Comments on: end of the 2-state solution has good smart people using their imagination! http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 03:52:48 +0000 hourly 1 By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36752 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36752 <p>Good that people are thinking.</p> <p>Dealing with the prospective violence from those that are angry or stubborn for hundreds of good and bad reasons, is a big problem though.</p> <p>And, the bridge MUST be relations between the communities, to even participate in a federation.</p> <p>Currently, only Fatah has made that bridge. Hamas has burned it.</p> Good that people are thinking.

Dealing with the prospective violence from those that are angry or stubborn for hundreds of good and bad reasons, is a big problem though.

And, the bridge MUST be relations between the communities, to even participate in a federation.

Currently, only Fatah has made that bridge. Hamas has burned it.

]]> By: American http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36753 American Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36753 <p>A one state solution is impossible.</p> <p>It's idiotic to even consider it...so much for 'smart' people. I won't even go into all the problems and outcomes associated with this insane idea...'really' smart people already know them...but Aparthid State should ring a bell.</p> <p>The ONLY way this is going to be settled in a LASTING manner is to apply the fucking LAW that would be applied to any similar situtation.</p> <p>Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states categorically: </p> <p>"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population in the territory it occupies." </p> <p>Want another LAW?</p> <p>Article 55 of the Hague Regulations(2) forbids the occupying State from changing the character and nature of state property, except for security needs and for the benefit of the local population. </p> <p>"Local population" refers to the inhabitants of the OCCUPIED land. </p> <p>IF it is not settled in this manner, IF the LAW is deviated from just because it involves "Jews" then the Jews will continue to be attacked, reviled..as well they should.</p> <p>I have often said (some) jews are the stupidest people on the face of the earth for two reasons;..doing the same thing over and over (like for 21 centuries) and expecting different results..and second assuming all non jews are stupid.</p> <p>Here is the way the JDL reads article 49..</p> <p>"The use of "deport" and "transfer" indicate that the Convention prohibits the Occupying Power from the active or forcible transfer of its own civilians. Article 49 does not oblige Israel to prevent voluntary settlement by its civilian population just because Arabs don't like it"</p> <p>Evidently in law school the Jews at the JDL never learned about the "or" clause. It's not deport "and" transfer, it's deport "OR" transfer.</p> A one state solution is impossible.

It's idiotic to even consider it…so much for 'smart' people. I won't even go into all the problems and outcomes associated with this insane idea…'really' smart people already know them…but Aparthid State should ring a bell.

The ONLY way this is going to be settled in a LASTING manner is to apply the fucking LAW that would be applied to any similar situtation.

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states categorically:

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population in the territory it occupies."

Want another LAW?

Article 55 of the Hague Regulations(2) forbids the occupying State from changing the character and nature of state property, except for security needs and for the benefit of the local population.

"Local population" refers to the inhabitants of the OCCUPIED land.

IF it is not settled in this manner, IF the LAW is deviated from just because it involves "Jews" then the Jews will continue to be attacked, reviled..as well they should.

I have often said (some) jews are the stupidest people on the face of the earth for two reasons;..doing the same thing over and over (like for 21 centuries) and expecting different results..and second assuming all non jews are stupid.

Here is the way the JDL reads article 49..

"The use of "deport" and "transfer" indicate that the Convention prohibits the Occupying Power from the active or forcible transfer of its own civilians. Article 49 does not oblige Israel to prevent voluntary settlement by its civilian population just because Arabs don't like it"

Evidently in law school the Jews at the JDL never learned about the "or" clause. It's not deport "and" transfer, it's deport "OR" transfer.

]]> By: chris berel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36754 chris berel Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36754 <p>If you wish to use the law as a weapon, you must first know the law.</p> <p>As the disputed territories have no sovereignty to return to, they are legally not occupied, merely in contention and the Geneva convention article you mentioned do not actually apply to the situation.</p> <p>The JDL has no sway over Israeli politics.</p> If you wish to use the law as a weapon, you must first know the law.

As the disputed territories have no sovereignty to return to, they are legally not occupied, merely in contention and the Geneva convention article you mentioned do not actually apply to the situation.

The JDL has no sway over Israeli politics.

]]> By: American http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36755 American Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36755 <p>How about somemore LAW.</p> <p>International Court of Justice Ruling, July 9, 2004</p> <p>"Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, are illegal and an obstacle to peace and to economic and social development [... and] have been established in breach of international law."</p> <p>Even more.</p> <p>http://www.icj-cij.org/icjwww/idocket/imwp/imwpframe.htm</p> <p>In its July 2004 ruling, the International Court of Justice (World Court) in The Hague, Netherlands held that construction of the barrier is "contrary to international law," in part because it "destroyed and confiscated" property, it greatly restricts Palestinian movement, and it "severely impedes the exercise by the Palestinian people of [the] right to self-determination".</p> <p>The World Court ruled 14-1 that construction must end immediately, the existing barrier must be dismantled and affected Palestinians must be compensated.</p> <p>The United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution on July 20, 2004 calling on Israel to respect the World Court ruling. It passed 150-6, with only the United States, Israel, Australia, Micronesia, Marshall Islands and Palau voting against the resolution.</p> <p>Following the 2004 World Court ruling, Israeli spokesperson and senior advisor to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Ra'anan Gissin, said, "I believe that after all the rancour dies, this resolution will find its place in the garbage can of history."</p> <p>I'll let that 'classy" response to the law from the Israelis speak for itself. </p> How about somemore LAW.

International Court of Justice Ruling, July 9, 2004

"Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, are illegal and an obstacle to peace and to economic and social development [... and] have been established in breach of international law."

Even more.

http://www.icj-cij.org/icjwww/idocket/imwp/imwpframe.htm

In its July 2004 ruling, the International Court of Justice (World Court) in The Hague, Netherlands held that construction of the barrier is "contrary to international law," in part because it "destroyed and confiscated" property, it greatly restricts Palestinian movement, and it "severely impedes the exercise by the Palestinian people of [the] right to self-determination".

The World Court ruled 14-1 that construction must end immediately, the existing barrier must be dismantled and affected Palestinians must be compensated.

The United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution on July 20, 2004 calling on Israel to respect the World Court ruling. It passed 150-6, with only the United States, Israel, Australia, Micronesia, Marshall Islands and Palau voting against the resolution.

Following the 2004 World Court ruling, Israeli spokesperson and senior advisor to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Ra'anan Gissin, said, "I believe that after all the rancour dies, this resolution will find its place in the garbage can of history."

I'll let that 'classy" response to the law from the Israelis speak for itself.

]]> By: delia http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36756 delia Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36756 <p>A federation is a good idea, but only as an end product. First, get the settlers off Palestinian land and Palestinians back on to it. That's the first step. In other words, go through the motions of making two states; when that's done, then think about the possibility of a federation.</p> A federation is a good idea, but only as an end product. First, get the settlers off Palestinian land and Palestinians back on to it. That's the first step. In other words, go through the motions of making two states; when that's done, then think about the possibility of a federation.

]]> By: TGGP http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36757 TGGP Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36757 <p>This is simply an idiotic idea. Belgium can barely maintain unity, and the Flems and Walloons haven't even been killing each other. The E.U only made sense in the context of the aftermath of WW2 and universally acknowledged supremacy (we may call it hegemony) of the U.S military in the area. They won't be able to agree on anything. Israel may well want to replace the Law of Return, but with something MORE RESTRICTIVE. It should emulate Singapore in trying to attract the most productive permanent residents along with docile and replaceable guest-workers (the Gulf states know how to do that right). Eventually it may be willing to simply abandon the settlers and leave them at the mercy of the Palestinians if they don't want to return to pre-1967 Israel.</p> This is simply an idiotic idea. Belgium can barely maintain unity, and the Flems and Walloons haven't even been killing each other. The E.U only made sense in the context of the aftermath of WW2 and universally acknowledged supremacy (we may call it hegemony) of the U.S military in the area. They won't be able to agree on anything. Israel may well want to replace the Law of Return, but with something MORE RESTRICTIVE. It should emulate Singapore in trying to attract the most productive permanent residents along with docile and replaceable guest-workers (the Gulf states know how to do that right). Eventually it may be willing to simply abandon the settlers and leave them at the mercy of the Palestinians if they don't want to return to pre-1967 Israel.

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36758 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36758 <p>The trolls outnumber the serious posters so far on this thread. None of the above arguments by them are worth the time involved in reading and refuting them. In other words, if this is an indicator, reading this blog and trying to keep it straight will be a net waste of time. </p> The trolls outnumber the serious posters so far on this thread. None of the above arguments by them are worth the time involved in reading and refuting them. In other words, if this is an indicator, reading this blog and trying to keep it straight will be a net waste of time.

]]> By: chris berel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36759 chris berel Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36759 <p>American,</p> <p>Israel is not a member of the ICJ, therefore its decisions are rather meaningless and without enforcement authority. Additionally, the court refused to allow Israel to present any evidence showing the neccesity of its actions. Hardly more than a kangeroo court.</p> <p>By the way, why is Rowan Berkeley calling himself a troll?</p> American,

Israel is not a member of the ICJ, therefore its decisions are rather meaningless and without enforcement authority. Additionally, the court refused to allow Israel to present any evidence showing the neccesity of its actions. Hardly more than a kangeroo court.

By the way, why is Rowan Berkeley calling himself a troll?

]]> By: nayef http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36760 nayef Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36760 <p>picture of livni in obama "hope" poster making the rounds...</p> <p>http://obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/entries/images/8e/17/440961/original_image.gif?1232947738</p> picture of livni in obama "hope" poster making the rounds…

http://obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/entries/images/8e/17/440961/original_image.gif?1232947738

]]> By: Dan Kelly http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html/comment-page-1#comment-36761 Dan Kelly Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/25/end-of-the-2state-solution-has-good-smart-people-using-their-imagination.html#comment-36761 <p><i>Currently, only Fatah has made that bridge. Hamas has burned it.</i></p> <p>Ridiculous. Fatah's "bridge" is corruption and selling out its own people:</p> <p><b>"...His crime was explaining, during an interview with the Beirut based Al-Quds satellite TV, why there are only a few demonstrations in the West Bank in support of the people of Gaza. Amayreh frankly said that the PA did not allow such demonstrations. Amayreh did not mean to undermine the PA but he said, "the PA has certain commitments towards Israel and they (PA) do not want things to get out of their hands." Amayreh also said the Israelis do not respect the PA and view the PA as a kind of "servant" to Israeli interests."</b></p> <p><a href="http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/01/25/details-on-the-arrest-of-khalid-amayreh/" rel="nofollow">Details on the Arrest of Khalid Amayreh</a></p> Currently, only Fatah has made that bridge. Hamas has burned it.

Ridiculous. Fatah's "bridge" is corruption and selling out its own people:

"…His crime was explaining, during an interview with the Beirut based Al-Quds satellite TV, why there are only a few demonstrations in the West Bank in support of the people of Gaza. Amayreh frankly said that the PA did not allow such demonstrations. Amayreh did not mean to undermine the PA but he said, "the PA has certain commitments towards Israel and they (PA) do not want things to get out of their hands." Amayreh also said the Israelis do not respect the PA and view the PA as a kind of "servant" to Israeli interests."

Details on the Arrest of Khalid Amayreh

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