Dan Fleshler is feeling lonely because as he points out, there is now a chasm between the two narratives and in forsaking the Israel narrative, Fleshler wants some support from the pro-Palestinian side, to condemn Hamas. He can have it from me: I believe that Hamas uses civilians as human shields, I do think that Hamas is terrorizing southern Israel. (Generally I've found that when there are competing narratives, both narratives are true.) Fleshler quotes me quoting Rashid Khalidi saying at a Nakba event earlier this year that Hamas's rocket attacks are illegal, immoral and stupid. I saw Khalidi today and he was worried about his relatives in Gaza. Though I imagine he feels the same way about the rocket attacks.
I know that in order to build a coalition that can crack the lobby, leftwing/realist Americans are going to have to acknowledge Israeli suffering. I do. When I was in Israel, a Palestinian in the Old City said to me with a bitter smile, "We are miserable. And so are the Israelis." It's partly for this reason that I think, and Henry Siegman thinks, that we need an imposed solution. These people hate each other too much. They have dehumanized each other.
That said, Israel is far more powerful than Hamas. That is of course what makes its attack so grotesque and heinous, and has caused Israel to suffer a p.r. disaster. Which is nothing like the suffering in Gaza.
Related posts:
- Amnesty International says Israeli soldiers used Gaza civilians as ‘human shields’
- ‘Human Rights Watch’ provides searing evidence of the targeting of civilians in Gaza
- Human Rights Groups Say Israel and Hamas Fail in Investigations
- Hamas terms for ‘long-term truce’ are similar to UN Human Rights Council’s
- (at last) the dark night of the soul for American Zionists
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Hate crimes in America! (Richard Witty, divert your eyes.)
Hamas Posters Posted at U.S. Synagogues
Why did you take so long to say this, and why not in response to my posts?
Don't forget to tell us, Phil, why you believe Hamas is using the civilians they represent as human shields. Is it a matter of any evidence, or just a feeling that "generally when there are competing narratives, both narratives are true"?
Well, Phil, since we are so fond of analogies, let's imagine what Americans would do if they were starved and locked into DC with a giant wall around it and had only the ingredients of a few homemade rockets at their disposal and no friends abroad who could do anything for them. How "stupid," "wrong," and "illegal" would it seem to those americans to actually shoot them over the walls of their prison to get someone to pay attention?
The "two narratives" approach is a non-starter for analysis and action. Let's keep the perpetrators separate from the victims.
Missing sentence in this post: "… and Israel has no problem incenerating those shields."
Delia,
I don't know who you are, but if you have more expertise and experience in Palestinian politics than Rashid Khalidi, please let us know what your credentials are. The motivations for the rocket attacks were and are clearly very complex, but when they began in 2005, they were part of an effort by Hamas to demonstrate its independence from the Fatah-dominated government led by Abu Mazen, who was trying to confiscate weapons and have one security apparatus and the rule of law in both Gaza and the West Bank. The rocket attacks started before the immoral, stupid and illegal blockade and the boycott imposed by the Israelis. The rocket attacks were "politically stupid" to those Palestinians who were hoping that, despite the odds, some kind of rapprochement would be possible between a relatively moderate Palestinian government and the Israelis. They were illegal because they violated the law that the Palestinian Authority was trying to use to govern the territories. And they were immoral because they were launched againstg civilians. The rockets had NOTHING to do with trying to make the world take notice of Palestinian suffering.
Phil,
What are you parents saying? I miss the more personal writing, where you wrestled with your identity. Yes there are hellish settler types who will heckle you at a rally. But how about the more complex relationships? Don't become a pundit Phil, you're too good for that.
Nice comment, palefire. (Richard?) I am glad, that I am non-Jewish and beyond my "German responsibility" do not have to choose between different categories. This is convenient since I am basically a very non-Political person.
Without any doubt this is a danger scenario, as all times of crisis, as it seems part of a larger transformation process.
Were I agree seem to agree with Phil is that silence is poison under these conditions. You can't stop people from thinking, from making sense of what they see. Mental shutters are not good in this context. Phil helps people to say what they feel. He doesn't demand that they censor their thought processes. It's actually opposite of what you think it my well be a process of mental catharsis, it relieves from pressure and anger, to be able to speak out.
I only post under my own name.
There is a transformation underway, and when Phil refers to it as a transformation of what "we" are (Jewish community), he is onto something.
It is NOT a transformation towards the melting pot though. There will always be a self-identified (not assimilated) Jewish community, that deserves self-governance.
Zionism.
The transformation among the liberal Jewish community is how to be Jewish, including how to support Israel being Jewish, but in a kind and accepting way.
It is NOT a renunciation of Jewish identity, nor of Zionism for those that choose to live in Israel.
D has a very good point.
I don't believe Hamas used Palestinians for human shields. I do believe they inevitably fight very close to Palestinian civilians – sometimes using their houses. But this isn't to stop Israel from attacking(which they know it won't) or for PR purposes, but simply practical reasons.
On the other hand there is evidence – and even a resolution from the UN I believe – that Israel does use Palestinians as human shields as they go about their business of killing civilians and destroying their homes and livelihoods.
I second D's question – what evidence do you offer for your claim, Phil?
And you didn't mention Israel's use of human shields. Why?
About the "human shields" claim–
Apart from the fact that Israel has so far not been able to provide a single shred of confirmable evidence, and apart from the fact that all observers on the ground have denied the claims, and apart from the fact that U.N and Amnesty reports both concluded that the same claims made during the Lebanon war were lies, just common sense should make one skeptical –
Hamas defines their task as the defense of the Palestinian people. They are willing to die doing it. (Anyone who opposes a Merkava tank with a handgun is prepared to die.) Is it likely that such a person would INTENTIONALLY case the death of another Palestinian?
Toadstone:
The rocket attacks started before the immoral, stupid and illegal blockade and the boycott imposed by the Israelis.
Colin:
Toadstone is, strictly speaking, correct. However, he is playing you for a fool with his choice of words, and with what he did not tell you.
The 'blockade and boycott' to which he refers is actually a deliberately calibrated starvation blockade. It is no mere boycott. Hamas and other Palestinian resistance groups did fire rockets at Israel before the starvation blockade. He neglects, no doubt an innocent error, to mention that the rocket attacks have followed, and are in response to, 41 years of Israeli occupation and COLONIZATION of their land. The COLONIES were withdrawn in 2005, the occupation never ended.
The starvation blockade is an intensification of a permanent (since 1967 until today) occupation regime, part of which is the maintenance of complete control over Gaza's borders, including its seaward boundary onto international waters. Not a person, washer, dryer, roll of toilet paper, ink pen, book, bottle of medicine, vial of vaccine, diaper, tin of baby food, jar of baby powder, Joule of electricity or liter of fuel moves into or out of Gaza without Israeli permission, EXCEPT through the tunnels into Egypt. Is it any wonder that smugglers are in business? Is it any wonder that Palestinians continued fighting after the successful ejection of the COLONIES from their land, to free themselves of the noose of Israeli occupation around their necks? The recent Israeli starvation blockade can be described as a tightening of that noose in the hope that Gazan Palestinians would "cry uncle" and agree to be good little helots. When it didn't, the bombs started to fall.
Also note that he describes the blockade as 'immoral, stupid and illegal' before going on to fill your eyes with nonsense. This is an attempt to build credibility for the lies that immediately follow, because he is, after all, against the blockade. One might call this 'pre-conditioning the patsy'. His post is a good case study for useful rhetorical techniques that are part of the classic disinformation toolkit.
just wondering… how is gaza supposed to protest their treatment? i mean, ideally?
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