I was cutting firewood right now in the ice when I realized that I'd left the most important part of Dana Goldstein's post out in my last post. Here it is:
As a writer with the last name "Goldstein," I've often found my opinions filtered through other people's assumptions of what Jews think or should think... And even though I rarely cover foreign policy, I have several times received emails and even letters accusing me of harboring Zionist, imperialist views and hoisting them upon the public.
In the post that ensues, Goldstein implicitly acknowledges the justice of those other people's assumptions about someone named Goldstein: and so she distances herself from Israel and Zionism, then says that this war is not making "the world at large, safe for the Jewish people." So Goldstein knows that Israel is doing this in her name, as a Jew. She feels that these disproportionate and brutal actions are redounding to her, and she says that Jews have a "responsibility" to speak out against these things. I applaud her openness and urge her to come on into the water (it's fine, dear, it's boiling).
The effect of her post is to further legitimize my question (to various Iraq war figures): Are you now or have you ever been a Zionist? American Jews need to openly debate their attachment to the Jewish state. Goldstein, by the way, is somewhat attached. And she is plain about it.
Absolute must see:
Click on "View All Images" above
Still marveling over that UJA Toronto site — raising funds for Southern Israel relief — reminding us of the Mumbai tragedy — but not a word about Gaza's plight.
Let's try another one of those popular thought experiments. An 8.2-magnitude earthquake strikes 20 miles south of the California border. In Tijuana, buildings topple, power goes out, more than 600 are dead, thousands injured; hospitals, morgues and emergency services are overwhelmed; government services break down; food, water and medicine run short.
In San Diego, there are a couple of deaths, a few more injuries, and a dozen houses are structurally damaged. Other than that, all public services are functioning normally.
What kind of people would be so insular as to obsess about the 'San Diego crisis' and 'San Diego relief,' when the massive destruction occurred across the border in Mexico? Maybe a few anti-immigration activists, at most.
Legal terminology provides a perfect description of the underlying attitude: DEPRAVED INDIFFERENCE.
I have been thinking that I am now matching up up Jewish named journalists with their politics vis a vis Israel, or their possible secret agenda. I did not do this formerly. I believe it is happening now because I have been made aware of the intense tribalism of Jews. I used to be "blind", as in colorblind ,as we used to say about relating people of color. Becoming aware of the tribe in all it's power has removed this ideal state.
Non-Zionist and neutral-Zionist Jews are finally starting to wake up to what Jewish Zionists have betrothed them by utterly co-opting Judaism on behalf of Zionism. Their choices now seem to be to either change their names and utterly disassociate with Judaism (a route many before them have taken), completely fracture with Jewish Zionists and practice their own interpretation of Judaism that is openly, explicitly and innately anti-Zionist and refuses to associate with Jewish Zionists, and by necessity actively combats them, or allow Zionists to continue to ratchet control of Judaism until they either rule the world or bring an apocalyptic reckoning down on Judaism’s head.
I've been struggling with what Peters expresses. I never had a clue about who was jewish, what were jewish names, and in any case try to see beyond abstractions to particulars. I never knew that all of Clinton's "negotiating" team were in fact totally on Israel's side. I never knew many of the "reporters" who censored the "news" were jewish or seeming zionists.
I was always surprised and hurt by the ferocity with which various jewish friends would give each other "the look ["O, she's one of them! a wasp anti-semite!"]–as I slowly came to understand it–when I criticized US-Israeli actions, before telling me in unison how ignorant I was.
Beyond the horror of the carnage my country is inflicting on the people of Palestine–and Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia, and all the terrors it's caused others around the world and at home, I'm sad to be learning to be aware of categories and questions I'd never considered before. And the rare times I heard others speak of jewish, mormon, or any other "group's" insularity, I assumed that it was their unspeakable bigotry speaking–or, on the lighter side, it was just one of Larry David's "say the unthinkable" jokes.
That's why Phil's site has been such a revelation to me.
I think for me the answer may be to return to judging as much as I can only by individuals, one by one, and leave the hard work of distinguishing among generalizations to all the bright people at this site.
Eva, please. Many of those images are from the 2005 explosion at a Hamas missile shop! This has been documented by France2 yesterday.
I can't seem to post any more, have deleted the relevant cookies.
What I wanted to say is that there is a little IDF computer video psyops unit, and what they do is take genuine atrocity footage from Gaza, intercut it with old stuff from anywhere and anywhen, and then expose their own bastardised versions as fakes and claim they are the originals.
Great slide show, Eva. I was going to suggest that Richard Witty would probably soon be along to cast doubt on their validity, but I see that another landsman has already beaten him to it.
(BTW where is Richard lately? Is it possible that the great windbag has finally been shamed into silence? Or is he busy attending the StandWithUs demos?)
But to return to Goldstein's piece, we need to start clamping down on the promiscuous use of this term "anti-Semitism."
Goldstein writes, "It is tragic to learn that due to the fighting in Gaza, Jews in France, Sweden, Belgium, and Denmark have suffered anti-Semitic violence and vandalism in recent days."
But "anti-Semitism" is supposed to be the irrational hatred of Jews as Jews. If these acts in Europe are due to the fighting in Gaza then they're not due to an irrational hatred. They may be angy, and cruel, maybe even disproportionate, and vengeful, and all the other shortcomings that man is heir to, but they're not "anti-Semitism."
Or to put it another way, if we're going to call acts like these "anti-Semitism," then we have to start accepting that Israel's cruelty to Palestinians is somehow crucially related to Jewishness.
A truly twisted rationalization for hatred.
It's too bad, isn't it S Kneedler?
I've got to agree with Richard. Why don't we also ask if they've ever been members of the communist party while we're at it.
Also, in the midst of the interrogation, a precise definition of "zionist" might be useful, because as of now it seems to mean "any diaspora jew who might have affinity for jews living in Israel".
To all those Jews who are not inline with Israel's policies regarding the Palestinians. Kudos to you for your courage to speak up and your humanity!
I think you've got it, Tex. Zionism means putting an affinity for people you've never met over an affinity for your neighbor here in America.
Goldstein writes, "It is tragic to learn that due to the fighting in Gaza, Jews in France, Sweden, Belgium, and Denmark have suffered anti-Semitic violence and vandalism in recent days."
But "anti-Semitism" is supposed to be the irrational hatred of Jews as Jews. If these acts in Europe are due to the fighting in Gaza then they're not due to an irrational hatred. They may be angy, and cruel, maybe even disproportionate, and vengeful, and all the other shortcomings that man is heir to, but they're not "anti-Semitism."
Oh come off it. It's perfectly clear what anti-semitism is. A state comprised mostly of jews is taking some barbarous actions against a defenseless people and because of that, some retrogrades are vandalising synagogues located 1000 miles away and writing things like "kill the jews", that's practically a textbook definition of anti-semitism. And while racism/prejudice doesn't have to be "irrational" to qualify as such, these actions are in addition to behind abhorrent, are also clearly irrational.
Well said, D.
I think you've got it, Tex. Zionism means putting an affinity for people you've never met over an affinity for your neighbor here in America.
I didn't say "an affinity for people abroad over your neighbor". If it's your opinion that any jew living in the United States that has some feeling/attachment to jews not living in the United States is guilty of some kind of treasonous act, then I would consider you many things, the least of which being wrong.
And LOL, if that is your definition of zionism than we are all zionists now and always have been; Jew & Gentile, Past & Present, before Israel & after Israel. Prosecute the Japanese for treason and put them back in camps, I heard they then & might still have some affinity for other Japanese. The Italians & Germans as well, we know now why they tried to keep us out of WW2, Lindbergh how could you. Deport the Cubans & The Haitians, they keep to themselves, insist on flying their home country's flags and seem to think their "nation" is Haitian, whatever that is. Keep an eye on the Irish, or better yet, all observant Catholics. Round up all the Puerto Ricans on the Eastern Seaboard, confiscate the Puerto Rican flags they insist on flying & demand they swear fealty to the empire. Lastly, declare war on all the Mexican & Guatamalan Americans living in California & The Southwest, demand they renounce all ties to the Spanish language & Mexican culture and denounce any seditious Mexican immigrants (legal?) who refuse to cooperate.
Yes it appears the only real Americans, left, and ever were are White men who's ancestry can be traced to England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Well, don't just tell us what it isn't. Tell us what you think Zionism is. (Be sure to discuss the implications of political lobbying on behalf of a foreign country, as well as of making aliyah.)
Texas Jew wrote: "Oh come off it. It's perfectly clear what anti-semitism is."
If the people of Gaza capture an IOF soldier tonight, and in anger tear him limb from limb, would that be "antisemitism" or just old-fashioned revenge?
Well, don't just tell us what it isn't. Tell us what you think Zionism is. (Be sure to discuss the implications of political lobbying on behalf of a foreign country, as well as of making aliyah.)
I didn't deny that was what zionism was/is. Zionism & Zionist are much abused words who'se definitions aren't clear, but are used liberally. You put forth your own definition of zionism, a pretty liberal one I might add. All I did was point to some of the logical conclusions of your definition.
If the people of Gaza capture an IOF soldier tonight, and in anger tear him limb from limb, would that be "antisemitism" or just old-fashioned revenge?
Since Israel & Gaza are at war right now, as much as a developed state with a modern military & captive slave population can be at 'war', if an IDF soldier was captured by Gazans and killed in a horribly painful way, I'd have trouble prosecuting them for murder or assault much less anti-semitic feelings or actions.
Texas Jew makes a good point. Witty always calls himself a Zionist, but who knows what he means? Perhaps, so as to distinguish between Jew and Zionist we can agree that all Jews are not Zionists, but Zionists today are those who believe that G-D gave them the right to displace
non-Jews from the former Palestine mandate once under British
rule by UN decision, and also believe that all Jews should either
immigrate to Israel or (1) avoid assimilation and (2) use every tool
they have to further Israel government policy, conduct, and agenda–no matter the impact on the best interests of their host nation(s).
Well we have to know what zionism is first. It could be that all Jews are in fact zionists, I don't know. Judging by your definition above, I would say most are not. I will let Richard Witty speak for himself.
As for me,
I'm secular (yes a non-believing Jew, cliche I know) and don't put much stock in what land several millenia old tomes tell me I'm entitled too, even assuming such interpretations are correct. For that matter I think the Palestine mandate was a sham to begin with. Don't blame Palestinians who piss on it.
I have no burning desire to "return" or immigrate to Israel. And I don't think any other Jew that doesn't desire to, should either. Israel can seem like a nice & pretty interesting country sometimes that I wouldn't mind visiting (and I admit the novelty of a "Jewish state" plays some part in that tourism) but as it's a country based on an Apartheid sham, I can't in good conscience.
I'm pretty damn assimilated & so is most of my family since we got here (not a lot of Jews here in this part of the country). With some notable exceptions. Lots of intermarriage & cowboy hats & news of nominal membership at Baptist churches is not unheard of at family gatherings. However, I don't have anything against Jews, or any other group, Sikhs, Indians, Chinese, Puerto Ricans & other Latinos who place a stronger emphasis on preserving their religious & cultural heritages. More power to them.
I don't have any contacts with the Israeli government. Most Jews in the U.S. tend to give Israel the benefit of the doubt long after it showed it didn't deserve it but they are also suceptible just like non jews to the high profile propaganda & media blitzes by very powerful & interested parties that ensure Israel always gets the benefit of the doubt. Still, while some of Israels staunchest supporters are American Jews, so are many of it's most vigorous detractors & condemners.