Comments on: Another horrifying legacy of Iraq war: Now Israel gets to do war crimes http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 06:32:30 +0000 hourly 1 By: Amnon http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38889 Amnon Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38889 <p>No wonder Netanyahu's first unguarded public reaction to 9/11 was elation.</p> No wonder Netanyahu's first unguarded public reaction to 9/11 was elation.

]]> By: D. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38890 D. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38890 <p>Don't be put off by the title--<br /> <a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/2009/01/2009110112723260741.html" rel="nofollow">Who Will Save Israel from Itself?</a><br /> A useful Al Jazeera gathering of some of the principal Israeli talking points of the war. Would be good for Richard Witty.</p> <p><i>A revealing statistic from a joint Tel Aviv University-European University study: “Israeli violence has been responsible for ending 79 per cent of all lulls in violence since the outbreak of the second intifada, compared with only 8 per cent for Hamas and other Palestinian factions.“</i></p> Don't be put off by the title–
Who Will Save Israel from Itself?
A useful Al Jazeera gathering of some of the principal Israeli talking points of the war. Would be good for Richard Witty.

A revealing statistic from a joint Tel Aviv University-European University study: “Israeli violence has been responsible for ending 79 per cent of all lulls in violence since the outbreak of the second intifada, compared with only 8 per cent for Hamas and other Palestinian factions.“

]]> By: Todd http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38891 Todd Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38891 <p>It looks like the usual American Indian talk has lost its tread, so Iraq is the new justification for whatever Israel does. Let's see what convenient new heights of evil the neocons (or whatever they will call themselves) will spur the U.S. beast on to. If we use tactical nukes in Pakistan (as Obama suggested in debate), what will Israel do with that fact? The indispensible nation, huh!</p> It looks like the usual American Indian talk has lost its tread, so Iraq is the new justification for whatever Israel does. Let's see what convenient new heights of evil the neocons (or whatever they will call themselves) will spur the U.S. beast on to. If we use tactical nukes in Pakistan (as Obama suggested in debate), what will Israel do with that fact? The indispensible nation, huh!

]]> By: Jim Haygood http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38892 Jim Haygood Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38892 <p>Unless you are a hypocrite, you simply cannot have it both ways. Either Israel is doing a much better job than we did (or could do) and they are therefore being unfairly stigmatized, or Israel is a=somehow killing more people than they seem to be. Eventually there are facts, numbers, comparisons. To ignore this is to be a petty provincialist nursing your speacial pleading. Sorry, you "hobby horse." The problem is a lot of people on this blog and in the world in general pretend to care about dead Arabs when the Jews are doing the killing. But, really, is there anything LESS interesting than a dead Arab? Happens every day in every Arab country there is.</p> Unless you are a hypocrite, you simply cannot have it both ways. Either Israel is doing a much better job than we did (or could do) and they are therefore being unfairly stigmatized, or Israel is a=somehow killing more people than they seem to be. Eventually there are facts, numbers, comparisons. To ignore this is to be a petty provincialist nursing your speacial pleading. Sorry, you "hobby horse." The problem is a lot of people on this blog and in the world in general pretend to care about dead Arabs when the Jews are doing the killing. But, really, is there anything LESS interesting than a dead Arab? Happens every day in every Arab country there is.

]]> By: syvanen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38893 syvanen Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38893 <p>Yossi Alpher's point is valid. The US in Iraq has killed many more Arabs than the Israelis have killed in the last 50 years. Why are we upset? We didn't oppose the killing of 500000 babies in Iraq from our actions with the sanctions. Not to mention the other million deaths resulting from our invasion. The US kills clearly more Arabs than the US. Why do we get all bent of shape when the Israelis kill 1 per cent of this number? This is US policy.<br /> </p> Yossi Alpher's point is valid. The US in Iraq has killed many more Arabs than the Israelis have killed in the last 50 years. Why are we upset? We didn't oppose the killing of 500000 babies in Iraq from our actions with the sanctions. Not to mention the other million deaths resulting from our invasion. The US kills clearly more Arabs than the US. Why do we get all bent of shape when the Israelis kill 1 per cent of this number? This is US policy.

]]> By: Todd http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38894 Todd Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38894 <p>You are right, Syvanen. I just hate being forced to support it in either case. Also, it might be easier to influence my own government if Israel's interests weren't a concern. Who am I kidding? Israel and the United States are lost causes at this point. I'd emigrate to pretty much any place that would take me at this point.</p> You are right, Syvanen. I just hate being forced to support it in either case. Also, it might be easier to influence my own government if Israel's interests weren't a concern. Who am I kidding? Israel and the United States are lost causes at this point. I'd emigrate to pretty much any place that would take me at this point.

]]> By: delia http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38895 delia Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38895 <p>For "thought experiment" fans, here's Michael Neumann's (at CounterPunch):</p> <p>"But suppose a bunch of thugs install themselves, with their families, all around your farm. They have taken most of your land and resources; they're out for more. If this keeps up, you will starve, perhaps die. They are armed to the teeth and abundantly willing to use those arms. The only way you can defend yourself is to make them pay as heavy a price as possible for their siege and their constant encroachment on your living space. You're critically low on food and medical supplies, and the thugs cut off those supplies whenever they please. What's more, the only weapons available to you are indiscriminate, and will harm their families as well as the thugs themselves. You can use those weapons, even knowing they will kill innocents. You don't have to let the thugs destroy you, thereby sacrificing your innocents (including yourself) to spare theirs. Since innocents are under mortal threat in either case, you needn't prefer the attackers' to your own."</p> <p>Neumann has a point: It's the occupation, stupid.</p> For "thought experiment" fans, here's Michael Neumann's (at CounterPunch):

"But suppose a bunch of thugs install themselves, with their families, all around your farm. They have taken most of your land and resources; they're out for more. If this keeps up, you will starve, perhaps die. They are armed to the teeth and abundantly willing to use those arms. The only way you can defend yourself is to make them pay as heavy a price as possible for their siege and their constant encroachment on your living space. You're critically low on food and medical supplies, and the thugs cut off those supplies whenever they please. What's more, the only weapons available to you are indiscriminate, and will harm their families as well as the thugs themselves. You can use those weapons, even knowing they will kill innocents. You don't have to let the thugs destroy you, thereby sacrificing your innocents (including yourself) to spare theirs. Since innocents are under mortal threat in either case, you needn't prefer the attackers' to your own."

Neumann has a point: It's the occupation, stupid.

]]> By: Ana Sanchez http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38896 Ana Sanchez Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38896 <p>The war on Iraq was carried out for the benefit of Israel, pushed for by the neo-con's in our government who have more loyalty to Israel than to the U.S.A.<br /> All the atrocities committed there by our own forces are the result of the "Israelization" of our foreign policy. Therefore, Israel shares the blame for what we have done to Iraq. After all the killing that has gone on for so long, I wonder what the final price will be for having created a Jewish state in the Middle East.</p> The war on Iraq was carried out for the benefit of Israel, pushed for by the neo-con's in our government who have more loyalty to Israel than to the U.S.A.
All the atrocities committed there by our own forces are the result of the "Israelization" of our foreign policy. Therefore, Israel shares the blame for what we have done to Iraq. After all the killing that has gone on for so long, I wonder what the final price will be for having created a Jewish state in the Middle East.

]]> By: Alvy http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38897 Alvy Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38897 <p>Tom Friedman explains to NYT readers why collective punishment should be considered as an attempt on the part of Israel to educate its Arab neighbors about the horrors of war:</p> <p>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/opinion/14friedman.html</p> Tom Friedman explains to NYT readers why collective punishment should be considered as an attempt on the part of Israel to educate its Arab neighbors about the horrors of war:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/opinion/14friedman.html

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://mondoweiss.net/2009/01/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html/comment-page-1#comment-38898 Rowan Berkeley Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/01/13/iraq-and-the-new-morality-of-war.html#comment-38898 <p>Bitter Lemons is just another spook trawler site, full of hasbara and phony moderation.</p> Bitter Lemons is just another spook trawler site, full of hasbara and phony moderation.

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