Notwithstanding his smearing up and down the columns of the mainstream press a year and two back, Steve Walt is one of the most sober, calm, judicious voices in foreign policy that you will ever encounter--just what you'd expect of a Harvard dean and blogger for Foreign Policy. Here's a fine piece by him on why today's election will make very little difference in Israeli policy where it matters, and why Americans must begin coming to terms with the death of the two-state solution. (Horowitz begins that intellectual labor below.)
I say the Israel lobby needs to grapple Walt to its soul now with hoops of steel. He is for the two-state solution as the best alternative, but he predicts that when that fails, the U.S. will have to come out for an Israel that grants full rights to its Palestinian minority in all of historical Palestine. "Lord knows I have plenty of respect for the Israel lobby's ability to
shape U.S. foreign policy, but even AIPAC and the other heavyweight
institutions in the lobby would have great difficulty maintaining the
'special relationship' if Israel was an apartheid state," says Walt.
But my favorite passage here is Walt's reminder that all the handwringing over the two-state solution is coming from people who long opposed Palestinian self-determination, indeed did so for 50 years after the U.N. said the Palestinians had that right. A true disgrace. Walt [emphases mine]:
Today, invoking the "two-state" mantra allows moderates to sound reasonable and true to the ideals of democracy and self-determination; but it doesn't force them to actually do anything to bring that goal about. Indeed, defending the two-state solution has become a recipe for inaction, a fig leaf that leaders can utter at press conferences while ignoring the expanding settlements and road networks on the West Bank that are rendering it impossible. Outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is a perfect illustration: He has lately become an eloquent voice in favor of two states, warning of the perils that Israel will face if the two-state option is not adopted. Yet his own government continued to expand the settlements and undermine Palestinian moderates, thereby putting the solution Olmert supposedly favors further away than ever, and maybe even making it unworkable.
(Phil Weiss)
Walt never gets anything right. His book was awful.
There is simply no support in Israel for this silly "one state' solution.
Why on earth would Israelis who live great lives want dhimmi status in a Hamas run Iranian style state?
AIPAC like any other lobby has its pros and cons…but this bs propaganda that it opposes a 2 state solution doesn't seem to stick…
Time to test out another lie maybe? :-)
So, to summarize:
Option 1: Keep babbling about a two state solution, all the while expanding the settlements.
Option: 2: Negotiate for a one-state solution, which is "silly" as Israel will never agree to equal voting rights due to demographic trend.
Prognosis: Iran War diversion involving enmeshed USA, now bankrupt. Especially likely the more public opinion favors Palestinian rights.
Why on earth would Israelis who live great lives want dhimmi status in a Hamas run Iranian style state?
Why would Israelis want to live in a country with one-man one-vote and political representation for all? Lemme count the ways: 1. Basic human rights. 2. Basic civil rights. 3. Democratic principles. You know, apple pie issues, at least in the more civilized parts of the world.
If Israelis don't like it, they should have found a land with no people, like, say, somewhere in Siberia, or maybe an island atoll or something. You brainiacs, however, chose Palestine. Ye reap what ye sow.
"Why on earth would Israelis who live great lives want dhimmi status in a Hamas run Iranian style state?"
Hamas is Sunni. Iran is Shiite. Hamas accepts help from Iran because they offer it. It is an error to assume that they share identical political and social values. It is also an error to assume that a one-state solution would necessarily impose on Jews a secondary status. Lebanon, while not a model that could be emulated, at least serves as an example. Do you think that Palestinians want to live in a Hamas-run state? Hamas won the elections because Fatah are treasonous collaborators who are selling out their people for coin. Would you vote for traitors? It is a classic case of choosing the lesser of two evils. I have seen no evidence that Palestinians would prefer a theocratic rather than secular government.
" … but this bs propaganda that [AIPAC] opposes a 2 state solution doesn't seem to stick…"
It does appear that AIPAC may be on board with a two-state solution: 30 years too late. Get ready for one-man one-vote.
AIPAC and the other heavyweight institutions in the lobby would have great difficulty maintaining the 'special relationship' if Israel was an apartheid state
Israel has been an apartheid state since its foundation. What else would you call a place where people's ethnicity is marked on their government ID cards, and some of them are prohibited from owning or renting property in 90% of the country because of it? Or where people with the "right" ethnicity, who have no ancestral connection to the country whatsoever, can become instant citizens just by showing up, whereas people with the "wrong" ethnicity, who were born there, are prohibited from even entering, much less living there?
Newsflash: Israelis are the ones to have raised the alarms about infringing Muslim demographics. In other words, they alerted YOU to this trend–you are not telling them something they don't know.
There will NEVER be a one man one vote solution that includes the occupied territories. Either 2 states–or there is going to be a serious population shift towards Iraq. Call it the expansion of Palestinian occupation. :-)
"Israel has been an apartheid state since its foundation. What else would you call a place where people's ethnicity is marked on their government ID cards, and some of them are prohibited from owning or renting property in 90% of the country because of it? "
Instead of talking out of yer unwashed butt, why don't you actually visit Israel so you can get your facts straight? You sound really, really stupid in your ignorance about non-Muslim ethnics living there.
Seriously, take your next vacation there and stop parroting what your kool aid masters have taught you. You are embarrassing yourself.
BTW–did I hear your smarmy self discussing the segregated Muslim banlieus of France? No, that's right, I did not. Hypocrite.
Either 2 states–or there is going to be a serious population shift towards Iraq.
Wasn't there somebody else who used to advocate a serious population shift towards the east?
Oh, now I remember — it was the Nazis. I think they called it "Lebensraum" — or maybe it was "the Final Solution".
I think it's great that you and your zionazi friends can keep on learning from the example set by your ideological predecessors.
We must force Israel by way of Embargo to allow return of all refugees
Durable solution
What we are seeking is a durable solution, that will remove forever from the Middle East the prospect of terrible wars, intifadas and terror. If we had introduced this solution in, say 1965, we wouldn't have had 250.000 Palestinians and their leadership headed by Arafat fleeing the advancing Israelis in June 1967. They came to Jordan, where Arafat and his men got expelled in September 1970 (Black September)*. They came to Lebanon, where they seemingly had a negative influence on the civil war there. What is certain is that the civil war started in 1975, after they had arrived, – and their activities prompted Israel to invade in 1978 and again in 1982. In the latter more than 17.000 people died, most of them Palestinians. The israelis succeeded in expelleing Arafat to Tunis, but it was a Pyrrhus-victory, because he returned to Gaza City in Triumf in 1994, following the First Intifada and the Oslo peace process. But more alarmingly for the Israelis: While in Lebanon they encountered a formidable new foe, Hezbollah, set up in 1982 with the explicit purpose of driving the israelis out, which they succeeded doing in 2000.
So you see it is all wars and wars, and violence and blood, as long as this colony – with an inhabitable surface-area the size of Delaware and the adjacent Cecil County in Maryland** – exists.
Correcting historic mistake
Therefore let us correct this historic mistake, and by the means of an Embargo force Israel to allow all the Palestinian refugees and their descendants back to the land they are named after. Thereafter they shall have a vote – under the supervision of the International Community – as to how they wish to be governed.
Any Jew who wishes to stay put should be allowed to do so, just like the Whites in South Africa can stay after the end of Apartheid in 1994. This is the hallmark for us in the West: Freedom of Choice. And as a matter of course, Israelis should be allowed to choose between: "Do you wish to stay under Arab Majority-rule, or do you prefer to seek new pastures?"
My bet is that many Israelis will choose other pastures. The argument about Israel being necessary as a refuge for Jews, no longer holds. Anti-semitism has been neglicable since WW2. Ironically where it has surfaced has been in connection with Israels actions. Be it its defeat of the combined Arab armies in 1948 and expulsion of 800.000 Arabs, or for example the brief outpour amongst immigrants from North Africa in France in 2002 in close correlation to events in the occupied territories, or today in response to Israels brutal war in Gaza. What is more, the preferred destination of many Jews will be the land of Freedom itself, – The United States.
I have met many Americans who categorically resist the idea hosting millions of former israelis, and I can well appreciate the tough luck. But in my view this would be the natural result and a fair and just outcome, which also can be supported in Realist thinking. According to Realist thinking, what you do has consequences, which you must pay the price for. So when you have been underwriting whatever Israel has done for these many years, you must take the consequence. And indeed, if past experiences are anything to go by, these people will prove to be an asset for The United States.
________________
*)
Other unexpected consequences of evicting Palestinians in 1967
Greatest terrorcampaign the world has ever seen
But we now know the price for expelling the Palestinian leadership in this way. The incident was the start of the greatest terrorcampaign the world have ever seen, far outdoing recent hysteria about – for the most part – non existing terror. The world saw airplane-hijacking for the first time on a grand scale, and 11 israeli atletes were taken hostage at the Olympic Games in Munich in 1972 by the Palestinian group: "Black September". 'Only' two were killed by the hostage-takers – the remaining nine, five out of eight hostage-takers and one german police-officer were killed in the ensuing gun-fight, after two helicopters – provided under the promises of a free transfer – were attacked by an amateurish acting West-german police.
The motives for the Palestinians were as pointed out grief and anger of having been expelled from Palestine in 1967.
Further motives, that resonates among all Palestinians, includes anger, that Israel had taken Palestines place at the Olympics. Palestine had been a proud participant in the Olympic Games in the 20'ties and 30'ties, but from 1952 Israel took over its place (for the record: There were no Olympic Games in 1940 and 1944, and in 1948 the parties were at war)
Palestinian terror ended with prospect of state
In the middle of the Eighties, Palestinian International terror ended, one of the last spats being the hijacking on October 7, 1985 of "Archille Lauro" (link to en.wikipedia.org
by members of The Palestine Liberationfront (PLF). With the onset of the First Intifada and the subsequent beginning of talks between the parties, resulting in the establishment of the Palestinian Authority and the return of Arafat in 1994, these International terror-incidents had all ended, showing in a Nutshell that terror is political motivated, and can be remedied by political negociations – and it shows the Peril for the rest of the world, when the Palestinian leadership are out.
_____________
**) Documentation
……….Area……….Population
Israel: 20,770 km²……7,282,000
Negev*: ~ 13,000 km²…….554,000
Israel
minus
Negev: ~7,770 km²…….6,728,000
Delaware: 6,446 km²
Cecil County, Maryland: 1,083 km²
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The US is going to have a hard time backing off a two state solution…I don't see how that happens after every president has sworn himself to that solution…while not actually doing anything about it.
The Israelis may or may not go for a one state solution…they may figure that they could turn Palestine into Israel and run an aparthid state and no one would do anything about it.
But….what will most likley happen is things will continue as usual…more settlements, more provoke, attack,confiscate Palestine land…and on and on.
Until Israel tries to implement a final solution on the Palestines…which they will do as they have been doing, a bit at a time…attack and terrorize, kill and starve them out. Maybe they will even speed it up figuring the world is already condemning them so why not just keep on with those 'facts on the ground' and the same old spin and holocaust rationale until they accomplish their goal.
Israel and US zionist are midget nazis. Even if they got Palestine they wouldn't stop there, there would always be another war,conquest, whatever,their greed would go right on. Eventually the Arabs or the West will have to deal with Israel and put it down.
It's funny how the jews talk the Protocals of the Elders hoax, because when you listen to some of them and read thru their papers and orgs like the Jerusalem Summit gang that is exactly what they sound like…nutcases that think jews should rule the world, and Jerusalem and therefore Israel should be the center of authority and power in the universe due to the fact that they are jews, and only jews are smart and moral enough to rule earth. Bat shit crazy people on their way to getting wiped out again.
Sorry, American, but Israel will not go for a one state option. They will insist that the new Arab nation accept the heavily Arab populated protions of Israel.
As for Jews ruling the world, while it would be more intelligently run, there is no actual Jewish organization that desires such.
Perhaps you were confusing the fraudulent protocols with the actual Koran?
JULIAN, FROM ABOVE: "Why on earth would Israelis who live great lives…"
THE WORDS OF A FORMER ISRAELI: "Israelis have never been particularly kind to each other. It’s one of the reasons I left actually. In my late twenties I started to grow weary of the unkind, harsh and unforgiving atmosphere around me. It was a tough place to live in not because of our ‘enemies’ but because of how people treated one another. You would believe that we were all enemies rather than people who have some kind of a shared heritage. The only thing that could unite people and temporarily brought out more kindness and a sense of cooperation was a feeling of being under collective threat, and in particular a ‘good wholesome war’." – Avigail Abarbanel
SOURCE – link to avigailabarbanel.me.uk
RE: THE WORDS OF A FORMER ISRAELI (Avigail Abarbane)
MORE DIRECT LINK TO SOURCE – link to avigailabarbanel.me.uk