Comments on: Avishai reluctantly offers the Nazi analogy http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:03:10 +0000 hourly 1 By: David Malcolm http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33596 David Malcolm Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33596 <p>The upcoming election may seal the deal on the Nazification of the Israeli people. If there's a governing coalition between the Likud and the far-right only, who's to stop them from engaging in a systemic ethnic cleansing of the West Bank, and turning Gaza into a genuine concentration camp?</p> The upcoming election may seal the deal on the Nazification of the Israeli people. If there's a governing coalition between the Likud and the far-right only, who's to stop them from engaging in a systemic ethnic cleansing of the West Bank, and turning Gaza into a genuine concentration camp?

]]> By: David F. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33597 David F. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33597 <p>Unfortunately, the term "Nazi" has become disconnected from history in the same manner as the Holocaust. In popular usage, it simply means "total evil."</p> <p>I avoid making such analogies, not because they are not there--(ideologically, Zionism and National Socialism are simply mirror images of the same vaguely spiritualized 19th century racial nationalism)--but because the term is too morally loaded.</p> <p>It usually doesn't help if I explain that I actually admire many aspects of National Socialism...and Zionism...;)</p> Unfortunately, the term "Nazi" has become disconnected from history in the same manner as the Holocaust. In popular usage, it simply means "total evil."

I avoid making such analogies, not because they are not there–(ideologically, Zionism and National Socialism are simply mirror images of the same vaguely spiritualized 19th century racial nationalism)–but because the term is too morally loaded.

It usually doesn't help if I explain that I actually admire many aspects of National Socialism…and Zionism…;)

]]> By: Thom http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33598 Thom Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33598 <p>Wow, so is any country that supports attacks on people that fire thousands of rockets at them over an extended period run by "Nazis" or just Israel?</p> <p>How about the U.S. support for WWII after Pearl Harbor? Was that pretty high? I forget, was it the U.S., or the Germans that were the Nazis in WWII?</p> <p>We killed half a million Japanese civilians and I don't know how many German civilians in WWII, which was very popular in the U.S.A. So I guess by this idiot's logic, the Americans were Nazis in WWII.</p> <p>Fact is, the war was popular for the same reason that wars against people who are attacking civilians are always popular with the civilians being attacked. BECAUSE THEY ARE ATTACKING YOUR CIVILIANS!</p> <p>This Nazi analogy is pure, unadulterated bullshit.</p> Wow, so is any country that supports attacks on people that fire thousands of rockets at them over an extended period run by "Nazis" or just Israel?

How about the U.S. support for WWII after Pearl Harbor? Was that pretty high? I forget, was it the U.S., or the Germans that were the Nazis in WWII?

We killed half a million Japanese civilians and I don't know how many German civilians in WWII, which was very popular in the U.S.A. So I guess by this idiot's logic, the Americans were Nazis in WWII.

Fact is, the war was popular for the same reason that wars against people who are attacking civilians are always popular with the civilians being attacked. BECAUSE THEY ARE ATTACKING YOUR CIVILIANS!

This Nazi analogy is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

]]> By: roy belmont http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33599 roy belmont Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33599 <p>A not so often recognized problem with the Nazi metaphor is the completeness of it as an historical event, its wholeness as narrative - the way it begins, and has its awful middle, and then it ends, in crushing defeat, with the resumption of the larger moral narrative from which it had broken away. <br /> It's a comforting tale in a classic form - here's the evil dragon, here's what it did, how everyone suffered, and here's how the evil dragon was killed.<br /> From within the Nazi <i>zeitgeist</i> the future didn't hold a broken fatherland and an impoverished, shamed <i>Volk</i>, but an empire - the Reich triumphant. <br /> The danger for those who oppose them is the illusion that these schemes will always fail simply because they lack moral truth. <br /> The men and women - and the spirits - guiding and running current Israeli policies don't look ahead to moral retribution and karmic reversal, they see the Kingdom of God on earth being born. <br /> This narrative is deeper rooted than the Aryan wet dreams of Goebbels and Himmler, it goes way, way back. <br /> It may be a serious mistake to confront the immorality and inhuman violence of the IDF and its leaders and decision-makers as purely geo-political misdeeds, the way it was a mistake to treat the fundamentalist Christian power that the neo-cons harnessed to put GWBush in the White House as simply delusional and superstitious. <br /> Yes it is that, but it's a lot more too. And some of what it is is basic, evolutionary, biological, coming out of a deeper reality, where human moral distinctions can seem like nothing more than shallow sentiment.<br /> The tide's turning, and not least because so many articulate voices are being raised, so much intellectual strength is being brought to bear. <br /> Still it's very late, and a lot of blood's on the ground. It's clear there are those who would blow us and the world itself all to hell rather than admit they've gone too far - force alone won't stop them. <br /> We have to face them down with all the truth we have, and that means bringing our own hearts and minds up out of illusion.</p> A not so often recognized problem with the Nazi metaphor is the completeness of it as an historical event, its wholeness as narrative – the way it begins, and has its awful middle, and then it ends, in crushing defeat, with the resumption of the larger moral narrative from which it had broken away.
It's a comforting tale in a classic form – here's the evil dragon, here's what it did, how everyone suffered, and here's how the evil dragon was killed.
From within the Nazi zeitgeist the future didn't hold a broken fatherland and an impoverished, shamed Volk, but an empire – the Reich triumphant.
The danger for those who oppose them is the illusion that these schemes will always fail simply because they lack moral truth.
The men and women – and the spirits – guiding and running current Israeli policies don't look ahead to moral retribution and karmic reversal, they see the Kingdom of God on earth being born.
This narrative is deeper rooted than the Aryan wet dreams of Goebbels and Himmler, it goes way, way back.
It may be a serious mistake to confront the immorality and inhuman violence of the IDF and its leaders and decision-makers as purely geo-political misdeeds, the way it was a mistake to treat the fundamentalist Christian power that the neo-cons harnessed to put GWBush in the White House as simply delusional and superstitious.
Yes it is that, but it's a lot more too. And some of what it is is basic, evolutionary, biological, coming out of a deeper reality, where human moral distinctions can seem like nothing more than shallow sentiment.
The tide's turning, and not least because so many articulate voices are being raised, so much intellectual strength is being brought to bear.
Still it's very late, and a lot of blood's on the ground. It's clear there are those who would blow us and the world itself all to hell rather than admit they've gone too far – force alone won't stop them.
We have to face them down with all the truth we have, and that means bringing our own hearts and minds up out of illusion.

]]> By: Rowan http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33600 Rowan Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33600 <p>Of course they're fucking Nazis.</p> Of course they're fucking Nazis.

]]> By: DICKERSON3870 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33601 DICKERSON3870 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33601 <p>FROM ROY BELMONT, ABOVE: "...it was a mistake to treat the fundamentalist Christian power that the neo-cons harnessed to put GWBush in the White House as simply delusional and superstitious..."</p> <p><br /> FROM "THE FUNDAMENTALIST" (02/04/09) - by Sarah Posner @ prospect.org</p> <p>5. Christian Zionists Target Christian Campuses.</p> <p>As part of its effort to recruit college students to Christian Zionism, John Hagee's Christians United for Israel (CUFI) this week held an Arab-Israeli Conflict Forum at the late Jerry Falwell's Liberty University. On hand was a representative of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), and Randall J. Price, Executive Director of the University's Center for Judaic Studies. Price is also the executive director of World of the Bible Ministries, which publishes and promotes an array of books and other resources prophesying the end of days and the Second Coming of Christ -- a scenario in which, as we all know, the Jews do not fare well. AIPAC must be very glad that CUFI and Liberty University are looking out for the Jews.</p> <p>SOURCE - http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_fundamentalist_020409</p> FROM ROY BELMONT, ABOVE: "…it was a mistake to treat the fundamentalist Christian power that the neo-cons harnessed to put GWBush in the White House as simply delusional and superstitious…"

FROM "THE FUNDAMENTALIST" (02/04/09) – by Sarah Posner @ prospect.org

5. Christian Zionists Target Christian Campuses.

As part of its effort to recruit college students to Christian Zionism, John Hagee's Christians United for Israel (CUFI) this week held an Arab-Israeli Conflict Forum at the late Jerry Falwell's Liberty University. On hand was a representative of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), and Randall J. Price, Executive Director of the University's Center for Judaic Studies. Price is also the executive director of World of the Bible Ministries, which publishes and promotes an array of books and other resources prophesying the end of days and the Second Coming of Christ — a scenario in which, as we all know, the Jews do not fare well. AIPAC must be very glad that CUFI and Liberty University are looking out for the Jews.

SOURCE – http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33602 <p>The reason I am so rude is that I regard most of the readership here as having no higher ambition than to become comfortable well-paid collaborators with the supposedly oncoming global jewish nazi regime (providing they are allowed to give it a nice neo-liberal paint job first, to avoid misunderstanding)....</p> <p>But it may help to point out that none of you appear to have any idea what politics is about. It is not about 'identities': "I am a Jew", I am a woman," "I am a Black", I am a gay," I am a Christian," bla bla bla.</p> <p>Politics is about <b>processes</b>. And the global zionist <b>process</b>, of perpetual war, putsch, purge, leveraged buy-out, and bankruptcy, combines the worst features of nazism with the worst features of stalinism.</p> The reason I am so rude is that I regard most of the readership here as having no higher ambition than to become comfortable well-paid collaborators with the supposedly oncoming global jewish nazi regime (providing they are allowed to give it a nice neo-liberal paint job first, to avoid misunderstanding)….

But it may help to point out that none of you appear to have any idea what politics is about. It is not about 'identities': "I am a Jew", I am a woman," "I am a Black", I am a gay," I am a Christian," bla bla bla.

Politics is about processes. And the global zionist process, of perpetual war, putsch, purge, leveraged buy-out, and bankruptcy, combines the worst features of nazism with the worst features of stalinism.

]]> By: DICKERSON3870 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33603 DICKERSON3870 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33603 <p>FROM ROY BELMONT, ABOVE: "...it was a mistake to treat the fundamentalist Christian power that the neo-cons harnessed to put GWBush in the White House as simply delusional and superstitious..."</p> <p>EXCERPT FROM "Mike Evans Attacks Jimmy Carter, Opposes a Two-State Solution & Wants to Bomb Iran" - by Bill Berkowitz, 02/05/09</p> <p>These days, Evans has honed in on another target: former President Jimmy Carter. Evans has written a new book titled "Jimmy Carter: The Liberal Left and World Chaos," a sharp rebuke of President Carter's efforts at working for a peaceful solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict. </p> <p>"This book helps you connect the dots and understand how we have come to this crisis," states the promotional materials at the book's Web site. "More importantly, the book tells you how it can be resolved. It contains information that has never been revealed by diplomatic sources worldwide. It divulges the agenda of Jimmy Carter and the Liberal Left to sell America and the Bible Land to the highest bidder." </p> <p>In a profile of Evans, Right Web, a project of Political Research Associates, pointed out that in a 2007 article for his own online publication, Jerusalem World News, Evans criticized efforts aimed at a two-state solution: </p> <p>"The acceptance of this vile plan would turn Israel into a living hell. The Jewish people would be forced to live next door to a state controlled by Islamic fanatics such as Hamas. I am reminded over and over of the scripture in Psalm 83:2-5: For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; and those who hate You have lifted up their head. They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, and consulted together against Your sheltered ones. They have said, 'Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, that the name of Israel may be remembered no more.' For they have consulted together with one consent; they form a confederacy against You.".....</p> <p>ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/20144</p> <p>MIKE EVAN'S WEBSITE - http://jerusalemprayerteam.org/</p> FROM ROY BELMONT, ABOVE: "…it was a mistake to treat the fundamentalist Christian power that the neo-cons harnessed to put GWBush in the White House as simply delusional and superstitious…"

EXCERPT FROM "Mike Evans Attacks Jimmy Carter, Opposes a Two-State Solution & Wants to Bomb Iran" – by Bill Berkowitz, 02/05/09

These days, Evans has honed in on another target: former President Jimmy Carter. Evans has written a new book titled "Jimmy Carter: The Liberal Left and World Chaos," a sharp rebuke of President Carter's efforts at working for a peaceful solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict.

"This book helps you connect the dots and understand how we have come to this crisis," states the promotional materials at the book's Web site. "More importantly, the book tells you how it can be resolved. It contains information that has never been revealed by diplomatic sources worldwide. It divulges the agenda of Jimmy Carter and the Liberal Left to sell America and the Bible Land to the highest bidder."

In a profile of Evans, Right Web, a project of Political Research Associates, pointed out that in a 2007 article for his own online publication, Jerusalem World News, Evans criticized efforts aimed at a two-state solution:

"The acceptance of this vile plan would turn Israel into a living hell. The Jewish people would be forced to live next door to a state controlled by Islamic fanatics such as Hamas. I am reminded over and over of the scripture in Psalm 83:2-5: For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; and those who hate You have lifted up their head. They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, and consulted together against Your sheltered ones. They have said, 'Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, that the name of Israel may be remembered no more.' For they have consulted together with one consent; they form a confederacy against You."…..

ENTIRE ARTICLE –

“>link to jerusalemprayerteam.org

]]> By: Rowan http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33604 Rowan Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33604 <p>With the US effectively giving up on confronting Iran, the entire burden for blocking Iran’s quest for nuclear weapons falls on Israel’s shoulders. Given the US-led international community’s decision not to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, it is clear that in the coming months Israel will need to do two things. It will need to put the nations of the world on notice that they cannot expect us to stand by idly as they welcome Iran into the nuclear club. And Israel will need to prepare plans to strike Iran’s nuclear installations without America’s support.</p> <p>- from Israel’s Fateful Elections<br /> Caroline Glick, JPost, Feb 6 2009<br /> </p> With the US effectively giving up on confronting Iran, the entire burden for blocking Iran’s quest for nuclear weapons falls on Israel’s shoulders. Given the US-led international community’s decision not to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, it is clear that in the coming months Israel will need to do two things. It will need to put the nations of the world on notice that they cannot expect us to stand by idly as they welcome Iran into the nuclear club. And Israel will need to prepare plans to strike Iran’s nuclear installations without America’s support.

- from Israel’s Fateful Elections
Caroline Glick, JPost, Feb 6 2009

]]> By: DICKERSON3870 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html/comment-page-1#comment-33605 DICKERSON3870 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/06/bernard-avishai-becomes-more-and-more-despairing-and-brave-about-the-future-of-israel-his-latest-makes-the-nazi-analogy-h.html#comment-33605 <p>FROM ROY BELMONT, ABOVE: "...it was a mistake to treat the fundamentalist Christian power that the neo-cons harnessed to put GWBush in the White House as simply delusional and superstitious..."</p> <p><br /> Project Pterosaur<br /> By Dr. Richard Paley & Fellowship University Theobiology Department Staff</p> <p>About Project Pterosaur</p> <p>Mission Statement</p> <p>The goal of Project Pterosaur is to mount an expedition to locate and bring back to the United States living specimens of pterosaurs or their fertile eggs, which will be displayed in a Pterosaur Rookery that will be the center piece of the planned Fellowship Creation Science Museum and Research Institute(FCSMRI). Furthermore, the rookery facility will establish a breeding colony of pterosaurs in order to produce specimens that could then be put on display by other regional institutions or church groups.</p> <p>By doing all this, we hope to accomplish three goals:</p> <p>*Support Creation Theory by showing the incorrectness of the philosophy of Evolutionism.<br /> *Educate the population about Creation Science.<br /> *Create excitement about Creation and the Bible in the public.</p> <p>WEBSITE (DONATIONS WELCOME)-<br /> http://objectiveministries.org/creation/projectpterosaur.html</p> FROM ROY BELMONT, ABOVE: "…it was a mistake to treat the fundamentalist Christian power that the neo-cons harnessed to put GWBush in the White House as simply delusional and superstitious…"

Project Pterosaur
By Dr. Richard Paley & Fellowship University Theobiology Department Staff

About Project Pterosaur

Mission Statement

The goal of Project Pterosaur is to mount an expedition to locate and bring back to the United States living specimens of pterosaurs or their fertile eggs, which will be displayed in a Pterosaur Rookery that will be the center piece of the planned Fellowship Creation Science Museum and Research Institute(FCSMRI). Furthermore, the rookery facility will establish a breeding colony of pterosaurs in order to produce specimens that could then be put on display by other regional institutions or church groups.

By doing all this, we hope to accomplish three goals:

*Support Creation Theory by showing the incorrectness of the philosophy of Evolutionism.
*Educate the population about Creation Science.
*Create excitement about Creation and the Bible in the public.

WEBSITE (DONATIONS WELCOME)-