Comments on: ‘Israel is using the memory of my grandfather gassed in Treblinka to justify abominations toward Palestinians’ http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 09:59:01 +0000 hourly 1 By: Chris Berel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33085 Chris Berel Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33085 <p>Very strange. Perhaps Braitburg feels that his grandfather died for the right of all people to kill Jews with impunity. Perhaps Braitburg thought Yad Vashem should be a lesson to all that the Jews are the easiest victims on earth.</p> <p>Seems Braitburg was wrong. If there is a heaven, and Braitburg's grandfather is there, and even cares what Braitburg is doing, would he just tell him to piss off?</p> <p>In a just world, he would.</p> Very strange. Perhaps Braitburg feels that his grandfather died for the right of all people to kill Jews with impunity. Perhaps Braitburg thought Yad Vashem should be a lesson to all that the Jews are the easiest victims on earth.

Seems Braitburg was wrong. If there is a heaven, and Braitburg's grandfather is there, and even cares what Braitburg is doing, would he just tell him to piss off?

In a just world, he would.

]]> By: roy belmont http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33086 roy belmont Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33086 <p>Evidently Chris Berel is concerned that irrational and undeserved prejudice is skewing the current debate about Israeli/Jewish activity, with many accusations that frantic Israeli/Jewish self-interest is being seriously detrimental to the larger community. <br /> Chris Berel's solution to this problem is to dominate the discussion threads at Mondoweiss with venomous scorn and dishonest argument.<br /> Some of us are beginning to wonder if we have more to fear from Israeli/Jewish incompetence than Israeli/Jewish control conspiracies.</p> Evidently Chris Berel is concerned that irrational and undeserved prejudice is skewing the current debate about Israeli/Jewish activity, with many accusations that frantic Israeli/Jewish self-interest is being seriously detrimental to the larger community.
Chris Berel's solution to this problem is to dominate the discussion threads at Mondoweiss with venomous scorn and dishonest argument.
Some of us are beginning to wonder if we have more to fear from Israeli/Jewish incompetence than Israeli/Jewish control conspiracies.

]]> By: MRW. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33087 MRW. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33087 <p>For those who are new to Mondoweiss, Thom, Suzanne, Chris Berel, and Eurosabra are our resident trolls.<br /> </p> For those who are new to Mondoweiss, Thom, Suzanne, Chris Berel, and Eurosabra are our resident trolls.

]]> By: tree http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33088 tree Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33088 <p>Chris Berel is just a bigot. He justifies his bigotry, like many bigots do, by continuously claiming that his group is being seriously threatened by those whom he is bigoted against.</p> <p> He reminds me of a fellow who dropped in on a public discussion in LA with a human rights attorney from Israel. The discussion was held by a local group which counted both Arab-Americans(including Palestinian-Americans) and American Jews in its membership, as well as including some ex-pat Israelis Most of these people had been friends and associates for over a decade.</p> <p>But this fellow, who lived part-time in the US and part-time in a settlement in the West Bank, felt safe enough in this group to declare that he thought all Arabs should die, supposedly because he thought that all Arabs wanted him dead. But his insistance that all Arabs wanted him dead made no sense, and was really only a sad and idiotic justification for his own bigotry. To him, it was OK that he hated because he could rationalize that he only hated those who hated him, even though that group that supposedly hated him included millions of people he never knew and who had no animus towards him at all. In his mind every Arab was the same, and anyone who criticized his viewpoint must also want him dead. I surmise that he would have found it harder to live with his own callousness and hatred if he couldn't pretend that his hatred was not of his own making.</p> <p>Chris Berel is very similar to that man. He feels that he can spew all sorts of racist bile because he's only "returning" hatred, because, in his mind, so many people hate Jews "because they are Jews". If you follow his comments you will see that he is constantly asserting without foundation that anyone who disagrees with him wants to kill Jews. His insistence that there is a mainstream genocidal anti-semitism is simply a part and parcel of his bigotry. Its a fascinating study in the psychology of racism and its "justifications". </p> <p>As for Braitburg, I say he's someone who understands that the Holocaust should not be used as a justification for the mistreatment of any ethnic group. "Never again" should be a universal cry. Injustice is injustice no matter who is the perpetrator. <br /> </p> Chris Berel is just a bigot. He justifies his bigotry, like many bigots do, by continuously claiming that his group is being seriously threatened by those whom he is bigoted against.

He reminds me of a fellow who dropped in on a public discussion in LA with a human rights attorney from Israel. The discussion was held by a local group which counted both Arab-Americans(including Palestinian-Americans) and American Jews in its membership, as well as including some ex-pat Israelis Most of these people had been friends and associates for over a decade.

But this fellow, who lived part-time in the US and part-time in a settlement in the West Bank, felt safe enough in this group to declare that he thought all Arabs should die, supposedly because he thought that all Arabs wanted him dead. But his insistance that all Arabs wanted him dead made no sense, and was really only a sad and idiotic justification for his own bigotry. To him, it was OK that he hated because he could rationalize that he only hated those who hated him, even though that group that supposedly hated him included millions of people he never knew and who had no animus towards him at all. In his mind every Arab was the same, and anyone who criticized his viewpoint must also want him dead. I surmise that he would have found it harder to live with his own callousness and hatred if he couldn't pretend that his hatred was not of his own making.

Chris Berel is very similar to that man. He feels that he can spew all sorts of racist bile because he's only "returning" hatred, because, in his mind, so many people hate Jews "because they are Jews". If you follow his comments you will see that he is constantly asserting without foundation that anyone who disagrees with him wants to kill Jews. His insistence that there is a mainstream genocidal anti-semitism is simply a part and parcel of his bigotry. Its a fascinating study in the psychology of racism and its "justifications".

As for Braitburg, I say he's someone who understands that the Holocaust should not be used as a justification for the mistreatment of any ethnic group. "Never again" should be a universal cry. Injustice is injustice no matter who is the perpetrator.

]]> By: chris berel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33089 chris berel Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33089 <p>Except Israel is not using the holocaust as justification of the mistreatment, if any, of the typical palestinian.</p> <p>Israel uses the holocaust to justify the quite legal law of return for all Jews.</p> <p>Never again will there be no refuge for the Jews when a holocaust threatens.</p> <p>If Braitburg wishes to commit suicide so that he no longer need worry, that's up to him.</p> <p><b>Weiss' comment regarding those that oppose his bigotry are trolls will just have to be unanswered. Dealing with Philip regarding his racism is like dealing with Rowan and Martin.<b></p> Except Israel is not using the holocaust as justification of the mistreatment, if any, of the typical palestinian.

Israel uses the holocaust to justify the quite legal law of return for all Jews.

Never again will there be no refuge for the Jews when a holocaust threatens.

If Braitburg wishes to commit suicide so that he no longer need worry, that's up to him.

Weiss' comment regarding those that oppose his bigotry are trolls will just have to be unanswered. Dealing with Philip regarding his racism is like dealing with Rowan and Martin.

]]> By: dance http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33090 dance Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33090 <p>This was probably the original link:</p> <p>http://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/2009/01/28/effacez-le-nom-de-mon-grand-pere-a-yad-vashem_1147635_%200.html</p> <p>Disappeared from the Net like so many other articles</p> <p>http://business.theage.com.au/business/israelis-are-living-high-on-us-expense-account-20090116-7j82.html</p> This was probably the original link:

http://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/2009/01/28/effacez-le-nom-de-mon-grand-pere-a-yad-vashem_1147635_%200.html

Disappeared from the Net like so many other articles

http://business.theage.com.au/business/israelis-are-living-high-on-us-expense-account-20090116-7j82.html

]]> By: bea http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33091 bea Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33091 <p>Le Monde link is now:<br /> http://www.lemonde.fr/opinions/article/2009/01/28/effacez-le-nom-de-mon-grand-pere-a-yad-vashem_1147635_3232.html?xtref</p> Le Monde link is now:
link to lemonde.fr

]]> By: Braitberg http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33092 Braitberg Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33092 <p>Hi folks,<br /> Sorry for my poor english and thank you for the interest given to my letter.<br /> To un derstand my pint, you must know<br /> 1- That my mother is a french protestant who saved jew during WWII. So I'm not jewish on a religious way.<br /> 2- I'm personnaly an atheist and a materialist. I d'ont believe in a life after death, and I don't even think that ruoi give light to the souls if you whishper their names.<br /> 3 -My grand dad's memory is not my property. He died in a gaz chamber and this was a crime not only against the jews but against humanity.</p> <p>4 - Since 1948 Iszraël cinstantly claimed upon the holocaust to justifie the right to build a jewish state ti put the jews in safe. The problem is taht nowaday, no jews are theratend anywhere in the world except in Israël. Zionim faild, this is obvious. But integration won.</p> <p>5 Only one qurter of the jews live in Israël. 75 % of the jews in teh world live in the so called Galout -diaspora-. Thousands of jews live israël every year to settle in the US, in France, Canada, Australia, and so. But this topic is a kind of tabu.</p> <p>6 I'm not comprehensive at all with the Hamas and others extremists moslims. My only aim is that one day the arabs in the territory of Palestine will have the same rights as the jews in the US or in France.</p> <p>Frindly yours</p> <p>Jean-Moïse Braitberg (and not Braitburg).</p> Hi folks,
Sorry for my poor english and thank you for the interest given to my letter.
To un derstand my pint, you must know
1- That my mother is a french protestant who saved jew during WWII. So I'm not jewish on a religious way.
2- I'm personnaly an atheist and a materialist. I d'ont believe in a life after death, and I don't even think that ruoi give light to the souls if you whishper their names.
3 -My grand dad's memory is not my property. He died in a gaz chamber and this was a crime not only against the jews but against humanity.

4 – Since 1948 Iszraël cinstantly claimed upon the holocaust to justifie the right to build a jewish state ti put the jews in safe. The problem is taht nowaday, no jews are theratend anywhere in the world except in Israël. Zionim faild, this is obvious. But integration won.

5 Only one qurter of the jews live in Israël. 75 % of the jews in teh world live in the so called Galout -diaspora-. Thousands of jews live israël every year to settle in the US, in France, Canada, Australia, and so. But this topic is a kind of tabu.

6 I'm not comprehensive at all with the Hamas and others extremists moslims. My only aim is that one day the arabs in the territory of Palestine will have the same rights as the jews in the US or in France.

Frindly yours

Jean-Moïse Braitberg (and not Braitburg).

]]> By: Thom http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33093 Thom Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33093 <p>@Braitberg</p> <p>Things weren't so bad in the world for Jews in 1928. Ten years later...</p> <p>There have always been periods and places where Jews were not persecuted. The problem is that when these periods end and Jews need to flee, there has to be a place to run.</p> <p>Many Jews were exterminated in WWII because they were returned to the Nazis when they tried to flee to England, to the U.S., to the Middle East. It did them no good that a few years before the persecution was lower. It did them no good that the U.S. didn't persecute Jews (not counting things like institutions banning them from joining). What counted was that they weren't being let in when they needed to be. What counted was they were murdered because they had no place that would take in Jews.</p> <p>BTW, many of the Jews murdered in WWII were assimilated. They were integrated into German society and considered themselves German. That didn't stop the Jew haters from murdering them for being Jewish.</p> <p>"Never again" doesn't just mean never will there be another holocaust. It means that there will never be a world in which Jews can be exterminated without anyplace to run.</p> <p>The Arab citizens in Israel have the same rights as the Jewish citizens of Israel (though fewer obligations, the Jews are required to serve in the military or alternate service, the Arabs can volunteer, but are not required to serve).</p> <p>The Arabs in Palestine (if the country is ever founded) will not have the same rights as anyone in the U.S. or France because the Palestinians will not allow it. Try being a gay Palestinian and see how many rights you have.</p> @Braitberg

Things weren't so bad in the world for Jews in 1928. Ten years later…

There have always been periods and places where Jews were not persecuted. The problem is that when these periods end and Jews need to flee, there has to be a place to run.

Many Jews were exterminated in WWII because they were returned to the Nazis when they tried to flee to England, to the U.S., to the Middle East. It did them no good that a few years before the persecution was lower. It did them no good that the U.S. didn't persecute Jews (not counting things like institutions banning them from joining). What counted was that they weren't being let in when they needed to be. What counted was they were murdered because they had no place that would take in Jews.

BTW, many of the Jews murdered in WWII were assimilated. They were integrated into German society and considered themselves German. That didn't stop the Jew haters from murdering them for being Jewish.

"Never again" doesn't just mean never will there be another holocaust. It means that there will never be a world in which Jews can be exterminated without anyplace to run.

The Arab citizens in Israel have the same rights as the Jewish citizens of Israel (though fewer obligations, the Jews are required to serve in the military or alternate service, the Arabs can volunteer, but are not required to serve).

The Arabs in Palestine (if the country is ever founded) will not have the same rights as anyone in the U.S. or France because the Palestinians will not allow it. Try being a gay Palestinian and see how many rights you have.

]]> By: Juan Valdez http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html/comment-page-1#comment-33094 Juan Valdez Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/09/israel-is-using-the-memory-of-my-grandfather-gassed-in-treblinka-to-justify-abominations-toward-pale.html#comment-33094 <p>Israel bombed concentration camp Gaza to kill and injure inmates, however, as shown on Air Photo Evidence, American and British planes didn't bomb Auschwitz during WW2 because bombs would kill and injure inmates, and their own study showed inmates were being well treated. </p> Israel bombed concentration camp Gaza to kill and injure inmates, however, as shown on Air Photo Evidence, American and British planes didn't bomb Auschwitz during WW2 because bombs would kill and injure inmates, and their own study showed inmates were being well treated.

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