Alan Dershowitz has responded angrily to the Hampshire College divestment initative for singling out Israel:
divestment campaign applies to Israel and Israel alone. Hampshire will
continue to deal with companies that supply Iran, Saudi Arabia, China,
Cuba, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Libya, Syria, Sudan, Belarus and other
brutal dictatorships around the world that routinely murder civilians,
torture and imprison dissenters, deny educational opportunities to
women, imprison gays and repress speech. Indeed many of those who
support divestiture against Israel actively support these repressive
regimes. This divestment campaign has absolutely nothing to do with
human rights. It is motivated purely by hatred for the Jewish state.
A few responses: 1. The campaign is aimed not at Israel proper (wherever the borders are!) but at the Occupied Territories and apartheid conditions there, which are based on religious/ethnic differences. American companies should have nothing to do with this type of discrimination. There Palestinians are denied so many basic rights that two leaders of the Palestinian community last week compared the conditions to slavery.
2, This site was certainly for actions against China over its treatment of Tibet and other ethnic minorities. I wonder how much business we're doing in North Korea and the Sudan. That said, I'm sure the Hampshire students would consider measures aimed at other countries.
3, The specialness of Israel is that the U.S. is joined at the hip to Israel, which is practicing apartheid in the Occupied Territories; and this is destroying my country's image across the Arab and Muslim world. The aim of a divestment campaign is not strictly the targeted country, but American policy. This was the goal of the South Africa campaign. It forced institutions in the U.S. to question South African policy, and ultimately for the U.S. government to pressure South Africa. This is the essential difference between Israel and other countries. This injustice has a special character. Our actions in Zimbabwe are not hurting the democracy effort there. And Africans are not flying planes into our buildings because of our Zimbabwe policy.
Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Cuba, North Korea, Libya, Syria, and Belarus are not currently bombing, maiming, and killing citizens within their territories.
murder civilians, torture and imprison dissenters, deny educational opportunities to women, [and men] … and repress speech
You mean, Mr. Dershowitz, what Israel does to Palestine?
'The specialness of Israel is that the U.S. is joined at the hip to Israel.'
Let's be more explicit. None of the regimes cited by Dershowitz are subsidized by the United States. Indeed, half a dozen of them are the targets of U.S. sanctions.
Israel uniquely receives billions a year in U.S. cash subsidies, military aid, and loan guarantees, making the U.S. an accomplice in Israel's brutal occupation.
Dershowitz is of course perfectly aware of this bright-line distinction, as he glibly equates an apple to a bushel of potatoes. Like the scorpion who stung the frog ferrying him across the river, causing both to drown, Dershowitz just can't help resorting to impudent sophistry — it's his ethnic nature.
http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html
Not to mention the forever repeated "special relationship" both the US government and Israeli government
brag about all the time, including its enormous chunk of the total US foreign aid annually, the only portion given sans conditions, up front, without interest, and further supported by a matrix of other special deals, such as guaranteed oil, extra loan guarantees, etc–very special indeed considering we
do not eve have a technical ally treaty with Israel. Just barely know memos, promises, such as Shrub
gave, and our congress constantly gives via resolutions to protect Israel's "self defense" activity–that is
whatever Israel says it is.
One of Dershowitz's examples, Syria, is the target of harsh sanctions authored by our own Rep. Eliot Engel (D-Israel).
So it's OK for zionist KongressKlowns to harness the immense machinery of government to boycott Israel's neighbors — but not OK for ordinary citizens to pursue the far milder remedy of divestment against Israel's far worse behavior?
Once again, we perceive why 'chutzpah' is a Hebrew word which is untranslatable into English. 'Brazen effrontery' doesn't begin to capture the contempt, the sardonic laughter, the nasty curl of the Dershowitzian lip …
The same question could have been raised (imagine it was, in fact) by S. African during apartheid. Brutal dictatorships were oppressing and killing in Argentina, El Salvador and Guatemala during that time. Sanctions against those countries never got much traction. So Allan's question is actually an interesting one, though it is not why he is raising it, of course (any argument to defend Zionism, merit of said argument not important!).
But to given an answer. Organizing a boycotts and divestment is extremely difficult; it requires a sophisticated political organization with international reach. Domestic opponents of the regimes of Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Cuba, North Korea, Libya, Syria, and Belarus simply lack the sophistication. In retrospect, we can see that the ANC gained that sophistication and international reach. Much to Israel's distress, it looks like the Palestinians, after all of these decades, are gaining in sufficient political skills to do the same.
And there is nothing like killing 420 Gazan children on live international TV to give that project a big boost. My life is so unfair for Israel these days, everything they do or say now just becomes more gasoline on the fire of Palestinian self determination.
should read "My oh my, life"
Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Cuba, North Korea, Libya, Syria, and Belarus are not currently bombing, maiming, and killing citizens within their territories.
neither is Israel.
But China is occupying Tibet and they are supressing the autonomy of Muslims.
LOL
weak, man, weak–go back to your pablum old one
"And Africans are not flying planes into our buildings because of our Zimbabwe policy."
This is Phil Weiss at his best! I feel for the Palestinians and wish them well. I also wish the Israelis well.
BUT … our support of Israel was one of the reasons our nation was attacked on 9/11. We must change our ME policy.
'Domestic opponents of the regimes of Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Cuba, North Korea, Libya, Syria, and Belarus simply lack the sophistication.'
I know what you mean, but let's recall that ONE opponent of Iran — AIPAC — is extremely sophisticated. Thanks to AIPAC's efforts throughout this decade, the U.S. has pressured Europe through Fincen to force Bank Melli's overseas branches out of business, as well as squeeze other Iranian banks. In commercial terms, this is going for the jugular — directly seeking to cut off trade, settlements, and cash flow.
By contrast, divestment is a largely symbolic protest. For every institution which divests itself of shares in companies which profit from the Palestinian occupation, there's another non-ideological buyer waiting to scoop them up. Arguably divestors hurt only themselves. Sales of stock have no direct effect on the stock issuer at all. Only if the company decides to make a secondary offering might it conceivably be affected, marginally, by a divestment campaign. But nobody's doing secondary offerings under current market conditions.
Dershowitz criticizes the divestment campaign's puny water pistols, while ignoring AIPAC's co-optation of Congress to go after Iranian banks with Usgov's big guns.
Why DOES AIPAC blast away at Iran so obsessively, anyway? Could the reason be the one he ascribes to Israel's opponents — hate, hate, hate?
If Dersh has something against all those states he names, he should start a divestment campaign against them. I would support it. But this tired strategy of changing the subject–which worked against the divestment campaign in the UK–is just not cutting it anymore.
Dersh is not a stupid man–in fact, he's extremely intelligent, and he knows what's what. He'll come around eventually, but he has to give this fight his best shot. His ego is too invested in it not to.
This is most interesting. It gives some scope of what is involved here.
A lot of misinformation and disinformation here. Mass. College Denies Israel Divestment:
"The board of trustees of Hampshire College approved a proposal on Feb. 7 to divest school assets from an investment fund found to include 200 companies that violated the college's standards for social responsibility."
[...]
"… school officials say their decision had nothing to do with Israel. Three of the six companies [targeted by SJP] failed a screen for socially responsible investing based on their sales of military equipment, employee safety record and other violations, according to a spokesman. Two of the companies named by the student group — Motorola and Terex — passed the screen, the spokesman said. A sixth company, United Technologies, was unlisted.
"Divestment efforts and academic boycotts of Israel have largely failed, in the United States and abroad. A divestment push at Harvard University drew a rebuke from Lawrence Summers, then the university president and current Obama administration official. Summers said efforts to single out Israel for divestment are anti-Semitic 'in their effect, if not their intent.'
"In May, the United Methodist Church rejected five separate petitions calling for divestment from companies that support or profit from the Israeli occupation, a move that drew praise from Jewish organizations."
So two-hundred companies are in the process of being divested, three of which only are among the six targeted by SJP. Of the other three targeted by SJP, one was not listed and the other two were not found to be a problem. Companies, not countries, were targeted.
If the "American" Jewish Zionists like Dershowitz don't want Israel to be singled out, they should shut down the Israel lobby and finance the Jewish state out of their own pockets instead of making Americans underwrite it. They've got the money. But they won't, because they're cheapskates, and because it's their nature to pass even the costs of their chicanerous hobbies on to honest, hardworking folks. They gain more sadistic, anti-gentilic satisfaction that way.
It must always be remembered that Jewish Zionists despise gentiles with every essence of their being, and by ripping off the American public and implicating the US in Israel's malevolence, they are accomplishing multiple items on their anti-gentilic list at once. I bet Dershowitz was cheering on 9/11 right along with those five dancing Jewish Zionist Mossad spies caught photographing "the event" from a strategic location set up well before the planes hit the towers.
What ever happened to those terrorists, anyway? Was Dershowitz able to lawyer them back to Israel the same way he helped get OJ Simpson off for murder? Whoops, my bad. That was Jewish Zionist Michael Mukasey who saw to it that they were whisked back to Israel free and clear. It's hard to keep these treasonous Jewish-"American" Zionist lawyers straight.
Gene's reference (above)is a must read–yet one more arena where AIPAC has consistently worked against the
best interests of the USA to support Israel. Quite amazing, complete with the usual handling by traitorous spies
in our government walls.
"Dersh is not a stupid man. . . He'll come around eventually."
Good luck with that.
But China is occupying Tibet and they are supressing the autonomy of Muslims.
Posted by: Chris Berel
What a bufoon. Do you have that listed under 'Imam, the Dalai Lama'?
Ed, we don't hate gentiles, nobody that i know anyway. But we hate you Ed. Still waiting with my .50 caliber Israeli made Desert Eagle. But then again maybe they will still find you dead in a snowbank clutching a swastika.,
I love how the goobs ignored Marty Belhimer's post. He just kicked your donkey butts something bad with some compelling facts. lol!
Suzanne, all the "compelling facts" in the world can't override the only relevant fact: Washington is underwriting Zionism, and thus immorally implicating all Americans in Zionism's actions. This alone, withstanding every other fact, makes the current state of affairs intolerable. If your own loyalties put America above Zionism, you too will agree that this is intolerable. If you put Israel above America, you will continue to lawyer the issue to the detriment of America and Americans, as do Dershowitz and all the other Zionist Israeli loyalists. Now is the time to choose, because soon you won't enjoy the luxury of choice. A traitor will be branded a traitor, and treated as such.
Sword of Gideonthepoint wrote:
"Ed, we don't hate gentiles, nobody that i know anyway."
Well I have a question somewhat related to this, Sword. I just finished reading Stephen Bloom's book "Postville" about the fundamentalist jewish folks who moved into that Iowa town buying and running a meat processing plant. And as Bloom describes it while it wasn't hatred so much there certainly was a simply tremendous amount of disdain for gentiles amongst those fundamentalist people. Their leader even openly declared himself a racist and jewish supremacist.
Now I understand that these folks were fundamentalists and most it seems from one small sect alone even and etc., and that it's stupid to impute the breadth or depth of their feelings to all or even any jews. But Bloom, who is jewish himself, does say he saw echoes of same in the decidedly non-fundamentalist jewish background he came from, with casual references made about "goyishe kops" (gentile—and thus stupid or gullible—heads) and etc., etc., right? And I think Phil Weiss might have mentioned seeing something like this in the mileu he grew up in too, but I'm not sure.
Okay, so anyway we are told generally that we ought to trust jewish folks when they sense anti-semitism in gentiles and there's some logic there. Presumably that kind of thing is easier to spot if you're a member of the victim class.
But why then should we discount someone like Ed who says there is a tremendous degree of anti-gentile feeling in mainstream jewish thinking? People are people, right? It's only reasonable to believe that if racism or whatever you want to call it has found so many homes in mainstream gentile thinking that it has found a lot of homes in mainstream jewish thinking too, no?
I chose to have Ed tarred and feathered at the next rally. The vast majority of American's want to aid Israel. It is in our moral self interest.
As Ed refuses to obey the will of the majority of the American people, it seems that he is a traitor and must be treated as such. He will be loved by Phil's Phools and treated as a pariah by the educated.
Sword of Gideonthepoint wrote:
"Ed, we don't hate gentiles, nobody that i know anyway."
A question: I just read a book entitled "Postville" by a guy named Stephen Bloom about some fundamentalist jewish folks who moved into an Iowa town after starting up a kosher butchering operation. And if not hatred then clearly they had an enormous disdain for gentiles generally. (In fact the head Fundamentalist guy there openly said he was a racist and a jewish supremacist.) And while of course you can't senselessly extrapolate these sentiments to the mainstream jewish community, Bloom himself—a jewish fellow—says he saw some distinct similarities with this kind of sentiment in the decidedly more mainstream jewish mileu he was brought up in on the East Coast. Casual references to "goyishe kops" (gentile—and thus stupid—heads), and etc. And I think that Phil Weiss himself may have mentioned observing something similar where he grew up, and at any rate there sure seem to be a lot of jewish Fundamentalists of one sort or another in those settlements in the occupied territories of course.
So anyway we are, with some reason, told that we are to take as valid the perception of many jews that there still exists lots of anti-semitism in mainstream gentile thinking. And there is some logic there because of course you are more likely to notice this kind of thing if you are a potential member of the victim class.
But why then are we to dismiss the perceptions of people like Ed who perceive lots of anti-gentile sentiment in mainstream jewish thinking or amongst people like Dershowitz? People are people, after all. If racism or hatred or whatever you want to call it has found so comfortable a home and/or to such a degree in mainstream gentile thinking, then why doesn't it make sense that it's found a similar comfortable, deep home in mainstream jewish thinking about gentiles?
But China is occupying Tibet and they are supressing the autonomy of Muslims.
Posted by: Chris Berel
What a bufoon. Do you have that listed under 'Imam, the Dalai Lama'?
syvanen
Can't you keep two thoughts in your head at the same time? China is involved in supressing two movements. One is the occupation of Tibet, the other is the oppression of Muslims:
China has executed an alleged Muslim separatist with a bullet through the heart, prompting condemnation from human rights groups who say the convict's trial was flawed and his confession coerced.
Ismail Semed, an Uighur from China's far western region of Xinjiang, was sentenced to death in 2005 after being found guilty of trying to "split the motherland" and of possession of firearms and explosives.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/09/china.jonathanwatts
If some guy named Ed goes on a shooting rampage at some mall, don't say I didn't warn you, Philip Weiss.
@ Suzanne
"I love how the goobs ignored Marty Belhimer's post. He just kicked your donkey butts something bad with some compelling facts. lol!"
Yeah, really compelling. Anyone else who wants to buy the college administration's cover may do so. I don't think anyone is, including Suzanne and Marty Belhimer. The Feds really give a crap about a gangsters failure to pay income taxes too.
wow! I hadn't heard about that execution in CHina. Horribly ruthless, really. On the other hand, China is talking jihad's language.
I bet the leftwing nitwits here still love China though. Their self-deception is as deep and murky as an endless abyss.
"The vast majority of American's want to aid Israel."
That used to be the case. You Zionists are losing supporters each and every day. Why else are you on this blog? Are you worried, or are you getting paid to post here because someone else is worried? :) I used to be a knee-jerk supporter of Israel too, before I learned of the twits filming and laughing while the WTC came down. I initially assumed the story was part of the usual confused nonsense that gets thrown around at the beginning of every crisis, but unfortunately it turned out to be true. That was a three-alarm wake-up call that everything was not as it seemed. The traditional Zionist narrative is full of holes: let's see you try to make the same claim in ten years.
"It is in our moral self interest."
Please explain why support of colonial gun Zionism is an American moral self interest.
Colin, We are getting paid. We are also keeping Philip out of work. You are still a jerk. Perhaps your knees don't work because of advanced age?
I can not explain why anyone, including zionists, would want to support colonial gun anything. Perhaps your emotional baggage is preventing you from using realistic terms. If I want to debate a baboon, I'll debate Joachim.
Chris Berel, we all know you are a childish ignoramus. A very redundant one. Boring. You? Debating Joachim? LOL. We've seen you doing it so far. Have another bite of banana.