues in ways you will rarely see in the US. Ethan Bronner's ridiculous claim of "inadvertent" collusion (in the NYTimes) is clearly at odds with the film itself, as it unequivocally indicates in several ways that highers-up in the IDF were involved and that a massacre was exactly what they wanted and expected. But the film opens shortly in the US so I'll wait for others to catch it and to chime in.

The only shame of Waltz With Bashir is that there are two or three very interesting Palestinian films, and a couple of Lebanese films that are making the festival rounds this year, and none seem destined to gain the audience and profile of Waltz, despite being as good in their own ways, if not better.

Look up: Under the Bombs; Salt Of This Sea; Pomegranates and Myrrh; Layla's Birthday; I Want To See…

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43647 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43647 <p>While you're waiting for some rich Hollywood producer to bring over some Palestinian flicks, check this excerpt from Elia Suleiman's Divine Intervention:<br /> http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/elia-suleiman-divine-intervention/</p> While you're waiting for some rich Hollywood producer to bring over some Palestinian flicks, check this excerpt from Elia Suleiman's Divine Intervention:
link to niqnaq.wordpress.com

]]> By: kevin http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43648 kevin Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43648 <p>thanks rowan, but i already have the dvd...i also know that the lincoln square cinema in NY refused to program the film solely on the basis of the ninja sequence at the end. but in cinematic terms that doesn't make waltz with bashir a terrible work, it just highlights the lamentable fact that in the US excellent works by palestinians are not seen, largely because the film industry is so zionist. </p> thanks rowan, but i already have the dvd…i also know that the lincoln square cinema in NY refused to program the film solely on the basis of the ninja sequence at the end. but in cinematic terms that doesn't make waltz with bashir a terrible work, it just highlights the lamentable fact that in the US excellent works by palestinians are not seen, largely because the film industry is so zionist.

]]> By: otto http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43649 otto Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43649 <p>We've discussed this before. Of course Israeli jews are damaged by their oppression of arabs, but the constant emphasis on this issue, to the exclusion of the actual and far more intense suffering of the arabs being maltreated, is just one sign of the persistent overconcern for the coloniser and limited concern for the colonised in this relationship. Anyone who treated the problems of apartheid primarily from the point of view of concern for the brutalisation of the Afrikaners would rightly be termed a bigot. The same is true here. </p> We've discussed this before. Of course Israeli jews are damaged by their oppression of arabs, but the constant emphasis on this issue, to the exclusion of the actual and far more intense suffering of the arabs being maltreated, is just one sign of the persistent overconcern for the coloniser and limited concern for the colonised in this relationship. Anyone who treated the problems of apartheid primarily from the point of view of concern for the brutalisation of the Afrikaners would rightly be termed a bigot. The same is true here.

]]> By: anon http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43650 anon Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43650 <p>Do we have a new Gone With The Wind in the making?</p> Do we have a new Gone With The Wind in the making?

]]> By: Joshua http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43651 Joshua Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43651 <p>I wonder if a film that would account for the Lebanese and Palestinian lives lost would create the same kind of press in Israel or the US.</p> I wonder if a film that would account for the Lebanese and Palestinian lives lost would create the same kind of press in Israel or the US.

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2008/12/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html/comment-page-1#comment-43652 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/12/15/israelis-have-been-harmed-in-very-deep-ways-by-occupation.html#comment-43652 <p>I agree that the self-pity of the oppressor is a disgusting thing, and there is an especially nasty example of it in Golda Myerson's well-known exercise in advanced hypocrisy about "we" not being able to forgive the victims for making us kill them. Any truly moral being would have blown her head off for saying that, in my view, so it's just as well for people like here that there aren't any truly moral beings.</p> I agree that the self-pity of the oppressor is a disgusting thing, and there is an especially nasty example of it in Golda Myerson's well-known exercise in advanced hypocrisy about "we" not being able to forgive the victims for making us kill them. Any truly moral being would have blown her head off for saying that, in my view, so it's just as well for people like here that there aren't any truly moral beings.

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