Olmert threatens ‘fierce and disproportionate’ force. I.e., they know Gaza was ‘disproportionate’ too

Israel/PalestineUS Politics
on 18 Comments

AC writes:

The post about unbounded optimism wasn't a challenge to you [as Weiss framed it in posting it: AC accuses me of deluded optimism in believing in a sea change"] . It was a challenge to all the thinking that is
completely divorced from reality, from "facts on the ground," if you
like. What it was advocating is hope, which, unlike pure optimism, is
grounded in the wearisome history and the bleakness and reality of the
moment but trusts that it may not be permanent. Unbound optimism or
Panglossianism often features the latter characteristic but lacks the
former, and is therefore unrealistic, or deluded as you put it.
more, that is not to say that one should abandon hope. To do so is
fatal. Hope is the lifeblood of humanity. Regard the Palestinians, who,
despite everything, and intimately knowledgeable of, nay, living all
the horrors that comprise their wretched existence, conduct themselves
with sobriety and dignity that to an outsider appears incomprehensible
and carry a hope that it shall all come to pass. One must acknowledge
Sisyphus and his tortuous task as one labors up and down the mountain
with him, but not capitulate as he has done. Camus says otherwise, but
the Palestinians just might disagree.

P.S. A little girl, one of the few survivors of the Samouni family's bloody fate, walks the viewer
through what remains of her neighborhood and explains what happened to
her family. There's more humanity and truth in what this little girl
says towards the end of the clip about Israeli actions and objectives
than in all Israeli government spokesmen and defenders of Israel combined.

And while Palestinians are still bleeding from their last beating,
the kindly Olmert, the one who led the reeducation of the Lebanese in
2006, in order to save them from themselves, naturally, the one who
lovingly declared,

"I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to reiterate the pain of the
State of Israel and its sorrow and that of its soldiers for the loss of
civilian life among the citizens of Gaza who were not involved in
terror and served as hostages for the murders of Hamas.  We did not
fight against them; we did not wish to harm them or their children or
their parents or their siblings. On behalf of the State and Government
of Israel, I convey our profound regret for these victims,"

today threatens, in a brotherly fashion, of course, a "fierce and disproportionate"
response [link is also here] if the Palestinians fire rockets. For those who brush this
aside as electioneering (but if it was, since when does what a
candidate says before an election not matter?) Olmert is not running for

No one believed for a second that Israel's response was
proportionate or just, not even the spokesman of the Israeli PM or the
spokeswoman of the IDF, who incessantly said so and leapt with great
fight at anyone who thought differently. No one believed it. And
Olmert's threat is hardly a revelation, either for the casual observer
or the learned student. Indeed, the Israelis developed such a response
and embraced it; they even named it, the "Dahiya Doctrine," (in this piece saying that Israel "plans to use disproportionate force in next war") referring to the suburb of Beirut brimming with civilians which Israel bombed with no regard and steady resolve in 2006.

18 Responses

  1. Crimson Ghost
    February 1, 2009, 11:01 am

    When israel talks about "disproportionate" force this means the massacre of civilians and the destruction of their infrastructure.

    Let us call spade a spade.

  2. chris berel
    February 1, 2009, 11:33 am

    I'm not quite certain why you believe a criminal element gets to define the limits of the response to their crime.

    No nation allows a rebellion a say in their punishment or a limit in the response to that rebellion. World opinion, as already showcased in Durban, is justfully ignored by Israel.

  3. D.
    February 1, 2009, 11:46 am

    Most of the people reading this site (although not Richard Witty) are familiar with the story of Iman al-Hams.

    Well, it turns out that the commander who was eventually acquitted of any wrongdoing in that case (and eventually given compensation) was from the Givati Brigade, the same brigade responsible for the recent alleged atrocities in Zeitoun and one with a bit of a reputation for the new "muscular Judaism."

    What hasn't been emphasized is the possible role of revenge in both incidents.The Givati Brigade lost eleven men to fighters in Zeitoun in 2004 when two of its armored personnel carriers were destroyed. The Times asks why were they sent back in to the same place this time. Said one soldier, "Revenge is our first impulse."

  4. Rowan
    February 1, 2009, 11:54 am

    Barak is still going on and on about "painful blows". I assume this is the english translation of the hebrew "pigua", which used only to be used about bombings against Jews.

  5. anne frank
    February 1, 2009, 12:07 pm

    Yeah, that 10-year-old Mona Samouni, the criminal little rebel, the nerve of her, eh chris berel?

  6. chris berel
    February 1, 2009, 12:10 pm

    I have no idea why you wish to imply that some child is the auther of the Palestinian Political Thought.

    However, if you wish to portray the Palestinians as a child-like people, you do so with others laughing at you.

  7. chris berel
    February 1, 2009, 12:13 pm

    D., I understand the the leader of that particular group was a Muslim. Is that not so?

  8. Colin Murray
    February 1, 2009, 2:09 pm

    from ANALYSIS / IDF plans to use disproportionate force in next war

    "People won't be going to the beach in Beirut while Haifa residents are in shelters," [Major General (Res.) Giora Eiland] writes.

    One can easily imagine Hamas saying "People won't be going to the beach in Haifa while residents of Gaza City are under starvation blockade".

    Gen. Eiland's stunningly arrogant self-involved claptrap seems designed to ensure that when the boot is on the other foot, neither fire nor sword will be spared. The Israeli decision to take the path of the mad-dog will be accompanied by ever-more hollow and insincere expressions of sympathy from the West, afraid to speak the truth, but not too blind not to see it.

  9. Crimson Ghost
    February 1, 2009, 2:24 pm

    The Nazis often murdered 10 civilians for every German soldier killed by "terrorists" They shot some 355 Italians in 1944 in reprisal for the killing of 38 German soldiers in Rome by the "terrorists"

    But the Nazis were babes in the woods when compared to Israel on these matters. Blood-crazed Zionist fanatics demand 100 or even 1000 Palestinians be killed for every Israeli.

    In 1942 the Nazis wiped out the Czech village of Lidice killing several hundred people in reprisal for the assassination of SS big wig Reinhard Heydrich. If the Palestinians were to succeed in killing a top Israeli official, I suspect that Zionist reprisals would again put the Nazis to shame unless vetoed by the US.

  10. anne frank
    February 1, 2009, 2:30 pm

    Phil exquisitely captures chris berel's take on the little girl in the clip provided above: "There's more humanity and truth in what this little girl says towards the end of the clip about Israeli actions and objectives than in all Israeli government spokesmen and defenders of Israel combined."

  11. Eva Smagacz
    February 1, 2009, 2:54 pm

    In my are of Poland the ratio was 1 to 50. One German killed, 50 people rounded at random, and killed in the village square.

    It does come down to the fact that Palestinians are not perceived as human by Israelis.

  12. Duscany
    February 1, 2009, 3:03 pm

    If your only complaint about Israel's attack on Gaza is that it was "disproportionate" then you are basically accepting the idea that Israel had a right to attack Gaza in the first place. If Israel didn't blockade the Palestinian borders, take its water, shoot is leaders, steal its houses, cut down its olive groves, and otherwise try to destroy its economy, no one would be firing homemade rockets into Israel. The Palestinians would be too busy building houses, feeding their families and otherwise living their lives.

    People who still dream of a better life don't fire rockets on the ill-tempered regional superpower next door. If Israel wants to know why the Palestinians keep firing rockets at them it ought to look in the mirror sometime.

  13. Ana Sanchez
    February 1, 2009, 3:25 pm

    I read this blog because with a media that is saturated by zionist propaganda, this blog gives me hope that truth will prevail and we can find our way out of the darkness.
    Human beings need hope to live, just as much as they need air or water.
    Let's remember what St.Agustine said about hope many years ago: "Hope has two beautiful daughters. The first is Anger at the way things are and the second is Courage to make things the way they should be."
    Most of us share the anger on a primal level; it comes through loud and clear on this blog. We need to focus on Hope's second daughter if we are to make a difference.

  14. John Lewis-Dickerson
    February 1, 2009, 3:32 pm

    "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."

    At the funeral in Israel of Baruch Goldstein, the American-born Jewish settler who killed at least 29 Muslims at prayer on Feb. 23, 1994, Rabbi Yaacov Perin declared: “One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.”

  15. chris berel
    February 1, 2009, 6:55 pm

    Are you stating that that is the official Israli government opinion?

    Are you stating that that is the Israeli public opinion?

    Or are you admitting that that is the opinion of one radical Rabbi and it is not shared by 1/10th of 1% of the Israeli people?

    Are you stating such to increase the amount of antisemitism already present in the forum?

    Is the truth part of your lexicon or is your agenda too much for you to handle the truth?

  16. Sam
    February 1, 2009, 9:25 pm

    >> Or are you admitting that that is the opinion of one radical Rabbi and it is not shared by 1/10th of 1% of the Israeli people?

    Are you stating such to increase the amount of antisemitism already present in the forum?

    Baruch Goldstein is a folk hero amongst a substantial swath of Israel society. His funeral was attended by the who's who of the political elite. And even now his grave remains a magnet for the fanatical right.

    But of course, I am sure, Chris, you go troll on extremist Kach sites protesting against this sort of fanticism, yes? Becuase you care about terrorism, yes? No, nothing two-faced here. Move along…

    [Quick note on math: it says below that Goldstein's tomb has been visitied by 10,000 people — which is twice "1/10th of 1% of [Jewish] Israeli people" Of course, the following is likely far greater than those who actually go so far as to visit the guy's tomb….]]

    Militant Jews have gathered at the grave of Baruch Goldstein to celebrate the sixth anniversary of his massacre of Muslim worshippers in Hebron.

    The celebrants dressed up as the gunman, wearing army uniforms, doctor's coats and fake beards.

    Graveside party
    Israeli settlers read prays at the grave
    Goldstein, an immigrant from New York City, had been a physician in the Jewish settlement of Kiryat Arba.

    Waving semi-automatic weapons in the air, the celebrants danced, sang and read prayers around his grave.

    "We decided to make a big party on the day he was murdered by Arabs," said Baruch Marzel, one of about 40 celebrants.

    The tribute was a macabre twist on the Jewish festival of Purim, when it is a custom to dress in costume and celebrate.

    Massacre in mosque

    In 1994 on Purim, Goldstein stormed a mosque and fired on praying Muslims in the West Bank city's Tomb of the Patriarchs – a shrine sacred to both Muslims and Jews.

    Twenty-nine people died in the attack, and the angry crowd lynched Goldstein in retaliation.

    Israeli extremists continue to pay homage at his grave in the nearby Jewish settlement of Kiryat Arba, where a marble plaque reads: "To the holy Baruch Goldstein, who gave his life for the Jewish people, the Torah and the nation of Israel."

    About 10,000 people had visited the grave since the massacre, Mr Marzel said.

    link to news.bbc.co.uk

  17. Thom
    February 1, 2009, 11:59 pm

    Let's see, we are getting a nice round number from one of the lunatics who support the guy. Is it just possible he pulled the number out of his ass?

    Is there a list of names somewhere, or is this like the statistic that the 600 million people (twice the U.S. population) flies on U.S. airlines every year.

    In other words, even if the number wasn't just entirely made up, is that 10,000 counting the same people over and over?

  18. chris berel
    February 2, 2009, 12:04 am

    10,000. Or 1000 ten times each. Better yet, 1/2 came out of sheer curiosity and wonder why such an idiot did what he did. The other half are actually 375 people who have gone on the anniversity 14 times. Still a shanda.

Leave a Reply